I highly doubt McPhee made the moves he did without consulting with the owner first. It's pretty clear they are taking the "build through the draft" approach.
- buffalofan19

I agree ... they are going the tanking route.

But I think they could have gotten more from teams by selecting Dumba and Manson and then trading them to other teams.

I would seriously fire George McPhee. He's lucky the Vegas owner knows nothing about hockey. He could have selected players like Vantanen, Manson and Dumba and ends up making trades for players like Clarkson and Grabovski?? Total joke. That team will be out of Vegas in 10 years.

And the NHL totally screwed up that announcement last night. So boring. And why couldn't they announce the trades that they have already made??
- Matthews_Auston

Yea, The whole thing was botched. The NHL botched it by allowing this to happen, McPhee botched this by his terrible side deal strategy.

Take the players available and flip them to other teams, He would have gotten a hell of a lot more in terms of picks and prospects.

FTFY

Yeah a little odd.. but hey, maybe they won't be good in 3 years.
- TheSabresTaco

Yeah good point on Ullmark. Rutherford probably thinks he'll be gone by then

I would seriously fire George McPhee. He's lucky the Vegas owner knows nothing about hockey. He could have selected players like Vantanen, Manson and Dumba and ends up making trades for players like Clarkson and Grabovski?? Total joke. That team will be out of Vegas in 10 years.

And the NHL totally screwed up that announcement last night. So boring. And why couldn't they announce the trades that they have already made??
- Matthews_Auston

Building through draft man. There's no elite players on that team. When was the last expansion team to even play in the playoffs the year they were created?

I agree ... they are going the tanking route.

But I think they could have gotten more from teams by selecting Dumba and Manson and then trading them to other teams.
- Matthews_Auston

It's interesting. The NHL put the expansion rules in place in an attempt to make Las Vegas a more competitive team than any expansion team in the past. Instead, Las Vegas used the rules to empty a whole bunch of teams' prospect cupboards.

I'm not mad about the Sabres losing a 6th rounder in general, but the concept of giving up something for not really getting anything in return makes no sense to me. If you don't want to lose a guy that badly, then protect him. Otherwise, live with it and figure out how to replace him.

I agree ... they are going the tanking route.

But I think they could have gotten more from teams by selecting Dumba and Manson and then trading them to other teams.
- Matthews_Auston

Who's to say they would trade them if they picked them?

I highly doubt McPhee made the moves he did without consulting with the owner first. It's pretty clear they are taking the "build through the draft" approach.
- buffalofan19

The build through the draft strategy worked well for Regier

Who's to say they would trade them if they picked them?
- TheSabresTaco

I think the point is, if you are looking to build through the draft, then pick the players that will get you the most future assets in return.

That being said, you also have to field a 23-man roster as well.

The build through the draft strategy worked well for Regier
- mattmoulson

The strategy itself wasn't the issue. You still have to draft well, which he didn't.

Bots did a nice job last night. Paid pennies to keep a more important player. It's too bad we couldn't get rid of Ennis (only realistic high paid player) but it's clear that:

A) McPhee wanted Ullmark
B) Ennis (or other player besides Carrier) wasn't going to stop McPhee from picking Ullmark
C) The price to take those big contracts was unreasonable to Bots

The right decision was made in my mind. However, I'm curious as to the cost of unloading our major 3 undesired contracts. My guess is Moulson was a 1st, Bogo, Ennis a 2nd.

I agree ... they are going the tanking route.

But I think they could have gotten more from teams by selecting Dumba and Manson and then trading them to other teams.
- Matthews_Auston

Winnipeg absolutely hosed Mcphee. Vegas moves up 11 spots in exchange for Thorburn? What a terrible deal. Why did they make a deal with the jets at All? They could have gotten a better deal off the expansion list

Who's to say they would trade them if they picked them?
- TheSabresTaco

You're missing the point. If they picked those players then they would obviously be fielding a stronger team which is what the league was hoping for.

Bots did a nice job last night. Paid pennies to keep a more important player. It's too bad we couldn't get rid of Ennis (only realistic high paid player) but it's clear that:

A) McPhee wanted Ullmark
B) Ennis (or other player besides Carrier) wasn't going to stop McPhee from picking Ullmark
C) The price to take those big contracts was unreasonable to Bots

The right decision was made in my mind. However, I'm curious as to the cost of unloading our major 3 undesired contracts. My guess is Moulson was a 1st, Bogo, Ennis a 2nd.
- TheSabresTaco

Minny's 2nd should have been moved if that was the case.

Winnipeg absolutely hosed Mcphee. Vegas moves up 11 spots in exchange for Thorburn? What a terrible deal. Why did they make a deal with the jets at All? They could have gotten a better deal off the expansion list
- jcragcrumple

And that's my point exactly

And that's my point exactly
- Matthews_Auston

That's why I commented on it

The strategy itself wasn't the issue. You still have to draft well, which he didn't.
- buffalofan19

Especially in the NHL a proven commodity is more valuable than a pick outside the top 10

Ok, but if the defenseman is actually in position(that would come with having better defensemen) and the goalie knows where he's going to be a 2 on 1, with the majority of the players in the league, is a save.

