I would venture to guess they are currently in a better spot then the Flyers today. Let's not live in the past. Let's actually take a hard look at where they are today. That is what both my post and opinion is. I could care (frank)in less about 5 years ago...
Columbus is a young franchise who has never had the financial backing that the Flyers have always enjoyed until recently. If all we are talking about is franchise history that gets a little old when I watch the piss poor product on the ice TODAY. Why is it when people point out what a piss poor result and product the Flyers have produced in the last 5 years guys cling to the past glory ? I've watched and cheered as long as you I just choose to form my own opinion and if it differs from yours...oh well.
- landros 2

I think all Bill was saying is before you select CLB as your model franchise, perhaps they should actually win a playoff round first, or maybe even have 2 strong back to back years? Honestly, I don't think they get past the Pens in round 1 this year, and who knows how they will do next season.

I'm not fully versed on the Jacket's prospect pool to comment on well they should expect to do over the next 4 or 5 seasons, but I am pretty confident that good things are coming for the Flyers.

"Piss poor" teams don't rank in the top one-third of the league at home nor do they rattle off any 10-game winning streaks or 5-1-0 runs as they recently had. You want to say a"flawed" team that is two impact players -- one up front and one more on D if Provorov stays.Healthy and on his current track -- away from being more than a streaky bubble team? Absolutely.

Also where did I say a thing about five plus years ago? My point is that Columbus looked like an utter mess before gelling this season. I think they are for real and will be a playoff team for years to come but then again, we were all saying that about the Islanders two years ago and they have since had misseteps and regressed to bubble team status again. I think Jarmo is a sharper GM than Garth Snow, but I also.think Hextall is as well.
- bmeltzer

I grant you "Flawed". Piss poor probably is a tad strong....As far as the 10 game win streak, I think it's fair to say that they didn't deserve to win all those games , just as it's fair to say they probably lost some games where I thought they were actually the better team. As far as Torts as a coach....if you listen to the media, he was on his death bed. But media don't make personel decisions. Someone else pointed out in a recent post about shelf life for a coach ....that's a good and fair argument.

Did Columbus "Gel" this year or did they make a major change to their core at the end of last year and infuse their team with several draft picks over the last few years that have come in to their own this year?

If the Flyers are Flawed, which I think it's fair to say, then it's the GMs job to make changes and try and correct the "flaws". I'm glad and can appreciate your opinion on Hextall....to me I'll wait a little longer to see how this team grows and hopefully doesn't regress.

If a Dman is, in their scouts opinions, the best available player then you take him. However, once the draft gets past the top 3 picks, and there is a forward you really like, then try to move up. In this years draft, I don't think it's going to take a massive package to move up from say 12 to 7. Some centers that I like, and that I think will all go somewhere between 4 and 15 are Mittlestadt, Glass, Pettersson and Necas. If you see a run starting on centers, then I'd be fine with moving up to get one of these guys.

Honestly, I'd be pretty surprised if all 4 are off the board before the 10th pick and even if the Flyers are at 13, it may not cost any more than the 13th pick and their 2nd rounder to move up 3 spots. If you really like a guy, then that is not to hefty a price to pay get him.
- BiggE

Yep I totally agree if they really like someone in a 5-10 range. Move up, give up picks or even a player to do it

Have our prospects struggled when recalled or do they seem perfectly fine in Hakstol system ? This is overblown though I agree I'd like to see similar systems I don't think it has the effects on prospects you think it does.
- Tfaehner

Remains to be seen really

I think all Bill was saying is before you select CLB as your model franchise, perhaps they should actually win a playoff round first, or maybe even have 2 strong back to back years? Honestly, I don't think they get past the Pens in round 1 this year, and who knows how they will do next season.

I'm not fully versed on the Jacket's prospect pool to comment on well they should expect to do over the next 4 or 5 seasons, but I am pretty confident that good things are coming for the Flyers.
- BiggE

"Model" is a tad strong. I do think they show that the process needn't take as long.

I grant you "Flawed". Piss poor probably is a tad strong....As far as the 10 game win streak, I think it's fair to say that they didn't deserve to win all those games , just as it's fair to say they probably lost some games where I thought they were actually the better team. As far as Torts as a coach....if you listen to the media, he was on his death bed. But media don't make personel decisions. Someone else pointed out in a recent post about shelf life for a coach ....that's a good and fair argument.

Did Columbus "Gel" this year or did they make a major change to their core at the end of last year and infuse their team with several draft picks over the last few years that have come in to their own this year?

If the Flyers are Flawed, which I think it's fair to say, then it's the GMs job to make changes and try and correct the "flaws". I'm glad and can appreciate your opinion on Hextall....to me I'll wait a little longer to see how this team grows and hopefully doesn't regress.
- landros 2

How many times has Columbus made the playoffs over the past 5 years?

