That's your interpretation. Not what I said. It's simple. You learn from trying to win. It doesn't mean you won't lose or have failures. But the trying is what counts. If you try to lose by tanking what do you learn?
- Nuck4U

The players will always try to win. No question about it, they want to win and play well because they are competitive and they earn more income the better they do. Its not the players that are tanking, its management. The players will always try, and learn through the hardships as you suggest, but management makes winning less likely by sitting out Sutter, Tanev, or whomever else. There is more opportunity to learn there for players not familiar with the roles and if they rise to the challenge then all is good. if they dont, then they learn

Lefty was suggesting tanking hard this season. Compete hard all year, give it your best but when you're out, bow out and help your future. You cannot create or alter a culture over the last 15 games of a season, likewise you cannot create positive momentum for next season either.

Remember how hot Sven finished the year and how cold he started? Or how Etem finished April with 4 goals and 5 points in the last 5 games? Both were positive finishes that didn't affect the next season.

Also for what its worth, this is the new parity NHL no one gets hammered regularly. Even the Avalanche who have been truly awful this year, lead the league in 1-goal game losses suggesting there have been plenty they have been "in"
- WhiteLie

How about Bo's finish. Seemed to do him good for this season. Look we could go on here. The point is the Nucks play their young guys. Win or lose it doesn't matter. The point is they try to learn. As opposed to trying to lose. They will finish near the bottom anyway. The margins for the lotto being what they are the Nucks will have a good shot. I would rather see them climb up in the draw then drop down.

I want JB to draft speed and skill. Someone who can provide a bit of excitement. I miss it.
- bloatedmosquito

Didn't we just picked that up with Goldy. Need another Bo.

I want JB to draft speed and skill. Someone who can provide a bit of excitement. I miss it.
- bloatedmosquito

We could write a whole thesis on this between each other. But simply put. There's a difference. Putting an effort to compete and trying to win. As opposed to never being in a game and getting hammered. The latter develops a culture to lose.
- Nuck4U

What about building perseverance? By your logic someone like Yzerman shouldn't exist because losing only results in creating losers.

I don't think I agree with your theory.

Didn't we just picked that up with Goldy. Need another Bo.
- manvanfan

Goldy isn't top end. Not yet anyway. Plus he can't do it all alone. This teams going to need all the offense it can find over the next 3 years.

What about building perseverance? By your logic someone like Yzerman shouldn't exist because losing only results in creating losers.

I don't think I agree with your theory.
- bloatedmosquito

Read the other posts. It's fleshed out. As long as you try to win you can learn from your failures. If you try to lose you learn nothing.

How about Bo's finish. Seemed to do him good for this season. Look we could go on here. The point is the Nucks play their young guys. Win or lose it doesn't matter. The point is they try to learn. As opposed to trying to lose. They will finish near the bottom anyway. The margins for the lotto being what they are the Nucks will have a good shot. I would rather see them climb up in the draw then drop down.
- Nuck4U

Bo played well all year and continued to improve, like he's done since he started. It wasn't just the last 5-10 games where he became better, he was showing increasing consistency to the flashes of great ability from earlier in the season.

Players wont try to lose, but take out some vets from the lineup and there is an increased chance that happens. More ice time for kids, more learning opportunities and an increased likelihood of a higher draft pick, thats the tanking I want to see at this point

Read the other posts. It's fleshed out. As long as you try to win you can learn from your failures. If you try to lose you learn nothing.
- Nuck4U

But the players aren't doing the tanking. Management is. Most of Edmonton's youth core has experienced many seasons of failures but are now reaping the rewards. Success is going to taste that much better because of those ugly early days.

Goldy isn't top end. Not yet anyway. Plus he can't do it all alone. This teams going to need all the offense it can find over the next 3 years.
- bloatedmosquito

What about BB, Dhalen, Sven, Granlund. Don't they fit in the skill category? Isn't there a need for high end talented, good skating, players with size, aggression and strength to balance things out as well, no?

That's your interpretation. Not what I said. It's simple. You learn from trying to win. It doesn't mean you won't lose or have failures. But the trying is what counts. If you try to lose by tanking what do you learn?
- Nuck4U

You're mistaken in that you think players tank, they don't, mangers tank by putting a less than ideal team on the ice thereby giving them a below average chance of winning.

Players are competitive, as a general statement, they always play to win the game.

Didn't we just picked that up with Goldy. Need another Bo.
- manvanfan

Another question, what do consider Bo to be? Two way forward, scorer, playmaker, a quality player that looks even better because he's surrounded by poop?

But the players aren't doing the tanking. Management is. Most of Edmonton's youth core has experienced many seasons of failures but are now reaping the rewards. Success is going to taste that much better because of those ugly early days.
- bloatedmosquito

But the players aren't doing the tanking. Management is. Most of Edmonton's youth core has experienced many seasons of failures but are now reaping the rewards. Success is going to taste that much better because of those ugly early days.
- bloatedmosquito

I dont get why this is a difficult concept. Players will never tank and will always want to score/win/play better. Last thing they want is a high draft pick coming in to take their ice time. Management doesnt control what happens during games

What about BB, Dhalen, Sven, Granlund. Don't they fit in the skill category? Isn't there a need for high end talented, good skating, players with size, aggression and strength to balance things out as well, no?
- Nuck4U

Maybe but we don't really know what we have in those guys. Plus Sven and granlund will not be replacing the twin's production. This team needs twin-level skill.

You're mistaken in that you think players tank, they don't, mangers tank by putting a less than ideal team on the ice thereby giving them a below average chance of winning.

