If in fact Dineen did have a frank conversation about the teams flaws on his exit interview then it suggests to me a little frustration that Q is not delegating completely to his assistant coaches. Hard to hold them completely accountable if so.

A bunch of posters here have been objective enough to note the flaws all along despite the great results of recent years. Now that the veterans are more mature the whole team needs to do all the little things that make an average team more competitive. We all saw what happened when they didn't. Obviously the team is at a crossroads. Just McD having a poopfit isn't going to do it. There has to be commitment to coming to work, both players and coaches. Not just doing the same thing over and over that worked despite the odds because they had so much talent they didn't have to worry.
For example: clearing the crease, strategically dumping the puck and not just as a last resort, having more than one PP or PK to confuse the opposition...

The kool-aid brigade is quick to point out that the team had 50 wins. So how could they look so bad in the 1st round? By being predictable and un-adjustable. They were ripe for a hungry team with a good game plan. Might have been the best thing for them long term. It doesn't have to stay that way, but they all have to open their minds. Should be good theater all summer.
- 6628

>Playoff hockey is now a 200 foot game every minute of the game, for every player on the ice
>Many innovative, fresh-thinkers are studying other "time and space" sports to try and develop new approaches that create prime scoring chances for their team
>There is no room anymore for ironclad stubbornness in today's NHL
>And agreed, the Hawks total organization failure this year might be the best thing that could have happened short of winning another Cup
>Said this the other day: Toews is useless in the current power play scheme (other than winning a draw)
>With his cap hit, Toews must produce on the score sheet to start earning his $
>Thinking the Hawks next year will either be amazing or a disaster

A moment of silence for those of you who remember it fondly:

Jen‏ @NHLhistorygirl
On this date in 1994, #Blackhawks played their final game in Chicago Stadium.
- pdx2ord

Vividly remember JR leaving the ice right in front of my seats (sect-X mezz). JR, who scored the last-ever 'Hawks goal in OT just four days earlier, was one of the few who wore his heart on his sleeve each and every game, period and shift. Still remember how he was affected on screen when the 'Hawks broke their 49-year drought.

Damn I miss the barn. Never in hockey will there be a louder place, ever.

A moment of silence for those of you who remember it fondly:

Jen‏ @NHLhistorygirl
On this date in 1994, #Blackhawks played their final game in Chicago Stadium.
- pdx2ord

that leafs series was one of the more frustrating ones and that goes back to the Oilers in the 80s for me when they couldn't get over the Fuhr/Ranford hump.

That's why watching all of the post-season exit interviews, specifically the veteran core, Q, and StanBo, was so interesting. All seemed to nail the fact that their compete level wasn't there, yet all seemed stymied as to why. Some seemed to genuinely be embarrassed and find the loss unacceptable and some almost seemed to accept it/shrug it off.

Personally, based on the NSH performance, those interviews, the fallout since, and what JJ said about Dineen, it seems like a complete meltdown of the team's camaraderie and its winning culture we were so proud of for so long. And, as you note, that's not a talent issue, it's between the ears.
- pdx2ord

That's where the answers are, but I can't remember who seemed to accept it/ shrugged it off and who was embarrassed. I can't bring myself to go back and watch them again.

You don't, all of a sudden, lose camaraderie and the winning culture UNLESS the leaders in the locker room allow it to happen. I've said it before, the NE Patriots are the best organization in professional sports because their locker room has the best leader in sports, their coach is the best in football, and their front office knows when to give out contracts and when to cut bait.

So what has happened over the past year or so to the closeness of this organization?
- DMCsPulledHammy

Game has changed (even faster and bigger) and the core players are getting older (a step slower physically and mentally) and the hockey and life grind has caught up to the core. The core needed to produce and didn't, it is a sacrifice for the team. The fire was still there, but Q did not adjust and did not prepare his not very deep team for the playoffs. Nashville was ready and they were deep, they still had Colin Wilson, MCLeod, and Fiddler sitting on the bench.

Look as the stuff going on with Hawks off ice:
Seabrook expecting baby in a few weeks, who knows if there are complications or not.
Keith - recent divorce
Anisamov - hurt, Russian, probably should not have been playing but still only one of the better hawks around the net.
Hjammer - new recent father
Oduya - not 100%
Panarin - Russian and got his bonus
Toews - hot girlfriend, and most hot woman have a little crazy in them
and Toews (again) - ?

Vividly remember JR leaving the ice right in front of my seats (sect-X mezz). JR, who scored the last-ever 'Hawks goal in OT just four days earlier, was one of the few who wore his heart on his sleeve each and every game, period and shift. Still remember how he was affected on screen when the 'Hawks broke their 49-year drought.

