AND the year before as well
- 21peter

Awww... those sweet sweet tears are so yummy

Agreed. Pens were not a good possession team this year. They ranked 18th with a 49%. Yet they were 1st in scoring and second in goals for % at 59.1%. And of course second best record. This has actually been a year long trend of out-performing their possession metrics not just the playoffs. 100 games is a long enough sample size.

And that's almost all advanced stats. But most advanced stats guys only want to talk about possession. But some teams just have better shooters to take advantage of their opportunities and better goaltending. Particularly against Washington, that's what happened. Fleury played unreal, Holtby didn't and the Pens buried most of their chances.
- Tojo.

Actually, not true at all. Over the regular season the Penguins had the highest amount of scoring chances in the NHL BUT they were also positive on those scoring chances more often than not, trading chances at around an equal rate while coming out on top. 2067 to 1862, at 52.61%. In the playoffs they also have the highest amount of scoring chances as well, but they are not coming out on top, Pens - 425, opposition - 494, or 46.25%.

This is not the same way they played during the regular season. They never got pinned in their own zone like they have been in the playoffs. In the regular season the games were wide open, trading chances. In the playoffs, the Pens get pinned into their own zone due to lack of skill on defense... Guys handling the puck like live grenades, dumping it off the boards and out, gving the puck back to the opposition as they regroup for another attack, then the Pens end up getting opportunistic on a lucky bounce or 10, and make the most of it. There is no (frank)ing coach in the league except maybe Torterella back with NYR that says "Lets sit back, block shots, and try to be opportunistic."

Sullivan says it time and time again that he's not happy with their puck possession, and their shot attempts. And the players say it time and time again "we got lucky" "not our best game" etc. It's so funny when you hear these words come from the coaches and players but a bunch of dolts on hockeybuzz can't acknowledge luck.

Agreed. Pens were not a good possession team this year. They ranked 18th with a 49%. Yet they were 1st in scoring and second in goals for % at 59.1%. And of course second best record. This has actually been a year long trend of out-performing their possession metrics not just the playoffs. 100 games is a long enough sample size.

And that's almost all advanced stats. But most advanced stats guys only want to talk about possession. But some teams just have better shooters to take advantage of their opportunities and better goaltending. Particularly against Washington, that's what happened. Fleury played unreal, Holtby didn't and the Pens buried most of their chances.
- Tojo.

I was thinking about all of that last night. How the Pens were the top scoring team and 2nd best record despite the insane amount of injuries and underwhelming advanced stats. The trend continued into these playoffs. 100 games is a big enough sample size.

I said so many times during the regular season the Pens weren't giving playoff efforts for full games. That they were only bringing their grade A playoff efforts for a half of or one full period of a game and still winning. I thought for sure when the playoffs would start we would see full 60 minutes efforts or at least 50 minutes ones. I was wrong.

I think they're the most opportunistic team I've ever witnessed...and they were the same way in the regular season.

Actually, not true at all. Over the regular season the Penguins had the highest amount of scoring chances in the NHL BUT they were also positive on those scoring chances more often than not, trading chances at around an equal rate while coming out on top. 2067 to 1862, at 52.61%. In the playoffs they also have the highest amount of scoring chances as well, but they are not coming out on top, Pens - 425, opposition - 494, or 46.25%.

This is not the same way they played during the regular season. They never got pinned in their own zone like they have been in the playoffs. In the regular season the games were wide open, trading chances. In the playoffs, the Pens get pinned into their own zone due to lack of skill on defense... Guys handling the puck like live grenades, dumping it off the boards and out, gving the puck back to the opposition as they regroup for another attack, then the Pens end up getting opportunistic on a lucky bounce or 10, and make the most of it. There is no (frank)ing coach in the league except maybe Torterella back with NYR that says "Lets sit back, block shots, and try to be opportunistic."

Sullivan says it time and time again that he's not happy with their puck possession, and their shot attempts. And the players say it time and time again "we got lucky" "not our best game" etc. It's so funny when you hear these words come from the coaches and players but a bunch of dolts on hockeybuzz can't acknowledge luck.
- j.boyd919

They'd only show up for a period in a regular season game and still win....

I won't
- 21peter

To each their own. It doesn't matter. We are all just wasting time on here till the game starts. None of our opinions mean or change anything at all.

To each their own. It doesn't matter. We are all just wasting time on here till the game starts. None of our opinions mean or change anything at all.
- Zac_O

Truth.

I was thinking about all of that last night. How the Pens were the top scoring team and 2nd best record despite the insane amount of injuries and underwhelming advanced stats. The trend continued into these playoffs. 100 games is a big enough sample size.