How did they change it over 1 season?

Bob having a bounce back year from a bad season last year hides a lot of flaws..Oh go look Mason had a better year than Bob last year and the FLyers made the playoffs while Columbus did not.

"several draft picks over the last few years that have come in to their own this year?" So you mean they gelled this season? I mean what else do you call it when players, as a unit, come into their own?

If Gordon was as incompetent as the narrative that some are floating is saying, Hextall would not have him coaching the Phantoms.
- MJL

I don't think Gordon is incompetent and I think he does a good job in preparing the players for the rigors of the NHL and in learning how to do the little things right that will make them better all around NHL players.

My complaint, and I think a lot of people who've seen the Phantoms frequently echo it, is that the team does not play a system/style that is similar to Hak's system. Conversely, the baby Pens play the exact same style as the parent club. It seems to me that running identical systems for both teams would make a lot of sense.

So far, none of the Phantoms who were coached by Gordon(except perhaps Ghost, but he was only there under Gordon for a couple of months) have made an impact on the Flyers, though in his defense, he has only been there for 2 seasons.

The deciding factor in judging Gordon's success as the coach of the Phantoms won't be wins and losses as much as it will be seeing how ready kids like Morin, Hagg, Sanheim, NAK, Leier etc.. are when they (hopefully) are playing for the Flyers.

"Model" is a tad strong. I do think they show that the process needn't take as long.
- landros 2

How long has the Columbus process taken vs what the FLyers are doing?

I honestly dont get certain fans...

Cry for years they dont build through the draft.
Try and build through the draft and cry just as loud.

I grant you "Flawed". Piss poor probably is a tad strong....As far as the 10 game win streak, I think it's fair to say that they didn't deserve to win all those games , just as it's fair to say they probably lost some games where I thought they were actually the better team. As far as Torts as a coach....if you listen to the media, he was on his death bed. But media don't make personel decisions. Someone else pointed out in a recent post about shelf life for a coach ....that's a good and fair argument.

Did Columbus "Gel" this year or did they make a major change to their core at the end of last year and infuse their team with several draft picks over the last few years that have come in to their own this year?

If the Flyers are Flawed, which I think it's fair to say, then it's the GMs job to make changes and try and correct the "flaws". I'm glad and can appreciate your opinion on Hextall....to me I'll wait a little longer to see how this team grows and hopefully doesn't regress.
- landros 2

During that 10 game win streak, it wasn't as if they were dominating teams. They just squeaked out wins and their flaws eventually floated to the top. There is no shortcut to what Hextall is trying to do. Things were made to look worse due to the sub par play of it's top players. If that continues then that sets the team back and more and is a big problem. I think we're going to see more of an influx of new talent and the dark skies start to clear.

"Model" is a tad strong. I do think they show that the process needn't take as long.
- landros 2

Making the playoffs as the third of 4 seeds in your division is hardly the culmination of a process. They also stripped down their team of guys like Nash in order to rebuild. They had several top end picks that did not work out or were just okay. It wasn't until they trade johansen for Seth Jones too that their defense really took shape. Is werenski without Jones even half the player ? They also have guys like Sam Gagner playing top 6 roles. I hardly think they are some powerhouse. We are not at the point where you make a Jones for johansen trade though we would be the ones trading Jones in all likelihood. When we are at that juncture I have faith in hextall who has consistently executed good trades. His drafting with Pryor has also been superior I expect our cupboard to never be bare of players or trade chips.

How long has the Columbus process taken vs what the FLyers are doing?

I honestly dont get certain fans...

Cry for years they dont build through the draft.
Try and build through the draft and cry just as loud.
- opeth_pa

This when did columbus expand ? How many times did they tear it down mid way ? And how many playoff wins do they have?

During that 10 game win streak, it wasn't as if they were dominating teams. They just squeaked out wins and their flaws eventually floated to the top. There is no shortcut to what Hextall is trying to do. Things were made to look worse due to the sub par play of it's top players. If that continues then that sets the team back and more and is a big problem. I think we're going to see more of an influx of new talent and the dark skies start to clear.
- MJL

Agreed. It's pretty damned hard to take a step forward or even to maintain the success you had the previous year when your #1 center is having a horrible season and your goaltending is horribly inconsistent for most of the season.

I don't think Gordon is incompetent and I think he does a good job in preparing the players for the rigors of the NHL and in learning how to do the little things right that will make them better all around NHL players.

My complaint, and I think a lot of people who've seen the Phantoms frequently echo it, is that the team does not play a system/style that is similar to Hak's system. Conversely, the baby Pens play the exact same style as the parent club. It seems to me that running identical systems for both teams would make a lot of sense.