Damn I miss the barn. Never in hockey will there be a louder place, ever.
- blackhawk24

I loved JR's reaction when the Hawks won.

People dogged him so hard for it. What a bunch of mouth breathers.

That's where the answers are, but I can't remember who seemed to accept it/ shrugged it off and who was embarrassed. I can't bring myself to go back and watch them again.
- walleyeb1

Of the ones posted yesterday, I had the hardest time deciding if Keith cared or not, but he is always inscrutable. Hoss definitely wants to come back, but wants an offensive role, not defensive. He loved being on the line with the Russians for that short stint and didn't like being relegated to the 3rd line.

Game has changed (even faster and bigger) and the core players are getting older (a step slower physically and mentally) and the hockey and life grind has caught up to the core. The core needed to produce and didn't, it is a sacrifice for the team. The fire was still there, but Q did not adjust and did not prepare his not very deep team for the playoffs. Nashville was ready and they were deep, they still had Colin Wilson, MCLeod, and Fiddler sitting on the bench.

Look as the stuff going on with Hawks off ice:
Seabrook expecting baby in a few weeks, who knows if there are complications or not.
Keith - recent divorce
Anisamov - hurt, Russian, probably should not have been playing but still only one of the better hawks around the net.
Hjammer - new recent father
Oduya - not 100%
Panarin - Russian and got his bonus
Toews - hot girlfriend, and most hot woman have a little crazy in them
and Toews (again) - ?
- Topshelf2010

Didn't see the fire you apparently did, except in a few select players.

And, sorry, have to call BS on the Toews thing - he has been dating her since 2012. Now, is she pressuring him to get married/have kids? Different story.

Crawford's GF also announced a pregnancy, so I'm sure that is on his mind and will weigh into his choice of where to move (she is a Chicago native). Coincided with his return from appendectomy.

Then you have so many who have uncertain futures - it's simple math to see many wouldn't be sticking around. Were their minds on their future instead of the present?

>Playoff hockey is now a 200 foot game every minute of the game, for every player on the ice
>Many innovative, fresh-thinkers are studying other "time and space" sports to try and develop new approaches that create prime scoring chances for their team
>There is no room anymore for ironclad stubbornness in today's NHL
>And agreed, the Hawks total organization failure this year might be the best thing that could have happened short of winning another Cup
>Said this the other day: Toews is useless in the current power play scheme (other than winning a draw)
>With his cap hit, Toews must produce on the score sheet to start earning his $
>Thinking the Hawks next year will either be amazing or a disaster
- SnapitUpstairs

Was thinking the same....and to you , Trob, and 6628 and I'm sure I'm missing a few others.....

--The McDonough "pissed off" narrative is all well and fine. He has to display that to back his "one goal" campaign. I get that.....and I'm glad he's holding EVERYONE accountable and analyzing what "went wrong". He's backing it up in print with suntimes/trib interviews.

--Dineen: Agreed here....sounds like a frustrated coach who may have 1 hand tied behind his back and a conflict with Q on schemes/personnel pairings. Especially having been a head coach in "today's NHL" where Kitchen hasn't......

--I also agree on the premise that the Hawks are very image conscience. McDonough built this brand up through hard work, lots of money, lots of conversations to reconnect with the Mikitas, Hulls, Foleys, etc of the world. He wont' alienate a fan base he spent HUGE money on to fill his stadium.

However, the one tell here is you always look for the public case against said player...once you see that, the tea leaves read easier. Remember, Sammy Sosa made a dismal Cubs team worth spending money to go see along with beanie babies, and then once Sosa became expendable.....the cubs leaked the infamous tape and the made the public court of opinion HEAVILY in their favor. that's NOT a knock against McDonough, that's a savvy, smart one step ahead of you business man......so when I hear a talking head like Dan Bernstein in January go on a rant out of left field about Corey Crawford and issues, my attention perks up.

--Frist time this organization failed with LEGIT cup aspirations where the elimination is embarrassing and puzzling. Not a "bad bounce" vs LA in a game 7, or a young team outmanned vs a veteran Detroit team, or a substantial difference in talent vs Vancouver, or a coin flip vs STL, or a injury/suspension filled series vs Phoenix.

No, this was a colossal failure on many levels, and now it will be great theater to see how a man who understands the fickleness of discretionary money like none other in sports, fights to keep his brand on top and ahead with a championship product on the ice.

That's why watching all of the post-season exit interviews, specifically the veteran core, Q, and StanBo, was so interesting. All seemed to nail the fact that their compete level wasn't there, yet all seemed stymied as to why. Some seemed to genuinely be embarrassed and find the loss unacceptable and some almost seemed to accept it/shrug it off.

