Lol what about the pucks the guys flub and it still goes in the net? That would mean he skillfully accidentally had the puck bounce off of him into the net?
- YuenglingJagr

Now you get it. Glad I didn't have to waste my time explaining it to you.

You didn't really support your opinion with anything. What is your example of how much luck occurs in the NHL? Compared to the NBA?

Putting aside your "luck" commentary, I'd say hockey has the most parity due to it's salary cap. There is a trickle down effect from the cap, which affects performance and eventually drafting. But at the end of the day, I'd say the cap allows the NHL to showcase a product in which no team will be looked at as the GS Warriors (or Yankees).

IMO, the most important element to winning in each sport:
NFL - Coaching (close 2nd is Drafting)
MLB - Drafting
NHL - Drafting
NBA - Brokering a "Dream-Team"
- steelydan

The NBA has a salary cap and drafting is the most important aspect of all sports because all sports offer cheap labor for young players. If anything the draft is MORE important in the NBA because of the scarcity of star players.

You're disproving your own point. More parity = more luck. The NHL's playoffs are marketed (correctly) as "anything can happen" because anything can happen. The NBA markets based on players and their legacies: "Can the greatest player of our generation stop the greatest team of our generation?"

In a sport where very few shots go in the net, it makes sense that a lucky bounce could make a huge difference. In the NBA, there are more chances to score and a lot more scoring, so the cream rises to the top. It's just the nature of the two sports. It has little to do with the league itself

The only problem with that the way I see it is that it takes any excitement away from the regular season and most of the playoffs. I know it gets the league the prime time Finals matchup they want, but I can't think that a regular season that is essentially devoid of any suspense can't be good for the bottom line either.
- Sublime55

The NBA is the king of creating narratives. They'll turn a lot of their primetime games into special events.

Also, so much of the league is about building a team over the course of many seasons. Teams never go from being bad to winning championships in 2-3 years. You draft, develop, take your lumps then, if you're good enough, you break through. Most teams that are currently insignificant are trying to build to something great. There is general interest from fans about where teams are in the process.

The NBA is the king of creating narratives. They'll turn a lot of their primetime games into special events.

Also, so much of the league is about building a team over the course of many seasons. Teams never go from being bad to winning championships in 2-3 years. You draft, develop, take your lumps then, if you're good enough, you break through. Most teams that are currently insignificant are trying to build to something great. There is general interest from fans about where teams are in the process.
- PhillySportsGuy

The NBA is also hugely about the ability to spend money and retain your key players. OKC had to part with Harden or they would've had a nice 3 headed monster of Durant, Westbrook and Harden. If you look at championship teams actual payroll vs the cap. it's amazing how much over the cap they are. One year the Mavericks had a payroll of like $110 million on a $57 million cap. Warriors caught lightening in a bottle with the huge cap jump, but they are looking at massive payroll next year. Small market teams can't do that.

Lol what about the pucks the guys flub and it still goes in the net? That would mean he skillfully accidentally had the puck bounce off of him into the net?
- YuenglingJagr

He put himself into position to impact the play.

But back to the VL shot. Just because it was really close to going in and hit multiple posts it was no more "unlucky" than a shot that simply went wide. Both are just shots that didn't result in a goal. I understand the emotion that comes with the "close" ones but objectively there is no difference.

He put himself into position to impact the play.

But back to the VL shot. Just because it was really close to going in and hit multiple posts it was no more "unlucky" than a shot that simply went wide. Both are just shots that didn't result in a goal. I understand the emotion that comes with the "close" ones but objectively there is no difference.
- Scoob

If you're an emotionless husk who measures things only in a vacuum then sure

If one understands the NHL point system and math, there isn't any suspense regarding which teams will make the playoffs.
- Scoob

There seems to be some confusion....my comment was directed at the current state and competitive structure of the NBA, to continue off of Barkley's comment last night....not the NHL.

The NBA is also hugely about the ability to spend money and retain your key players. OKC had to part with Harden or they would've had a nice 3 headed monster of Durant, Westbrook and Harden. If you look at championship teams actual payroll vs the cap. it's amazing how much over the cap they are. One year the Mavericks had a payroll of like $110 million on a $57 million cap. Warriors caught lightening in a bottle with the huge cap jump, but they are looking at massive payroll next year. Small market teams can't do that.
- jstross

It's not about big market or small market. Highest payrolls are Cleveland, LAC, Memphis, Portland and Detroit. Most teams don't dip into the repeater tax. The Mavs example you gave was a rare occurrence where Cuban agreed to take on Jason Kidd to give them one last shot at a title. Carlisle and Dirk begged him to do it, so he did.

He put himself into position to impact the play.

But back to the VL shot. Just because it was really close to going in and hit multiple posts it was no more "unlucky" than a shot that simply went wide. Both are just shots that didn't result in a goal. I understand the emotion that comes with the "close" ones but objectively there is no difference.
- Scoob

Right, but the same could be argued for shots that go in the net.

I don't really care too much about trying to argue the luck of each shot. I think of it as more of a process vs result type deal. Really what it boils down to is I don't think Vinny is saying oh man I wish I didn't put that off all three posts. He wishes he hit the puck better, and I'm sure he would've felt the same no matter the result of that shot

If you're an emotionless husk who measures things only in a vacuum then sure
- Mordecai

lol..I said I understand the emotional aspect...I just don't call the close ones "unlucky"

Right, but the same could be argued for shots that go in the net.