Players are competitive, as a general statement, they always play to win the game.
- LeftCoaster

I tend to agree with this. How many players has JB given WD to play because of injuries ect. Last 2 seasons have been a revolving door. I don't think any other team in the league has had as many different players play than us.

Bo played well all year and continued to improve, like he's done since he started. It wasn't just the last 5-10 games where he became better, he was showing increasing consistency to the flashes of great ability from earlier in the season.

Players wont try to lose, but take out some vets from the lineup and there is an increased chance that happens. More ice time for kids, more learning opportunities and an increased likelihood of a higher draft pick, thats the tanking I want to see at this point
- WhiteLie

Not many vets now anyway. They did take out Burr and Hansen. What they didn't do was cut the Sedin's ice time and deployment. Played guys like Skille and Megna above younger guys with higher ceilings. Changing that would be nice to see and go from there so younger guys can learn.

Another question, what do consider Bo to be? Two way forward, scorer, playmaker, a quality player that looks even better because he's surrounded by poop?
- bloatedmosquito

Bo is a two way forward that makes other players around him better. Goldy hasn't shown anything yet but Patrick, Hischier, Middlestadt seems to be the top 3.

But the players aren't doing the tanking. Management is. Most of Edmonton's youth core has experienced many seasons of failures but are now reaping the rewards. Success is going to taste that much better because of those ugly early days.
- bloatedmosquito

Management is at fault but after losing for such period of times the players will mail it in as well which makes it worse.....being an Oilers fan I have seen it over the course of ten years....losing cultures do exist and others see it....no one wants to play for a loser so it hurts you during the free agency period and other GMs love taking advantage (see Hall, Taylor)....I hate it when people use us as an example because today after ten years we might be reaping some kind of reward....we should be the example of what not to do.....rebuilds shouldnt take a decade

Maybe but we don't really know what we have in those guys. Plus Sven and granlund will not be replacing the twin's production. This team needs twin-level skill.
- bloatedmosquito

They don't need too. Should be pick this year and a high pick next season will be replacing it. Them and Dahlen, Goldy, Boeser should help compliment.

The players will always try to win. No question about it, they want to win and play well because they are competitive and they earn more income the better they do. Its not the players that are tanking, its management. The players will always try, and learn through the hardships as you suggest, but management makes winning less likely by sitting out Sutter, Tanev, or whomever else. There is more opportunity to learn there for players not familiar with the roles and if they rise to the challenge then all is good. if they dont, then they learn
- WhiteLie

Players aren't dumb. They know when they are being set up for failure. It's like hey I want you to go kill the enemy here's a gun with no bullets go out to the battle field. Not a learning experience when it's a slaughter. There is a fine line here. Give opportunity with support to learn and try to win. Over sending them out to be cannon fodder.

Management is at fault but after losing for such period of times the players will mail it in as well which makes it worse.....being an Oilers fan I have seen it over the course of ten years....losing cultures do exist and others see it....no one wants to play for a loser so it hurts you during the free agency period and other GMs love taking advantage (see Hall, Taylor)....I hate it when people use us as an example because today after ten years we might be reaping some kind of reward....we should be the example of what not to do.....rebuilds shouldnt take a decade
- RatedR80

Everybody uses the Oilers because they have had so many 1OA picks. Toronto has only made the playoffs once in the past 10 years. The same rebuild process has taken 10 years basically for both teams. Unless you are getting a generational McDavid type, the team isn't going to change over night. Even then, generational players are still going to need help.

Probably why I don't have a problem with JB trading away players/picks to create a new core a few years ago. They got in a winning season and are now experiencing losing. They will get higher quality players with top 10 draft picks. Add those players to the core that is being assembled. Hopefully winning starts again.

Management is at fault but after losing for such period of times the players will mail it in as well which makes it worse.....being an Oilers fan I have seen it over the course of ten years....losing cultures do exist and others see it....no one wants to play for a loser so it hurts you during the free agency period and other GMs love taking advantage (see Hall, Taylor)....I hate it when people use us as an example because today after ten years we might be reaping some kind of reward....we should be the example of what not to do.....rebuilds shouldnt take a decade
- RatedR80

Not many vets now anyway. They did take out Burr and Hansen. What they didn't do was cut the Sedin's ice time and deployment. Played guys like Skille and Megna above younger guys with higher ceilings. Changing that would be nice to see and go from there so younger guys can learn.
- Nuck4U

iMac wasn't wrong I don't think that vets still have an edge over kids because of consistency. With a vet you know what your going to get nightly. A kid, you don't. Maybe one night he pots 2. Next night he's a -3. Find the right mix of both.

Management is at fault but after losing for such period of times the players will mail it in as well which makes it worse.....being an Oilers fan I have seen it over the course of ten years....losing cultures do exist and others see it....no one wants to play for a loser so it hurts you during the free agency period and other GMs love taking advantage (see Hall, Taylor)....I hate it when people use us as an example because today after ten years we might be reaping some kind of reward....we should be the example of what not to do.....rebuilds shouldnt take a decade
- RatedR80

This is true, but we are only talking tanking the remainder of the season here. We knew even giving it our best effort from day 1 the team was going to be a bubble WC team, and now that the bubble burst, tank on.

As for Edmonton, drafting outside of round 1 killed them. If they had just hit on a couple of the later round players in any of those drafts, the results would have been different. Teams that went though long rebuilds, like Chicago, picked up players in the later rounds, thats why they were shorter. VAN is already looking really good for those later rounds in Tryamkin, Demko, Gaudette, etc. if we can get a top tier talent the timing might actually work out in future years