Personally, based on the NSH performance, those interviews, the fallout since, and what JJ said about Dineen, it seems like a complete meltdown of the team's camaraderie and its winning culture we were so proud of for so long. And, as you note, that's not a talent issue, it's between the ears.
- pdx2ord

They played like it too. They were soft and going through the motions. There was no adjustment, just scared perimeter play. It was disgusting to watch. It's not like they ever outplayed the Preds for long enough stretches to justify their garbage strategy. Believe it or not, 19 is still the engine that drives the Hawks success, and he was thoroughly outplayed by just about every Preds C.

Game has changed (even faster and bigger) and the core players are getting older (a step slower physically and mentally) and the hockey and life grind has caught up to the core. The core needed to produce and didn't, it is a sacrifice for the team. The fire was still there, but Q did not adjust and did not prepare his not very deep team for the playoffs. Nashville was ready and they were deep, they still had Colin Wilson, MCLeod, and Fiddler sitting on the bench.

Look as the stuff going on with Hawks off ice:
Seabrook expecting baby in a few weeks, who knows if there are complications or not.
Keith - recent divorce
Anisamov - hurt, Russian, probably should not have been playing but still only one of the better hawks around the net.
Hjammer - new recent father
Oduya - not 100%
Panarin - Russian and got his bonus
Toews - hot girlfriend, and most hot woman have a little crazy in them
and Toews (again) - ?
- Topshelf2010

I find some of your comments bizarre
Seabrook - why would you even speculate something like that
Keith - a year ago, I am sure he is over it, more like his knee may be shot
Anisamov - what does his ethnicity have to do with his skill level or health?
Oduya - Only normal comment
Panarian - again, ethnicity?
Toews - a bit jealous? they have dated through a few cups. As vetted in detail on this blog, people speculate it is his training and diet regime.

Great post and I agree. But I remember probably 90% of the posters here saying go for it this year and worry about next year next year for years now. Most have a short term outlook. Had Bowman tried to whittle them down at the time he would have been roasted for being "Dollar Bill Like". But now welcome to next year as you point out. I'll say again - SB has the toughest job in town. And it ain't gettin easier.
- 6628

Fact is SB made very little changes over last year and at the TDL and we went out in the first round just like last year. And there has been such a drop off in skill and speed of the "core" that I don't think it's that they didn't show up, its that they did and there's very little there anymore.

Was thinking the same....and to you , Trob, and 6628 and I'm sure I'm missing a few others.....

--The McDonough "pissed off" narrative is all well and fine. He has to display that to back his "one goal" campaign. I get that.....and I'm glad he's holding EVERYONE accountable and analyzing what "went wrong". He's backing it up in print with suntimes/trib interviews.

--Dineen: Agreed here....sounds like a frustrated coach who may have 1 hand tied behind his back and a conflict with Q on schemes/personnel pairings. Especially having been a head coach in "today's NHL" where Kitchen hasn't......

--I also agree on the premise that the Hawks are very image conscience. McDonough built this brand up through hard work, lots of money, lots of conversations to reconnect with the Mikitas, Hulls, Foleys, etc of the world. He wont' alienate a fan base he spent HUGE money on to fill his stadium.

However, the one tell here is you always look for the public case against said player...once you see that, the tea leaves read easier. Remember, Sammy Sosa made a dismal Cubs team worth spending money to go see along with beanie babies, and then once Sosa became expendable.....the cubs leaked the infamous tape and the made the public court of opinion HEAVILY in their favor. that's NOT a knock against McDonough, that's a savvy, smart one step ahead of you business man......so when I hear a talking head like Dan Bernstein in January go on a rant out of left field about Corey Crawford and issues, my attention perks up.

--Frist time this organization failed with LEGIT cup aspirations where the elimination is embarrassing and puzzling. Not a "bad bounce" vs LA in a game 7, or a young team outmanned vs a veteran Detroit team, or a substantial difference in talent vs Vancouver, or a coin flip vs STL, or a injury/suspension filled series vs Phoenix.

