I will die on the hill that if they just leave him in front, don't put him on a half wall (on the WRONG wall yet) QB role he is ill-suited for, let others do that, and let him play the Simmonds role on the PP2, he will score more on the PP. That's his skill set. Ryan (frank)ing White did it last year and was OK. It's not a role that demands the best PP player.
- Mononoke

Hatcher was put there for a few games years ago. Actually got a goal or two if I can remember correctly.

I will die on the hill that if they just leave him in front, don't put him on a half wall (on the WRONG wall yet) QB role he is ill-suited for, let others do that, and let him play the Simmonds role on the PP2, he will score more on the PP. That's his skill set. Ryan (frank)ing White did it last year and was OK. It's not a role that demands the best PP player.
- Mononoke

I'd be fine with giving him a shot at that. I still don't think that will elevate his point production to a point that would satisfy the idiots though.

Hatcher was put there for a few games years ago. Actually got a goal or two if I can remember correctly.
- flyer_nutter

Couturier's strengths: big, good at puck retrievals, intelligent, scores most of his goals in tight, not the quickest feet..........so where do we put him, Joe Mullen? We put him for years in the Giroux spot, and even try him at the point to blast one timers. What the (frank)?

Exactly. If he was a normal top PP guy, he'd get 50-60 points each year and everyone would be satisfied (except 2real) with his production.

I'm not going to pretend that Couturier is a good PP player because he's not, but he's one of the 3 best players for the other 55 minutes each night.
- PhillySportsGuy

The fact that the majority of the time it seems like he is in the other teams zone with the puck, he at least passes the eye test.....lol

Over the last 3 years combined, Couturier leads all Flyer forwards in 5v5 goal differential
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not arguing. Just stating a case in general, not dissing Couturier.

And well know that special teams goals don't matter.

I'm not arguing. Just stating a case in general, not dissing Couturier.

And well know that special teams goals don't matter.
- jmatchett383

Not short handed goals anyway.

I'd be fine with giving him a shot at that. I still don't think that will elevate his point production to a point that would satisfy the idiots though.
- PhillySportsGuy

Every linemate does better with Couturier than without, including our star ones. It's not even close either. They score significantly more with him. You don't have to make the highlight play to affect a goal. And Couturier scores even more than they do 5v5 anyway over the last couple seasons. There really is no reason they shouldn't just give him Jake and Konecny again and call that the real top line. It scores at a top line rate, it has all the best 5v5 scorers and players, it faces top lines, so.....yeah, cut the poop.

Then he could probably get his 30-35 points a year at ES. His PP scoring has undoubtedly been putrid over the years, but so has the entire PP2 unit. It's not like TK and Provy are lighting it up either. There were systemic issues. Maybe they're being fixed now. So, scoring 10 points sounds fair. If he ends up a 40-45 guy capable of scoring 50 points in a peak year, while being elite defensively and overall our best 5v5 center, sounds fine to me. But "2Cs," whatever that means, have to score 60 points and context means nothing so, tough, I guess!

Every linemate does better with Couturier than without, including our star ones. There really is no reason they shouldn't just give him Jake and Weal/Konecny and call that the real top line. It scores at a top line rate, it has all the best 5v5 scorers and players, it faces top lines, so.....yeah, cut the poop.

Then he could probably get his 30-35 points a year at ES. His PP scoring has undoubtedly been putrid over the years, but so has the entire PP2 unit. It's not like TK and Provy are lighting it up either. There were systemic issues. Maybe they're being fixed now. So, scoring 10 points sounds fair. If he ends up a 40-45 guy capable of scoring 50 points in a peak year, while being elite defensively and overall our best 5v5 center, sounds fine to me. But "2Cs," whatever that means, have to score 60 points and context means nothing so, tough, I guess!
- Mononoke

I'll call it here.

A 50 point year from a top line C. I'd hope for more personally. 50 in a peak year, and 40-45 average? Raise those standards brah.

Goals.

I'll call it here.

A 50 point year from a top line C. I'd hope for more personally.
- flyer_nutter

CONTEXT!!!!!!



He will never play on the top PP. He can be top line 5v5, while not being a true "1C." His scoring will always be capped. Just like Provorov's if Ghost/Sanheim play there over him. Usage matters. If you never get top PP minutes, you'll most likely never score more than 40-50. That's reality. We already have an elite PP center in Giroux anyway, so if we have elite 5v5 centers, that works. The goal is to get ~150+ points all situations between your top 3 centers as a contender. You can do that with 80, 40, 30.....you can do that with 60, 60, 30....you can do that with 60, 45, 45. Flyers will hopefully be able to roll 3 very good centers, with a middle 6 better than other teams, and the latter sounds a possibility with this team, now and going forward.

Every linemate does better with Couturier than without, including our star ones. It's not even close either. They score significantly more with him. You don't have to make the highlight play to affect a goal. And Couturier scores even more than they do 5v5 anyway over the last couple seasons. There really is no reason they shouldn't just give him Jake and Konecny again and call that the real top line. It scores at a top line rate, it has all the best 5v5 scorers and players, it faces top lines, so.....yeah, cut the poop.

Then he could probably get his 30-35 points a year at ES. His PP scoring has undoubtedly been putrid over the years, but so has the entire PP2 unit. It's not like TK and Provy are lighting it up either. There were systemic issues. Maybe they're being fixed now. So, scoring 10 points sounds fair. If he ends up a 40-45 guy capable of scoring 50 points in a peak year, while being elite defensively and overall our best 5v5 center, sounds fine to me. But "2Cs," whatever that means, have to score 60 points and context means nothing so, tough, I guess!
- Mononoke

Do you think MacKinnon could be a realistic target or no?

