My favorite part about Tankathon is that winning streaks/good records are highlighted in red and losing streaks/poor records are highlighted in green. They just....they just get it

Maybe Hextall couldn't say his actual feelings. That kind of profanity wouldn't be acceptable, kind of like his feelings on the season.

Or maybe he has bad opinions on a bad defenseman. It just doesn't make sense that a legitimate top four defender gets sent down simply for cap reasons.
- BulliesPhan87

I *think* MacDonald could be an acceptable 2nd pairing guy if they had a legitimate top pairing. As I said yesterday, I *think* Provorov is going to grow into a legitimate top pairing guy.. heck, he's already the best all around D man on the team, and he's been getting more minutes than I think anyone had a right to expect he'd get this season.

*IF* the Flyers get another top pair D man (and assuming there's no regression in Provy's game), then it makes the jobs of the rest of the D corp much simpler. But right now, you can pretty much guarantee that at least someone on that D corps is going to get exposed every night and be asked to do things that are beyond their capabilities.


edit: wanted clarify that I wasnt asking for just another D man, but a top pairing guy

Maybe Hextall couldn't say his actual feelings. That kind of profanity wouldn't be acceptable, kind of like his feelings on the season.

Or maybe he has bad opinions on a bad defenseman. It just doesn't make sense that a legitimate top four defender gets sent down simply for cap reasons.
- BulliesPhan87

Flyers had defensive depth, and Hextall committed to playing Manning and Medvedev who he signed as a UFA. Neither is better now, or then, than MacDonald is in my opinion. Does it makes sense that a defenseman sent down to the AHL the previous season is now averaging 20:00 a game playing on the top pairing? MacDonald is a player that has averaged 20 minutes a game or more at the NHL level since the 09/10 NHL season, and some want to say he's not or hasn't been a top 4 NHL defenseman.

Prove that they spend more time in the defensive zone then without him? We can all pick and choose team metrics to suit a narrative. MacDonald being sent down was cap related, even Hextall said he belongs in the NHL. Not wanting to start on Gostisbehere is more evidence of an obvious bias similar to the excuses earlier for him.
- MJL

Do you want Corsi, Fenwick, eye test, or common sense? MacDonald makes everyone around him worse and that's not debatable.

"If you want a player in the NHL there are always ways around the cap. The cap is not the issue."
- mayorofangrytown

So if the cap isn't the issue, why would the Flyers demote a top 4 defenseman? They must not be serious about winning I guess.

If Amac was a top-4 D-man, they would have made it work with the cap to keep him up.

You don't like the metrics I used to determine they spend more time in the D-zone, but you wanna argue about goals now too? While you're at it, please use your Ph.D. in mathematics, statistics, physics, economics, and hockeying to come up with a better metric for zone time.

How about you prove he's a top-4 D-man considering you may be the only one naive enough to suggest he is one?
- JFlyers00

Where did I mention goals? It is ridiculously easy to prove that MacDonald is a top 4 NHL defenseman. He has averaged 20 minutes or more a game at the NHL level since the 09/10 NHL season. Don't really need a Ph.D to figure that out.

"If you want a player in the NHL there are always ways around the cap. The cap is not the issue."
- mayorofangrytown

The Flyers weren't forced to send MacDonald down, they made a choice. They chose to play Manning and Medvedev ahead of MacDonald, and send MacDonald down.

The Phantoms win a lot because they have a stacked offense. They aren't great defensively. Brennan and O'Neill are one-way dmen.
- Feanor

first in goals for and 20th in fewest goals against out of 30 teams

Where did I mention goals? It is ridiculously easy to prove that MacDonald is a top 4 NHL defenseman. He has averaged 20 minutes or more a game at the NHL level since the 09/10 NHL season. Don't really need a Ph.D to figure that out.
- MJL

How, out of the 10 skaters that have played atleast 200 minutes with Amac, does 9 of those skaters have a better GF% with him off the ice than with him on it?.
- JFlyers00

So you dispute corsi, gf%, and other metrics then proceed to use TOI to prove Amac is a top-4 D-man? Nice. That proves nothing, and if you look back at his past positions, it easily explains his TOI.

When the NHL introduced +/- in the 1960's (?) did that blow your mind? Or in the 30's, when the NHL started tracking assists, was that too much to handle too?

Flyers had defensive depth, and Hextall committed to playing Manning and Medvedev who he signed as a UFA. Neither is better now, or then, than MacDonald is in my opinion. Does it makes sense that a defenseman sent down to the AHL the previous season is now averaging 20:00 a game playing on the top pairing? MacDonald is a player that has averaged 20 minutes a game or more at the NHL level since the 09/10 NHL season, and some want to say he's not or hasn't been a top 4 NHL defenseman.
- MJL

It doesn't stand to reason to bury a legit top 4 defenseman to play depth defensemen for minimal cap relief. So no, it doesn't make sense. I think that ice time is more likely a reflection on the coaches, given what I've watched of the player.

