Players aren't dumb. They know when they are being set up for failure. Its like hey I want you to go kill the enemy here's a gun with no bullets go out to the battle field. Not a learning experience when it's a slaughter. There is a fine line here. Give opportunity with support to learn and try to win. Over sending them out to be cannon fodder.
- Nuck4U

Reports are they are playing hurt, thats why I am suggesting it. I dont condone benching Miller the rest of the year as he is perfectly healthy and deserves to prove his worth for his next contract. Tanev hasn't been healthy and there are rumours a few other vets arent 100%, in those cases I would sit them

You're mistaken in that you think players tank, they don't, mangers tank by putting a less than ideal team on the ice thereby giving them a below average chance of winning.

Players are competitive, as a general statement, they always play to win the game.
- LeftCoaster

Don't think so. Players are not stupid. They know if management is setting them up for failure. Not much try or learning in that.

Management is at fault but after losing for such period of times the players will mail it in as well which makes it worse.....being an Oilers fan I have seen it over the course of ten years....losing cultures do exist and others see it....no one wants to play for a loser so it hurts you during the free agency period and other GMs love taking advantage (see Hall, Taylor)....I hate it when people use us as an example because today after ten years we might be reaping some kind of reward....we should be the example of what not to do.....rebuilds shouldnt take a decade
- RatedR80

Yes 10 years is a long time but boy did you guys fill your cupboards. After a 10 year cycle you would hope that your team is cup competitive but you guys might be only two or three seasons away from that. So you are a little behind schedule but the next 5 seasons will make you forget about all those bad years.

I don't buy the mailing it in thingy. All players do that towards the end of the season anyway. Even if they are playoff bound or not. During the regular season too. To be your best 82 games a year is too much to ask.

I don't care about free agency anymore. Overvalued and overpaid. It's the draft or bust these days baby!

Don't think so. Players are not stupid. They know if management is setting them up for failure. Not much try or learning in that.
- Nuck4U

Depends if they are an opportunist or not.

Do you think Chaput is thinking "(frank) me, I have to play 18 minutes tonight with the Sedin's? I am in over my head here and going to be exposed" or do you think he is going to think "(frank) yeah, I am going to play my hardest to show I can play top 6 and put up points"

They don't need too. Should be pick this year and a high pick next season will be replacing it. Them and Dahlen, Goldy, Boeser should help compliment.
- manvanfan

Then you agree with me. Draft speed and skill with your first overall.

Don't think so. Players are not stupid. They know if management is setting them up for failure. Not much try or learning in that.
- Nuck4U

Your opinion on this leads me to believe you don't understand the mental makeup of a high level athlete, and, that you've never played sports at any competitive level. So I won't debate the point with you.

Reports are they are playing hurt, thats why I am suggesting it. I dont condone benching Miller the rest of the year as he is perfectly healthy and deserves to prove his worth for his next contract. Tanev hasn't been healthy and there are rumours a few other vets arent 100%, in those cases I would sit them
- WhiteLie

If someone is hurt like LE. Fine. But Tanev was just sick. He sat out. WD debunked the rumors on Tanev and Sutter saying they were not injured. Maybe it's Edler? He might sit if Guddy is good to go I hear.

IF Markus Granlund keeps his pace through next season. Van is going to be paying him somewhere around 3.5 a season. Reason not to burn a year of Boeser's ELC. Wait for OJ another year.

Gonna add my two cents to this 'winning/losing cluture' thing. I think it's definitely something that can linger and be bred, but at this point of the season I don't think it's going to effect much. May as well get prepped and see what you have for next year: shutting people down, trying more ice time for the kids, etc.

This is hearsay, but friends who are friends with some of the younger Edmonton guys from their initial rebuild (Erberle, Hall, etc.) have been told stories about how when they came onto the team the older guys were so happy to get out and party and live it up with the new guys. I mean, in Edmonton they were the talk of the town, so drinks and girls aplenty. Of course they competed to win in the games, but afterwards it didn't matter and they'd head out on the town. Once the older guys retired (Smyth et al) and the young guys were supposed to step up, they realized they wasted a few years dinking around not really caring, and that mentality and culture was hard to flush out. Makes sense in terms of Eakins and Hall and all the turnover they've had... take it for what it's worth.

Then you agree with me. Draft speed and skill with your first overall.
- bloatedmosquito

Hischier isn't a "small" player. He probably has the most speed among Patrick and Middlestadt. The least physical though.

Patrick is probably the best defensively and is the best along the boards.

Middlestadt looks like the middle of both. He looks like he can really shoot the puck. Quick and strong on the puck.

Patrick and Middlestadt are my preference over Hischier. It is hard to judge Middlestadt though because of the competition he has played against.

Will see how he does in the u-18s in the summer.

Gonna add my two cents to this 'winning/losing cluture' thing. I think it's definitely something that can linger and be bred, but at this point of the season I don't think it's going to effect much. May as well get prepped and see what you have for next year: shutting people down, trying more ice time for the kids, etc.