I don't really care too much about trying to argue the luck of each shot. I think of it as more of a process vs result type deal. Really what it boils down to is I don't think Vinny is saying oh man I wish I didn't put that off all three posts. He wishes he hit the puck better, and I'm sure he would've felt the same no matter the result of that shot
- YuenglingJagr

Of course. My point is that I don't consider shots lucky/unlucky. They're all either successful or unsuccessful.

I thought the combine stuff was interesting....Patrick 11 pullups and Hischier 13 is very impressive. While Hischier could only get 145 lbs on the bench up 7 times.
Think it goes to show how strong these guys are in the hands and forearms....and I'd guess bench pressing isn't part of their workout regime

It's not about big market or small market. Highest payrolls are Cleveland, LAC, Memphis, Portland and Detroit. Most teams don't dip into the repeater tax. The Mavs example you gave was a rare occurrence where Cuban agreed to take on Jason Kidd to give them one last shot at a title. Carlisle and Dirk begged him to do it, so he did.
- PhillySportsGuy

I worded it poorly, but the Mavericks were hardly an exception. They're payroll as 2006 champs might be, but here are two quick examples. The exception was the Warriors, but they're payroll will be busted wide open next year. They should go to a hard cap like the NFL and Hockey with few exceptions.

2010 Cap $57.7 million. Champ Lakers - Payroll $91.4 million +$33.7 million
2011 Cap $58.1 million. Champ Mavs - Payroll $85.8 million + 26.3 million

Even if you think that Smith purposely ran into him, Murray was not stopping that
- YuenglingJagr

is that the rule though?

is that the rule though?
- stayinthefnnet

YEah. I feel the contact prevents the goalie from being able to make a save

I thought the combine stuff was interesting....Patrick 11 pullups and Hischier 13 is very impressive. While Hischier could only get 145 lbs on the bench up 7 times.
Think it goes to show how strong these guys are in the hands and forearms....and I'd guess bench pressing isn't part of their workout regime
- Just5

Patrick's nuts are big so pull-ups are difficult

Patrick's nuts are big so pull-ups are difficult
- YuenglingJagr

I wish you deleted this post instead of that one you deleted earlier

I wish you deleted this post instead of that one you deleted earlier
- Mononoke

I didn't have it in me for the other post. The latest one is something I would be willing to discuss

I thought the combine stuff was interesting....Patrick 11 pullups and Hischier 13 is very impressive. While Hischier could only get 145 lbs on the bench up 7 times.
Think it goes to show how strong these guys are in the hands and forearms....and I'd guess bench pressing isn't part of their workout regime
- Just5

They all need to spend the summer with Rod the Bod if you ask me.

I worded it poorly, but the Mavericks were hardly an exception. They're payroll as 2006 champs might be, but here are two quick examples. The exception was the Warriors, but they're payroll will be busted wide open next year. They should go to a hard cap like the NFL and Hockey with few exceptions.

2010 Cap $57.7 million. Champ Lakers - Payroll $91.4 million +$33.7 million
2011 Cap $58.1 million. Champ Mavs - Payroll $85.8 million + 26.3 million
- jstross

I used to think a hard cap would be good, but I'm now against it. The Durant thing was totally random and likely won't ever happen again. They were stupid for not doing cap smoothing, but other than that, it was a perfect storm type moment.

I think the NBA and NBAPA are going to put pressure on other teams to make lucrative offers to Iguodala and Livingston because the Warriors won't have ability to replace them if they leave.

It's estimated that it would cost $1.3B to keep that team together for the next 4 years. I know they're going to be printing money with their new arena coming, but that's still an astronomical amount. No way they pay that.

They all need to spend the summer with Rod the Bod if you ask me.
- hereticpride

6 days a week. No grab Assing there

I used to think a hard cap would be good, but I'm now against it. The Durant thing was totally random and likely won't ever happen again. They were stupid for not doing cap smoothing, but other than that, it was a perfect storm type moment.

I think the NBA and NBAPA are going to put pressure on other teams to make lucrative offers to Iguodala and Livingston because the Warriors won't have ability to replace them if they leave.

It's estimated that it would cost $1.3B to keep that team together for the next 4 years. I know they're going to be printing money with their new arena coming, but that's still an astronomical amount. No way they pay that.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think they have to do something, but as long as they make money they won't change it. The league makes it so hard on borderline teams in pergatory like the 76ers were. There's just not enough elite talent for bubble teams to draft 15-20 every year with no shot at the lottery. Almost a disincentive to b a borderline playoff team. Not sure how the Warriors keep Durant, Curry, Green, Thompson, Iggy et al with Durant and Curry about to get bazillions. Hopefully, we'll have this problem in 4 years.

Charles Barkley is just jumping ship to the NHL because he knows he's annoyed everyone in the NBA world

YEah. I feel the contact prevents the goalie from being able to make a save
- YuenglingJagr

i thought it was prevents the goalie from being able to play his position. i could be wrong though. if thats it, as much as it hinges on semantics, there is a difference.

Charles Barkley is just jumping ship to the NHL because he knows he's annoyed everyone in the NBA world
- Coburns_Nose

Chuck is funny as heck. the others are just sooooo boring.