So far, none of the Phantoms who were coached by Gordon(except perhaps Ghost, but he was only there under Gordon for a couple of months) have made an impact on the Flyers, though in his defense, he has only been there for 2 seasons.

The deciding factor in judging Gordon's success as the coach of the Phantoms won't be wins and losses as much as it will be seeing how ready kids like Morin, Hagg, Sanheim, NAK, Leier etc.. are when they (hopefully) are playing for the Flyers.
- BiggE

Weal hasn't made an impact on the Flyers? How many besides Gostisbehere from the Phantoms have actually been with the Flyers long enough to make an impact? Cousins has turned into a decent player.
This is just my opinion and It'll probably be an unpopular opinion but most fans should stay away from discussing coaching systems because they don't have any idea what they actually are. There are many facets to hockey systems and coaches make adjustments on them based on the team and it's personnel. I guarantee you that there are many system wrinkles that Hakstol is not using that he ultimately would like to based on how his team has played. If I asked you exactly what Gordon and Hakstol's systems actually is, could you tell me. I don't need an answer.

How many times has Columbus made the playoffs over the past 5 years?

How did they change it over 1 season?

Bob having a bounce back year from a bad season last year hides a lot of flaws..Oh go look Mason had a better year than Bob last year and the FLyers made the playoffs while Columbus did not.

"several draft picks over the last few years that have come in to their own this year?" So you mean they gelled this season? I mean what else do you call it when players, as a unit, come into their own?
- opeth_pa

I pretty much answered all of this....but I will ask this....because no one seems to think it's important....Player development....are the Flyer draft picks developing after the Flyers get their hands on them? Is it the picks them selves ? Is it the coaching development ? Is it the timing? Are all these prospects coming ? Columbus also moved out their franchise center because of certain perceived character flaws for a stud young defenceman. So it's not only about the draft and the development.
I'm not saying Columbus is "The Model". I simply in my first response pointed out the current model they are using to turn things around and the job they are doing...

During that 10 game win streak, it wasn't as if they were dominating teams. They just squeaked out wins and their flaws eventually floated to the top. There is no shortcut to what Hextall is trying to do. Things were made to look worse due to the sub par play of it's top players. If that continues then that sets the team back and more and is a big problem. I think we're going to see more of an influx of new talent and the dark skies start to clear.
- MJL

100 %....let's hope the influx starts in October.

I pretty much answered all of this....but I will ask this....because no one seems to think it's important....Player development....are the Flyer draft picks developing after the Flyers get their hands on them? Is it the picks them selves ? Is it the coaching development ? Is it the timing? Are all these prospects coming ? Columbus also moved out their franchise center because of certain perceived character flaws for a stud young defenceman. So it's not only about the draft and the development.
I'm not saying Columbus is "The Model". I simply in my first response pointed out the current model they are using to turn things around and the job they are doing...
- landros 2

That trade that Columbus made is such a rare thing these days in the league so I don't think it is something that should be used to as an example to rate how Hextall is doing with the Flyers. Development of young players once they get to the NHL is rarely linear. It's frequently a series of ups and downs.

I pretty much answered all of this....but I will ask this....because no one seems to think it's important....Player development....are the Flyer draft picks developing after the Flyers get their hands on them? Is it the picks them selves ? Is it the coaching development ? Is it the timing? Are all these prospects coming ? Columbus also moved out their franchise center because of certain perceived character flaws for a stud young defenceman. So it's not only about the draft and the development.
I'm not saying Columbus is "The Model". I simply in my first response pointed out the current model they are using to turn things around and the job they are doing...
- landros 2

Im not sure what Columbus having success with their model has to do with the Flyers thought..

Last year Ghost had a great season and go figure like almost every other player in the history of the world, struggled in in his second season.

THis year Provy and TK made the team..I suspect Provy will take a step back next season.

Next season You could have as many as 2-4 highly touted rookies make the team out of camp.

If you want to be frustrated that the Flyers once again are not competing for the cup I am 100% with you..Claiming Columbus is doing it so much better than the FLyers doesnt make any sense.

That trade that Columbus made is such a rare thing these days in the league so I don't think it is something that should be used to as an example to rate how Hextall is doing with the Flyers. Development of young players once they get to the NHL is rarely linear. It's frequently a series of ups and downs.
- MJL

AGreed and it wouldnt make any sense for the flyers to trade a young forward for a young dman.

If they could move a young dman for a young forward I would certainly listen.. Just hypothetically a similar trade would have been GHost for Drouin or something along those lines.