No, this was a colossal failure on many levels, and now it will be great theater to see how a man who understands the fickleness of discretionary money like none other in sports, fights to keep his brand on top and ahead with a championship product on the ice.
- SteveRain

>Great theater ahead, indeed
>You point out the real "head-scratcher" -- why did this team get throttled so badly after a great regular season? Why so "dead" on the ice?
>Also have to wonder how both Stan & Q are taking the McD "review" after all the success they have had
>I sincerely hope every move the org makes works "big time"

>Playoff hockey is now a 200 foot game every minute of the game, for every player on the ice
>Many innovative, fresh-thinkers are studying other "time and space" sports to try and develop new approaches that create prime scoring chances for their team
>There is no room anymore for ironclad stubbornness in today's NHL
>And agreed, the Hawks total organization failure this year might be the best thing that could have happened short of winning another Cup
>Said this the other day: Toews is useless in the current power play scheme (other than winning a draw)
>With his cap hit, Toews must produce on the score sheet to start earning his $
>Thinking the Hawks next year will either be amazing or a disaster
- SnapitUpstairs

Hopefully they will be a work in progress that trends up over the year. But if they do slip I hope their chute opens.

Didn't see the fire you apparently did, except in a few select players.

And, sorry, have to call BS on the Toews thing - he has been dating her since 2012. Now, is she pressuring him to get married/have kids? Different story.

Crawford's GF also announced a pregnancy, so I'm sure that is on his mind and will weigh into his choice of where to move (she is a Chicago native). Coincided with his return from appendectomy.

Then you have so many who have uncertain futures - it's simple math to see many wouldn't be sticking around. Were their minds on their future instead of the present?
- pdx2ord

well, do the core really have that issue about the future, they all have NMC or NTC. There only concern would be, this might be our last chance because next year is even going to be tougher with lower priced players.
Everyone says the compete level wasn't there, but maybe they were competing to their level under their team game plan (the same plan for the last few years, which got them 2 cups), but a step slow or a poor decision by a tired veteran or nervous rookie makes the difference.

Was thinking the same....and to you , Trob, and 6628 and I'm sure I'm missing a few others.....

--The McDonough "pissed off" narrative is all well and fine. He has to display that to back his "one goal" campaign. I get that.....and I'm glad he's holding EVERYONE accountable and analyzing what "went wrong". He's backing it up in print with suntimes/trib interviews.

--Dineen: Agreed here....sounds like a frustrated coach who may have 1 hand tied behind his back and a conflict with Q on schemes/personnel pairings. Especially having been a head coach in "today's NHL" where Kitchen hasn't......

--I also agree on the premise that the Hawks are very image conscience. McDonough built this brand up through hard work, lots of money, lots of conversations to reconnect with the Mikitas, Hulls, Foleys, etc of the world. He wont' alienate a fan base he spent HUGE money on to fill his stadium.

However, the one tell here is you always look for the public case against said player...once you see that, the tea leaves read easier. Remember, Sammy Sosa made a dismal Cubs team worth spending money to go see along with beanie babies, and then once Sosa became expendable.....the cubs leaked the infamous tape and the made the public court of opinion HEAVILY in their favor. that's NOT a knock against McDonough, that's a savvy, smart one step ahead of you business man......so when I hear a talking head like Dan Bernstein in January go on a rant out of left field about Corey Crawford and issues, my attention perks up.

--Frist time this organization failed with LEGIT cup aspirations where the elimination is embarrassing and puzzling. Not a "bad bounce" vs LA in a game 7, or a young team outmanned vs a veteran Detroit team, or a substantial difference in talent vs Vancouver, or a coin flip vs STL, or a injury/suspension filled series vs Phoenix.

No, this was a colossal failure on many levels, and now it will be great theater to see how a man who understands the fickleness of discretionary money like none other in sports, fights to keep his brand on top and ahead with a championship product on the ice.
- SteveRain

I'd be very interested to know what the season ticket renewal rate is going into next year. It has been virtually automatic for the last few years even tho the prices kept climbing.

For sure McD has his finger all over that pulse.

Switching gears a bit...

Anyone have any insight on the Golden Knights sweaters and what they might look like? I've only seen fan concepts.

I really like the shoulder patch--more than the main logo, to be honest.

The colors should be interesting.

>Great theater ahead, indeed
>You point out the real "head-scratcher" -- why did this team get throttled so badly after a great regular season? Why so "dead" on the ice?
>Also have to wonder how both Stan & Q are taking the McD "review" after all the success they have had
>I sincerely hope every move the org makes works "big time"
- SnapitUpstairs

A few of us are on the same page of something else at play here=the dismal showing and lack of compete.

I would think McDonough may be leaning on senior bowman when stepping back and looking at internal review, so I doubt either Stan or Q gets axed. that seems a bit knee jerked, and I'm sure rest of the league would find that odd to fire either of that tandem after 3 cups. Not saying either one doesn't own most of this, but I think both get a pass.....for this upcoming year.

You don't, all of a sudden, lose camaraderie and the winning culture UNLESS the leaders in the locker room allow it to happen. I've said it before, the NE Patriots are the best organization in professional sports because their locker room has the best leader in sports, their coach is the best in football, and their front office knows when to give out contracts and when to cut bait.