This is hearsay, but friends who are friends with some of the younger Edmonton guys from their initial rebuild (Erberle, Hall, etc.) have been told stories about how when they came onto the team the older guys were so happy to get out and party and live it up with the new guys. I mean, in Edmonton they were the talk of the town, so drinks and girls aplenty. Of course they competed to win in the games, but afterwards it didn't matter and they'd head out on the town. Once the older guys retired (Smyth et al) and the young guys were supposed to step up, they realized they wasted a few years dinking around not really caring, and that mentality and culture was hard to flush out. Makes sense in terms of Eakins and Hall and all the turnover they've had... take it for what it's worth.
- NewYorkNuck

Is poor behavior the result of culture or just the pitfalls of youth?

Similar but Bert was more playmaker & JV more shooter.
JV has to bring his speed all game & every game.
He has to bang & let ops D he is coming & forcheck.
No nights off
- Nighthawk

Wan't comparing Bert to JV. I was using Bert as an example of a big PF who took a while to actually play like a PF. He was always skilled, but he didn't come into his own & use his size to his advantage until he got here & became the WCE's beastmode.

If someone is hurt like LE. Fine. But Tanev was just sick. He sat out. WD debunked the rumors on Tanev and Sutter saying they were not injured. Maybe it's Edler? He might sit if Guddy is good to go I hear.
- Nuck4U

I take all mystery injury reports/debunks with a grain of salt, I remember a few years back (I think in the Torts year) they said Henrik was totally fine but turned out he was playing with a broken finger and had other ailments despite them being eliminated from the playoffs.

If they are not 100% then they should sit IMO. Guys rehabbing from injury should also be shut down, it would be pointless to rush a comeback for these meaningless games

Hischier isn't a "small" player. He probably has the most speed among Patrick and Middlestadt. The least physical though.

Patrick is probably the best defensively and is the best along the boards.

Middlestadt looks like the middle of both. He looks like he can really shoot the puck. Quick and strong on the puck.

Patrick and Middlestadt are my preference over Hischier. It is hard to judge Middlestadt though because of the competition he has played against.

Will see how he does in the u-18s in the summer.
- manvanfan

Please understand, I don't mean small when I say speed and skill. Many of the big forwards being drafted in the first rounds are very quick.

Your opinion on this leads me to believe you don't understand the mental makeup of a high level athlete, and, that you've never played sports at any competitive level. So I won't debate the point with you.
- LeftCoaster

BS. I have. Why I say that you don't get it. Plus promoting a tanking philosophy is the mental make up of an armchair wannabe. Only someone who hasn't had any experience in competitive sports, pro or otherwise would advocate losing.

As a player you go out and try. No one purposefully gives in and allows themselves to get run over. Also there is a fine line between opportunity to showcase as a youg guy and being set up to fail. As a vet you try but get pissed off more if you are being fed a can of poop.

So with the tanking set up that you think doesn't effect players you got no clue! At the very least there isn't a sense of confidence you can succeed. That seeps into your game and overall team play. It then snowballs. If you know management is sending you out to get embarrassed it just adds to the frustration. So that doesn't help you learn. You just get sick of it all.

Is poor behavior the result of culture or just the pitfalls of youth?
- bloatedmosquito

Both.

I find it cute that all of you try to educate nuck4u but it's a beautiful day out there and it's a waste of time.

Wan't comparing Bert to JV. I was using Bert as an example of a big PF who took a while to actually play like a PF. He was always skilled, but he didn't come into his own & use his size to his advantage until he got here & became the WCE's beastmode.
- DrChristianTroy

I'm still waiting for Joe Thornton to play like a PF. Maybe next season he will come into his own.

Both.
- manvanfan

Wait until those punks get married, the wife will sort them out quick!

Is poor behavior the result of culture or just the pitfalls of youth?
- bloatedmosquito

Not one or the other, I think they feed off each other. Poor culture exacerbates the pitfalls of youth – they need structure and guidance – but I think you need some youth to help keep the culture lively and not grow stale – ie. Torts' comments.

I find it cute that all of you try to educate nuck4u but it's a beautiful day out there and it's a waste of time.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Stop patronizing. I get their views. I don't agree with them. It's cute that you sit on the sidelines and toss grenades.

I'm still waiting for Joe Thornton to play like a PF. Maybe next season he will come into his own.
- bloatedmosquito

Wouldn't hold my breath... As some wise NWA once said, "A B!tch Iz A B!tch"

Please understand, I don't mean small when I say speed and skill. Many of the big forwards being drafted in the first rounds are very quick.
- bloatedmosquito

When I mean small, it's usually playing small. Not going to outmuscle anyone, not going to hit someone in the corner. The Sedin's are 6' 190 but they play small. Even Patrick Kane has double the amount of hits this season as Henrik. Vincent Trocheck is listed 5'10" 176 and he is 53rd in hits in the league this year. He enjoys to get in on the forecheck and at least bump someone. Hischier is a Sedin type.

I know from watching Patrick play that he will go into a corner and hit someone.

Middlestadt from his highlight package, didn't see a lot of plays from in the corner or the boards.

Stop patronizing. I get their views. I don't agree with them. It's cute that you sit on the sidelines and toss grenades.
- Nuck4U

I'm on no sideline, I've been calling for a tank and rebuild since 2013, I'm finally getting what I've (frank)ing wanted for this team and you don't like it, deal with it.

Stop patronizing. I get their views. I don't agree with them. It's cute that you sit on the sidelines and toss grenades.
- Nuck4U

Picnic! Picnic! Picnic!