And if there are more puck movers that means the puck leaves the zone faster and there's less getting stuck running around in the zone and getting lost because they suck at defense. Leading to a wide open net that Jesus himself couldn't get across in time to make a save on.

Getting better defensemen does mean getting better at defense.

I would like to see how Ristolainen does when he's not stuck playing 2nd goalie in the slot. Maybe he'd score at 5v5? The talent is certainly there given his play on the PP, and it's not like he's too slow ala Franson to be just a PP specialist.
- Wetbandit1

Thank you for saying literally all of this.

I've been sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out why all of a sudden our defense is going to be WORSE. I get that there will be a different style played than we've seen the last few years. But the premise that things could be worse, that I'm not buying.

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account
@TSNBobMcKenzie
Any team that is looking for D -- MTL, BUF etc -- would surely have interest in Scandella or other MIN D, but is there a good fit?

The build through the draft strategy worked well for Regier
- mattmoulson

If you employ a real staff and you're actually a smart GM, this strategy is far and away the best option.

Let's take a look at some black hole years that (frank)ed this franchise up beyond repair (hence the tank)

We'll start with recent history. Eh.. let's say 2005.

2005: Chris Butler, Nathan Gerbe
2006: Enroth, Weber
2007: Byron
2008: Ennis, Myers
2009: McNabb, Foligno
2010: Pysyk
2011: *Crickets* (Joel "Selke" Armia)
2012: Grigorenko, Girgensons, Ullmark
2013: Risto, Zadorov, Compher, Bailey, Baptiste, Petersen - Finally, a great draft! You're fired!

Here's a list of NHL and "NHL" players. This right here is why we still suck.

You're missing the point. If they picked those players then they would obviously be fielding a stronger team which is what the league was hoping for.
- Matthews_Auston

The league, yeah, but who knows if they fit PhicMee's vision. It seems to me he sees more value in the routes he took than simply taking the player he wanted. Hence, he bargained with teams to pay a price to keep their players. Likely overpaying Vegas not to take certain individuals.

Here are the Vegas Knight D men and their ages, except maybe Griffin Reinhart and Shea Theodore the rest are on an NHL team. So I would expect the rest (11 guys) to be more like 6. So I would expect at least 5 of these players to be moving. With FA and trades back, I can see them trading more than 5. Most of the guys listed below have 1 year left on their deal (only 2 have more than 1 year left), which spells trade to me.

Methot, Marc 32
Garrison, Jason 32
Emelin, Alexei 31
Sbisa, Luca 27
Stoner, Clayton 32
Schlemko, David 30
McNabb, Brayden 26
Merrill, Jon 25
Miller, Colin 24
Engelland, Deryk 35
Theodore, Shea 21
Van Riemsdyk, Trevor 25
Reinhart, Griffin 23
Schmidt, Nate 25

The strategy itself wasn't the issue. You still have to draft well, which he didn't.
- buffalofan19

Proper identification of the composition/division fallacy. Handled well, well played.

https://yourlogicalfallac....com/composition-division

If you employ a real staff and you're actually a smart GM, this strategy is far and away the best option.

Let's take a look at some black hole years that (frank)ed this franchise up beyond repair (hence the tank)

We'll start with recent history. Eh.. let's say 2005.

2005: Chris Butler, Nathan Gerbe
2006: Enroth, Weber
2007: Byron
2008: Ennis, Myers
2009: McNabb, Foligno
2010: Pysyk
2011: *Crickets* (Joel "Selke" Armia)
2012: Grigorenko, Girgensons, Ullmark
2013: Risto, Zadorov, Compher, Bailey, Baptiste, Petersen - Finally, a great draft! You're fired!

Here's a list of NHL and "NHL" players. This right here is why we still suck.
- TheSabresTaco

I'm pretty sure this draft is more Kevin Devine's doing than it was Regier's. He's still around in the organization I think, but when Murray came in he was shifted to a different role. Not sure what happened after Murray and haven't looked it up at all.

Here are the Vegas Knight D men and their ages, except maybe Griffin Reinhart and Shea Theodore the rest are on an NHL team. So I would expect the rest (11 guys) to be more like 6. So I would expect at least 5 of these players to be moving. With FA and trades back, I can see them trading more than 5. Most of the guys listed below have 1 year left on their deal (only 2 have more than 1 year left), which spells trade to me.

Methot, Marc 32
Garrison, Jason 32
Emelin, Alexei 31
Sbisa, Luca 27
Stoner, Clayton 32
Schlemko, David 30
McNabb, Brayden 26
Merrill, Jon 25
Miller, Colin 24
Engelland, Deryk 35
Theodore, Shea 21
Van Riemsdyk, Trevor 25
Reinhart, Griffin 23
Schmidt, Nate 25
- Lilroot9

Garrison could be an interesting pick up, but I think I'd want Vegas to keep some of his cap.

I'm pretty sure this draft is more Kevin Devine's doing than it was Regier's. He's still around in the organization I think, but when Murray came in he was shifted to a different role. Not sure what happened after Murray and haven't looked it up at all.
- HonkFortheGoose

Considering Regeir was the reason we had multiple 1st and 2nd round picks, I'd say the credit goes to the man in charge