So what has happened over the past year or so to the closeness of this organization?
- DMCsPulledHammy

Agreed. Toews drives the Hawks success. When is the last time he looked like a beast along the boards like he used to? He has regressed from his all around effectiveness, not just scoring.

Also, I love #2 but he is so frustrating to watch. The Norris days are gone, but how many times does he give up position in front of the net (usually without a battle)? I've talked about his offense on here before (and JJ pointed it out in the post), but why does he get a pass from the media? He does rack up assists (without looking I would say most are secondary). He does not rush the puck effectively anymore, he can't consistently make clean break out passes either.

Fact is SB made very little changes over last year and at the TDL and we went out in the first round just like last year. And there has been such a drop off in skill and speed of the "core" that I don't think it's that they didn't show up, its that they did and there's very little there anymore.
- fvineze

or very little room for mistakes or missed opportunities. Also usually tired skill players like Kane (double shifting and extended shifts), they lose their advantage or edge over their opponents and do not make the best of their opportunities.

A few big plays, Kane had a somewhat breakaway in game 4 in the late 2nd or 3rd period, and got a decent shot off that Rinne stopped easily, but not a great shot. Schmaltz missing on the breakaway in game 3, could have made it 3-0. Similarly, a tired Panarin flipped a wrister towards the net in the 3rd period with no one in front and a tired Nashville defense on the ice and fresh hawks player just getting on the ice, smart play would have been to dump in the corner, but quick transition by Nashville and goal #2 the other way.

I'd be very interested to know what the season ticket renewal rate is going into next year. It has been virtually automatic for the last few years even tho the prices kept climbing.

For sure McD has his finger all over that pulse.
- RickJ

I'm guessing it's 99.95 as always. Money (25%) and renewals were due before playoffs started.

Prices are continually rising....some point that breaking point will hit.

I know our seats started in $30s and are now $100 a pop.

Agreed. Toews drives the Hawks success. When is the last time he looked like a beast along the boards like he used to? He has regressed from his all around effectiveness, not just scoring.

Also, I love #2 but he is so frustrating to watch. The Norris days are gone, but how many times does he give up position in front of the net (usually without a battle)? I've talked about his offense on here before (and JJ pointed it out in the post), but why does he get a pass from the media? He does rack up assists (without looking I would say most are secondary). He does not rush the puck effectively anymore, he can't consistently make clean break out passes either.
- Antz96

This is a standard Hawk Defensemen practice and it drives me nuts. Opponents are allowed to literally stand in front of the net and be untouched.

Defense needs to starting making those guys lives miserable and if not them, than Crow or Darling have to start giving some whacks to let those guys know they're there.

Of the ones posted yesterday, I had the hardest time deciding if Keith cared or not, but he is always inscrutable. Hoss definitely wants to come back, but wants an offensive role, not defensive. He loved being on the line with the Russians for that short stint and didn't like being relegated to the 3rd line.
- pdx2ord

I do remember Hossa expressing his concerns, you could tell he cared. Who were the players that weren't embarrassed and seemed to just shrug it off. They should be the focus of concern.

A few of us are on the same page of something else at play here=the dismal showing and lack of compete.

I would think McDonough may be leaning on senior bowman when stepping back and looking at internal review, so I doubt either Stan or Q gets axed. that seems a bit knee jerked, and I'm sure rest of the league would find that odd to fire either of that tandem after 3 cups. Not saying either one doesn't own most of this, but I think both get a pass.....for this upcoming year.
- SteveRain

>When players do not play for each other -- something else is indeed going on
>Have to also wonder about the state of the Q/Stan relationship going forward -- Q and Kitch are very close -- Stan basically punched Q as hard as he could by letting Kitch go
>Was the Kitch dismissal Stan's way of trying to get Q to leave?
>If next year is a Moneyball scenario between Q/Stan, Hawks will not make the playoffs -- they need to be on the same page for success

Your points are valid. the second half of the big contracts is you KNOW you must draft and develop in house talent to fill mid level roster spots. They did not draft well and they did not develop well. Most of the top young performers in recent years skipped the AHL. Dent can say all he wants, not every prospect sent through Rockford was a buster. Additionally, during the regular season young players need minutes. Every minute given to the three wheel cart AKA Soupy stunted the growth of a D man.

So:
1. Poor Drafting - On Bowman
2. Poor Development - On Dent
3. Poor Maturation Process - On Q

Everyone has skin in the game.
- riozzo

Agree on points 2 & 3 but not #1. The drafting has not been too bad when you are drafting from low positions as we have. Also, no team in any sport connects on every selection.