Weal hasn't made an impact on the Flyers? How many besides Gostisbehere from the Phantoms have actually been with the Flyers long enough to make an impact? Cousins has turned into a decent player.
This is just my opinion and It'll probably be an unpopular opinion but most fans should stay away from discussing coaching systems because they don't have any idea what they actually are. There are many facets to hockey systems and coaches make adjustments on them based on the team and it's personnel. I guarantee you that there are many system wrinkles that Hakstol is not using that he ultimately would like to based on how his team has played. If I asked you exactly what Gordon and Hakstol's systems actually is, could you tell me. I don't need an answer.
- MJL

I'm not in the mood for a long discussion on hockey systems, but I will say this: I played hockey from Squirts up through Junior and I've coached youth hockey as well, so yes, I do understand systems. Gordon's on ice system, in almost every way, is nothing like Hak's. You many feel free to disagree.

RE the players you mentioned: Weal has looked good in a very small sample size, I'm not ready to make any final judgement on him yet and Cousins has shown me nothing to make me think that he will be any more than a 4th line agitator at best. However, I did make the point that after only 2 seasons as Phantoms coach that it is too early to judge Gordon from a developmental perspective so I'm really not sure what you are arguing about.

How long has the Columbus process taken vs what the FLyers are doing?

I honestly dont get certain fans...

Cry for years they dont build through the draft.
Try and build through the draft and cry just as loud.
- opeth_pa

You will never hear me cry about anything....I also won't give credit or some false praise about the current team in Philly. I simply pointed out what the Blue Jackets have tried to do in the last year....I could care less if you get me....
To me the Flyers are a work in progress that can not simply rely on the draft to get better.

I'm not in the mood for a long discussion on hockey systems, but I will say this: I played hockey from Squirts up through Junior and I've coached youth hockey as well, so yes, I do understand systems. Gordon's on ice system, in almost every way, is nothing like Hak's. You many feel free to disagree.

RE the players you mentioned: Weal has looked good in a very small sample size, I'm not ready to make any final judgement on him yet and Cousins has shown me nothing to make me think that he will be any more than a 4th line agitator at best. However, I did make the point that after only 2 seasons as Phantoms coach that it is too early to judge Gordon from a developmental perspective so I'm really not sure what you are arguing about.
- BiggE

If the system was indeed a problem ....pretty sure Hextall would have addressed it when he hired Gordon.

AGreed and it wouldnt make any sense for the flyers to trade a young forward for a young dman.

If they could move a young dman for a young forward I would certainly listen.. Just hypothetically a similar trade would have been GHost for Drouin or something along those lines.
- opeth_pa

My personal opinion is with the trouble that the Flyers have had developing defenseman they can't afford to trade one of the prospects and have that player turn out to be a top defenseman for another team. The more arrows in the quiver they have the more chances they have of hitting the target. I'm full of cliches today! If they wind up with a surplus of quality young defenseman, if there is such a thing, then they can look to maybe make a trade to sure up an area of weakness. I'm confident in the Flyers ability to draft and develop forwards.

Im not sure what Columbus having success with their model has to do with the Flyers thought..

Last year Ghost had a great season and go figure like almost every other player in the history of the world, struggled in in his second season.

THis year Provy and TK made the team..I suspect Provy will take a step back next season.

Next season You could have as many as 2-4 highly touted rookies make the team out of camp.

If you want to be frustrated that the Flyers once again are not competing for the cup I am 100% with you..Claiming Columbus is doing it so much better than the FLyers doesnt make any sense.
- opeth_pa

Columbus is currently doing a better job. Holy (frank).....I'm not saying there the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks...I'm comparing them and the current situation to the 2017 Flyers.

Y me the Flyers are a work in progress that can not simply rely on the draft to get better.
- landros 2

100% agree and it would make exactly 0 sense for Hexy to make a trade this season since the FLyers arent competing for a cup.

Him not trying to make a trade say 2-4 years from now when their chances should be better is a different story.

I pretty much answered all of this....but I will ask this....because no one seems to think it's important....Player development....are the Flyer draft picks developing after the Flyers get their hands on them? Is it the picks them selves ? Is it the coaching development ? Is it the timing? Are all these prospects coming ? Columbus also moved out their franchise center because of certain perceived character flaws for a stud young defenceman. So it's not only about the draft and the development.
I'm not saying Columbus is "The Model". I simply in my first response pointed out the current model they are using to turn things around and the job they are doing...
- landros 2

Since taking over in 2014, Hextall has made 25 draft picks, including 4 in the first round. You expect your first rounders to succeed, after that if 2 or more players in any given draft year develop into NHL players, you've done well. So far, it looks like quite a few of the guys Hexy picked in the later rounds are developing very well and have legit shots to be good NHL players. Friedman, Lindblom, Sandstrom, Vorobyev, Marody, Laberge, Hart, and Allison are 8 players selected after the 1st round that look like potential NHL players. When your team has 9 prospects playing at the World Juniors, you are clearly doing something right.