I said so many times during the regular season the Pens weren't giving playoff efforts for full games. That they were only bringing their grade A playoff efforts for a half of or one full period of a game and still winning. I thought for sure when the playoffs would start we would see full 60 minutes efforts or at least 50 minutes ones. I was wrong.

I think they're the most opportunistic team I've ever witnessed...and they were the same way in the regular season.
- MattStrat

While I do agree they are opportunistic as (frank). I don't think any coach wants their team to be opportunistic and I don't think any coach is ever satisfied with opportunistic. Which is why I don't understand why everyone on these boards defends sub-par play because of the results, when the process is really bad.

No, it's skill. I just didn't think it was a good comparison.
- tpcg402

I think you are probably right. It was a really bad comparison.

They'd only show up for a period in a regular season game and still win....
- MattStrat

Not exactly a recipe for success. Not something I would ever expect any coach to shoot for. Which is my problem with everyone being okay with it.

They'd only show up for a period in a regular season game and still win....
- MattStrat

Am I happy the Pens won? (frank) yeah. But can I acknowledge they looked like poop in the process? Absolutely. I'm not going to defend them and say "The better team is the team with more goals." That's foolish. Coach said it. Players said it. Fans should recognize it too. Don't be fooled by the scoreboard because poop shows on the ice aren't hard to recognize, and the Pens have brought a lot of poop efforts to the playoffs this year and somehow managed to get out alive. Am I happy? Yeah, of course. But I wish they'd actually (frank)ing play well and not look like hot garbage over half the time.

While I do agree they are opportunistic as (frank). I don't think any coach wants their team to be opportunistic and I don't think any coach is ever satisfied with opportunistic. Which is why I don't understand why everyone on these boards defends sub-par play because of the results, when the process is really bad.
- j.boyd919

I agree no coach wants that.

I told so many friends and families I didnt like the Pens chances this year not only because of the mathematical odds of repeat are crazy and Letang was gone and all the other injuries but also because of how they'd been playing all year, especially the last month or so. So many nights they were just coasting...then they'd find themselves trailing and wham! they'd tie it and win it. They were the best come from behind team this season.

Now look at what happens in these playoffs. They've looked like an absolute power house in must win games. Game 7 vs the Caps and game 4 vs the Sens. Now, game 4 wasn't must win vs the Sens but they certainly didn't want to go down 3-1 vs that team and their system and they came out possessed.

While I do agree they are opportunistic as (frank). I don't think any coach wants their team to be opportunistic and I don't think any coach is ever satisfied with opportunistic. Which is why I don't understand why everyone on these boards defends sub-par play because of the results, when the process is really bad.
- j.boyd919

That's what im saying. Being opportunistic isn't luck.

Am I happy the Pens won? (frank) yeah. But can I acknowledge they looked like poop in the process? Absolutely. I'm not going to defend them and say "The better team is the team with more goals." That's foolish. Coach said it. Players said it. Fans should recognize it too. Don't be fooled by the scoreboard because poop shows on the ice aren't hard to recognize, and the Pens have brought a lot of poop efforts to the playoffs this year and somehow managed to get out alive. Am I happy? Yeah, of course. But I wish they'd actually (frank)ing play well and not look like hot garbage over half the time.
- j.boyd919

I agree they didn't look good. I recognise that wasn't a good effort at all. I also believe the Preds werent that dangerous looking in that game despite those 37 shotless minutes.

That's what im saying. Being opportunistic isn't luck.
- Zac_O

They often go hand in hand.

I agree they didn't look good. I recognise that wasn't a good effort at all. I also believe the Preds werent that dangerous looking in that game despite those 37 shotless minutes.
- MattStrat

Oh, I agree, they didn't look dangerous like the Capitals dangerous... but 37 minutes without a shot on goal is absurd.

Not exactly a recipe for success. Not something I would ever expect any coach to shoot for. Which is my problem with everyone being okay with it.
- j.boyd919

Im not ok with it...this run has been nerve racking as fvck because of it. Hard to be confident when they get outplayed so much. Last year I would just know that they were going to outplay the other team...this year you dont know.

Im not ok with it...this run has been nerve racking as fvck because of it. Hard to be confident when they get outplayed so much. Last year I would just know that they were going to outplay the other team...this year you dont know.
- MattStrat

Exactly.

They often go hand in hand.
- j.boyd919

Being able to preform when it counts the most is not luck. Some people get lucky a few times. But with the frequency at which the pens do it it's not luck.