Do you think MacKinnon could be a realistic target or no?
- PhillySportsGuy

What lol?

What lol?
- Mononoke

I'm all over the place

Goals.
- flyer_nutter

Couturier is 1 goal behind Simmer in 5v5 scoring. He's missed 16 games.

I'm all over the place
- PhillySportsGuy

No, I think Colorado is hoping to build around him and their future top 2 pick potentially. It's probably smart of them to hold onto Duchene first until they know if they can even get one of Hischier/Patrick. But it seems like Duchene is odd man out and Mac is who they want to keep.

Honestly though? I don't think MacKinnon is a great center. Like he's an elite talent, but I'm not sold he wouldn't be better on the wing and an elite winger. Same for Duchene, face-offs aside. They're kind of just center/winger tweeners to me. It's funny. Colorado had all those "centers," and they traded their actual real center in Ryan O'Reilly.

Dave Hakstol sucks

No, I think Colorado is hoping to build around him and their future top 2 pick potentially. It's probably smart of them to hold onto Duchene first until they know if they can even get one of Hischier/Patrick. But it seems like Duchene is odd man out and Mac is who they want to keep.

Honestly though? I don't think MacKinnon is a great center. Like he's an elite talent, but I'm not sold he wouldn't be better on the wing and an elite winger. Same for Duchene, face-offs aside. They're kind of just center/winger tweeners to me. It's funny. Colorado had all those "centers," and they traded their actual real center in O'Reilly.
- Mononoke

Yeah, I'm just trying to think of guys that could potentially be gotten in a trade that could develop into the guy we're looking for. Can you think of any others? We're talking about age 22 or younger.

Couturier is 1 goal behind Simmer in 5v5 scoring. He's missed 16 games.
- Mononoke

Knew you weren't as hip as you seem.

Goals. As in #goals.

Yeah, I'm just trying to think of guys that could potentially be gotten in a trade that could develop into the guy we're looking for. Can you think of any others? We're talking about age 22 or younger.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ltiasiard Noel.

The dream lives.

Connor from Winnipeg is a winger but I'd have interest.

Yeah, I'm just trying to think of guys that could potentially be gotten in a trade that could develop into the guy we're looking for. Can you think of any others? We're talking about age 22 or younger.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well, MacKinnon would cost a metric ton even if he were available and what we wanted. I have floated my Barzal idea plenty. I really can't think of many options.

I just don't think you can really acquire what you want without difficulty. It either has to be a prospect with ? marks or a high pick because any proven or truly elite prospect commodity isn't for sale. A lot of the names people list around here as "1C prospects" are probably just guys with the same old 40-50 point 2C potential. Some player will inevitably surprise, but pinning that player down is luck based. Are they any better than Rubtsov? is the question I ask.

It's why I wanted that top 5-10 pick instead of this dubious and pointless playoff chase (lowest we can realistically go is 10-11 now), but maybe we can trade up if they target someone. Hexy has surprisingly tried to trade up for a top pick in almost every draft. Ekblad....Provorov at #3 with the Zona pick....he's thought about it before, even if for naught. Maybe they really try to target someone they like because they're not finishing this low again, I don't believe. I could see them loving Vilardi. If a team like Arizona or Vancouver or Dallas doesn't finish top 2, maybe those are logical trade partners.

Knew you weren't as hip as you seem.

Goals. As in #goals.
- flyer_nutter

Ok, well I already answered all that in the other post

Ok, well I already answered all that in the other post
- Mononoke

There is this thing where you see a couple doing something cute or whatever, or someone with something you want.

You say 'goals' to acknowledge that. 'Relationship goals' as an example.

There is this thing where you see a couple doing something cute or whatever, or someone with something you want.

You say 'goals' to acknowledge that. 'Relationship goals' as an example.


- flyer_nutter

Holy (frank)

I get it. I get it. I'm saying I answered all that 40-50 point stuff already!

Holy (frank)

I get it. I get it. I'm saying I answered all that 40-50 point stuff already!
- Mononoke

Yeah I basically ignored the majority of that post sir.

Yeah I basically ignored the majority of that post sir.
- flyer_nutter

Serves me right

Well, MacKinnon would cost a metric ton even if he were available and what we wanted. I have floated my Barzal idea plenty. I really can't think of many options.

I just don't think you can really acquire what you want without difficulty. It either has to be a prospect with ? marks or a high pick because any proven or truly elite prospect commodity isn't for sale. A lot of the names people list around here as "1C prospects" are probably just guys with the same old 40-50 point 2C potential. Some player will inevitably surprise, but pinning that player down is luck based.

It's why I wanted that top 5-10 pick instead of this dubious and pointless playoff chase (lowest we can realistically go is 10-11 now), but maybe we can trade up if they target someone. Hexy has surprisingly tried to trade up for a top pick in almost every draft. Ekblad....Provorov at #3 with the Zona pick....he's thought about it before, even if for naught. Maybe they really try to target someone they like because they're not finishing this low again, I don't believe. I could see them loving Vilardi. If a team like Arizona or Vancouver or Dallas doesn't finish top 2, maybe those are trade partners.
- Mononoke

It just seems so weird that he'd acquire Filppula and sell very little at the deadline then go ahead and trade assets to move up 5-10 spots. It's like why not just tank and get that pick?

I do worry that the young players will come quick and begin to make an impact leaving the Flyers in a position where they just never acquire that top young forward. I just don't want to see them floundering around in the playoffs like the Blues because they don't have that top forward who can score against elite teams.