So you dispute corsi, gf%, and other metrics then proceed to use TOI to prove Amac is a top-4 D-man? Nice. That proves nothing, and if you look back at his past positions, it easily explains his TOI.

When the NHL introduced +/- in the 1960's (?) did that blow your mind? Or in the 30's, when the NHL started tracking assists, was that too much to handle too?
- JFlyers00

Here is where we'll start. Show me where in the series of posts of this discussion that I disputed any of the metrics that you mentioned?

3rd pair NHL defenseman don't average 20 minutes or more over the span of 8 NHL seasons. That's a simple fact.

It doesn't stand to reason to bury a legit top 4 defenseman to play depth defensemen for minimal cap relief. So no, it doesn't make sense. I think that ice time is more likely a reflection on the coaches, given what I've watched of the player.
- BulliesPhan87

Manning was subject to waivers if they were going to send him down, and Hextall wanted to give him a chance. Hextall committed to Medvedev when he signed him as a free agent. Neither is or was better than MacDonald.

MacDonald's ice time is a reflection of what he is capable of as a player. While he is certainly not a player who should be used in a top pairing role, he has been used that way for the majority of his career. He is capable of playing reliably defensively, and move the puck well, as well as handle the puck in the offensive zone. He is a player that coaches trust, which is why he has gotten the ice time he has over his career. He is more a victim of being mis-used than a player who deserves the criticism he gets.

personally I think AMAC has played a lot better this year in comparison to last season but there is still no justification to his salary and he is overused as a 20 minute a night dman. chop off 3 million in salary and 5 mins a night and I would be fine with Amac. I look forward to the day they are out of that contract. luckily they still have Provorov 2 more years at his low salary before that balloons and they should have 2 more ELCs over the next few years. that 5 million hurts slightly less

Here is where we'll start. Show me where in the series of posts of this discussion that I disputed any of the metrics that you mentioned?

3rd pair NHL defenseman don't average 20 minutes or more over the span of 8 NHL seasons. That's a simple fact.
- MJL

You have in the past, and I'm not going though old threads digging.

Top-4 D-men are never demoted, another simple fact.

Look at the individual team situations for those 8 years.

It also doesn't help that the coaches from 6/8 of those years do not own NHL jobs.

You have in the past, and I'm not going though old threads digging.

Top-4 D-men are never demoted, another simple fact.

Look at the individual team situations for those 8 years.

It also doesn't help that the coaches from 6/8 of those years do not own NHL jobs.
- JFlyers00

You're being fished brah. Let 'er go.

You have in the past, and I'm not going though old threads digging.

Top-4 D-men are never demoted, another simple fact.

Look at the individual team situations for those 8 years.

It also doesn't help that the coaches from 6/8 of those years do not own NHL jobs.
- JFlyers00

All you're doing here is dodging and making false claims to what I said. Top 4 defenseman normally aren't demoted, but it was a unique situation. Here we are and MacDonald is averaging 20 a game on the top pairing. That those coaches are no longer coaching in the NHL has no bearing on what MacDonald is as a player. One player doesn't determine how a team fares.

personally I think AMAC has played a lot better this year in comparison to last season but there is still no justification to his salary and he is overused as a 20 minute a night dman. chop off 3 million in salary and 5 mins a night and I would be fine with Amac. I look forward to the day they are out of that contract. luckily they still have Provorov 2 more years at his low salary before that balloons and they should have 2 more ELCs over the next few years. that 5 million hurts slightly less
- nastyflyergirl

Carle and Randy Jones 2.0

One can dream of the day the Flyers have better d-men that we dont have to think of turds like Mac.

Maybe Hextall couldn't say his actual feelings. That kind of profanity wouldn't be acceptable, kind of like his feelings on the season.

Or maybe he has bad opinions on a bad defenseman. It just doesn't make sense that a legitimate top four defender gets sent down simply for cap reasons.
- BulliesPhan87

Even if Hextall didn't say how he really felt, it's not what he said. Is it?

Even off Hextall didn't say how he really felt, it's not what he said. Is is it?
- SuperSchennBros

idk

- Mononoke

There are two types of holes in this world. Those that have glory and those that do not.

Carle and Randy Jones 2.0

One can dream of the day the Flyers have better d-men that we dont have to think of turds like Mac.
- flyer_nutter

I wish MacDonald was as good as Carle was here. Carle had some outstanding seasons as a Flyers and was a top defenseman in the NHL at even strength.

I wish MacDonald was as good as Carle was here. Carle had some outstanding seasons as a Flyers and was a top defenseman in the NHL at even strength.
- MJL

Irrelevant.

- Mononoke

lol

Is that the Carmax guy?

Here is where we'll start. Show me where in the series of posts of this discussion that I disputed any of the metrics that you mentioned?

3rd pair NHL defenseman don't average 20 minutes or more over the span of 8 NHL seasons. That's a simple fact.
- MJL

To be fair, 5 defensemen on the team average at least 19:30 mins of ice time per game. It would have been 6 if Streit was still here. Soo... on this team, 3rd pair dmen do average almost 20 mins of ice time. I think that says something, though