While I do agree they are opportunistic as (frank). I don't think any coach wants their team to be opportunistic and I don't think any coach is ever satisfied with opportunistic. Which is why I don't understand why everyone on these boards defends sub-par play because of the results, when the process is really bad.
- j.boyd919

I think every coach wants their team to be opportunistic. No team is going to perfectly execute their plan every night, being opportunistic is how you win in the playoffs. Every other coach in the league wishes their team was as opportunistic as the Pens.

The fact is, every player on the Pens defence has had a significant injury this year, most still working through one. Letang gone. Maata & Daley injured right up until the playoffs. Dumolin is hurt. Schultz is hurt. Hainsey I think has brain damage. So yes, it would be great if they were playing better back there.

Pens played bad in game 1. They will have to play better to win the series. Pens haven't been lucky to get this far, they have scored more goals than their opponents.

I think every coach wants their team to be opportunistic. No team is going to perfectly execute their plan every night, being opportunistic is how you win in the playoffs. Every other coach in the league wishes their team was as opportunistic as the Pens.

The fact is, every player on the Pens defence has had a significant injury this year, most still working through one. Letang gone. Maata & Daley injured right up until the playoffs. Dumolin is hurt. Schultz is hurt. Hainsey I think has brain damage. So yes, it would be great if they were playing better back there.

Pens played bad in game 1. They will have to play better to win the series. Pens haven't been lucky to get this far, they have scored more goals than their opponents.
- MacPatty

Yeah while every coach wants their team to be opportunistic, every coach wants their team to dictate the play of the games, to give themselves the most chances to be opportunistic. What I meant was being opportunistic while NOT controlling the flow of the game is not in a coach's gameplan (except maybe those Torts coached Rangers).

Being able to preform when it counts the most is not luck. Some people get lucky a few times. But with the frequency at which the pens do it it's not luck.
- Zac_O

Sure is. Lucky as (frank). All playoffs long.

Sure is. Lucky as (frank). All playoffs long.
- j.boyd919

This is what you call "using logic"? Maybe you're not liked because you're so full of yourself? But hey you do you buddy. We'll just tip toe around that giant head of yours.

Actually, not true at all. Over the regular season the Penguins had the highest amount of scoring chances in the NHL BUT they were also positive on those scoring chances more often than not, trading chances at around an equal rate while coming out on top. 2067 to 1862, at 52.61%. In the playoffs they also have the highest amount of scoring chances as well, but they are not coming out on top, Pens - 425, opposition - 494, or 46.25%.

This is not the same way they played during the regular season. They never got pinned in their own zone like they have been in the playoffs. In the regular season the games were wide open, trading chances. In the playoffs, the Pens get pinned into their own zone due to lack of skill on defense... Guys handling the puck like live grenades, dumping it off the boards and out, gving the puck back to the opposition as they regroup for another attack, then the Pens end up getting opportunistic on a lucky bounce or 10, and make the most of it. There is no (frank)ing coach in the league except maybe Torterella back with NYR that says "Lets sit back, block shots, and try to be opportunistic."

Sullivan says it time and time again that he's not happy with their puck possession, and their shot attempts. And the players say it time and time again "we got lucky" "not our best game" etc. It's so funny when you hear these words come from the coaches and players but a bunch of dolts on hockeybuzz can't acknowledge luck.
- j.boyd919

I find scoring chances a highly subjective stat. I think the graph you posted last blog said we said scoring chances were 19-13 last game (can't remember if that was ES or not) we didn't even have that many shots and I wouldn't call every one we did take a scoring chance. But that's just choosing which measurement.

Where we'll continue to disagree is when the play of the goalies is considered luck. The rest of the skaters can get outplayed, which of what happened particularly against Washington, but if one team's goalie is playong much better than the other, that is the ultimate equalizer. But because it doesn't fit the advanced stats narrituve it is labeled luck.

EDIT: I used shots per game instead of cf%, so ignore the first paragraph.

Being able to preform when it counts the most is not luck. Some people get lucky a few times. But with the frequency at which the pens do it it's not luck.
- Zac_O

I don't believe there's some mysterious force called "luck". I'd rather give the credit to the players.

No doubt they aren't playing as well and would be better off having the puck more. But their GF% is still right about 10% higher than their CF% so that measure is consistent.

I find scoring chances a highly subjective stat. I think the graph you posted last blog said we said scoring chances were 19-13 last game (can't remember if that was ES or not) we didn't even have that many shots and I wouldn't call every one we did take a scoring chance. But that's just choosing which measurement.

Where we'll continue to disagree is when the play of the goalies is considered luck. The rest of the skaters can get outplayed, which of what happened particularly against Washington, but if one team's goalie is playong much better than the other, that is the ultimate equalizer. But because it doesn't fit the advanced stats narrituve it is labeled luck.
- Tojo.

A whole lot of this.