I like where you're going with this...
- grinder10

This is where I am torn about Kero. Last two years he is consistently 44-45% in the regular season and 56-59% in the playoffs.

If he is a keeper, then the center situation is not that bad, and it is all about who rounds out the bottom six on the wings. Even better if Schmaltz could win more draws (still see him at best as a 3C right now). I think Hartman is a no-brainer, Hino has the speed, Jurco is an as of yet unkown quantity in this system, Tootoo is what he is - a grinder but not as fast as you would like. Maybe Fortin....maybe DeBrincat gets his debut on the lower half....

But $3MM for Wingels.....pricey. I'd rather invest in a vet D, vet C (Boyle, Jumbo, Winnik), and/or 2LW. I am seeing the vets coming via UFA more than trades.

murphy is a project. Young, raw, but flawed and needs to quickly get the curve up in his development.

Kempny, Rutta, Frosling....all still unknowns. Rutta is projected be a bottom tiered pairing by many scouts. The other 2? I like Frosling over Kempny but time will tell.

Like Saad coming back...no question.

Hawks just lost their best defensive defensemen, top PK d man, so impossible for me to like that deal.

Once upon a time the Hakws had a big guy who could skate like the wind and win board battles....his name was Ben Eager.....

- SteveRain

Hey Rainman...

still don't get the Hammer - lost a step - I think some folks are fantasizing him away - as you said you just lost your best defensive defenseman. And made another significant move and you're sitting exactly where you were in regard to the cap. Losing #4 doesn't help you if you're trying to win a cup this year.

Can the Murphy kid put if together as well as some of the other kids on the back end - you're praying that Ulf is going to make that happen. No question those kids are going to play. Meanwhile #2 and #7 will play even more minutes if that's possible.

Meanwhile you're NMC deals and overpays for past performance are still hanging over you. You still need to upgrade Kane's line having subtracted Panarin not to mention the loss of Hossa to this team...a huge blow and how that works out cap wise...

And if we're looking big picture here - the Pens will be able to go shopping with money they just got rid of in Fleury to Vegas...plus they get Letang back.
Bowman's got his work cut out for him.

Would love seeing Duchene's speed and skill wearing the Indianhead. How is he at the dot?
- isu83boo

Last two seasons north of 55%

JJ, totally agree with your write up. We are faster and younger and we have a better potential backup goalie in our system than we had before.

I hope we see Krueger and AA moved with other pieces to open up some money to bring in a quality center with youth, speed, and skill at the dot.

Last two seasons north of 55%
- DutchSenators

>In Hoss and Hammer, Hawks have lost two elite players who are actually better people than hockey players
>Don't think for a moment that the Hammer trade wasn't the hardest to make of Bowman's career
>But understand these trades show that the organization did its homework on what moves would achieve what JJ outlined: younger, cheaper, faster
>It also shows the organization no longer trusts Bettman's "Bernie Madoff" cap forecasts
>Value for value deals usually split public opinion, like these two have
>With the loss of Hoss and Hammer, this will not only be a defining year for Toews on the ice, but also inside the locker room, as well
>I think #19 is up to the challenge
- SnapitUpstairs

As usual great post Snap. Agree with every word.

I am not here to get in a pissing contest with you. Was Murphy a third pairing guy?
- Savoy

There is no pissing contest. And if you're not here to have one, then don't start with all this "spin" crap, K?

So, to answer your question: ummm, is Rozsival a "first pairing guy", or Rundblad? Because both played extensive periods with Keith.

There is so much stupid, false equivalency that gets thrown out, completely ignorant of context, that people use because it's easier or faster than sitting back and really looking at the actual skills and deficiencies of the player and what each team is trying to do—or not having an immediate "hot take."

Ignorant of context, like, on the Arizona board the asinine argument that was set forth that somehow Chicago missed the boat on Rundblad because of his amazing possession numbers part of one season in Chicago (when he was carried by Keith, just like Kemeny's numbers last year were inflated by his partner, Seabrook).

Or that Seabrook is worse than the "great Cody Franson."

Or that Oliver Ekman Larsson is a generational defense talent.

Etc.

And I don't KNOW that this is all gonna work out swimmingly for the Hawks because there is more to hockey than just speed.

But I DO KNOW they are a faster team today and because of Saad (at minimum) that should open some things up that weren't there the last couple of years.

The lost leadership and locker room chemistry? That is harder to project.

As for Murphy and evaluations on the Arizona board, I remember when the Hawks got Anisimov, he was "at best a defensive, 3rd line center," hell that's what I sorta thought, because that's where he had really played for the most part to that point in his career.

He comes to a different team with different line mates and suddenly, he's an offensive force.

Murphy? Kid was drafted 20th overall in a GOOD draft year, was heavily scouted and played in all the major junior and international situations, he's big, can skate, can make a quick first pass, has some nasty, has some shutdown ability, is just 24.

How or where he was used on a dogmeat Arizona team last year is almost immaterial to me. A lot of defensemen take a long time to fully develop, too.

Same with Dauphin, who I have been aware of since his draft year, and I know the Hawks wanted to take him late in the second round that year before AZ scooped him up.

So how he did, as a rookie with a dogmeat Arizona team, or the fact that he only had 4 points in part of a season—I don't care.

Because this I know about the kid, at every level of hockey, he has been a competitor who plays bigger than his size, wins pucks, and can fly.

People assume when Bowman makes these trades he like closes his eyes and reaches into a bag and pulls out whatever the opposing GM has in there. The Hawks have scouted these guys for years, not just as pros but when they were coming up.

That is no guarantee of success in Chicago, but just because Chicago fans don't know these guys and can only go by their experience in a bad situation in Arizona early in their careers, that doesn't mean they'll suck in Chicago. Both guys have legitimate NHL ability in important areas. Skating is a common thread, too.

Don't talk about fancy stats. Here's a really bad hockey cliche about speed.

I think I'll trust the same organization that got Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Richard Panik and Nick Leddy for JUNK more than some clown poster. Hawks have shown remarkable ability to get players JUST LIKE Murphy, who have pedigree that haven't put it together quite yet. Like JJ said, they aren't just grabbing in a bag, I bet they like this kid and think he can be a player for them. I'll trust the men with the skins on the wall on this one.

Don't talk about fancy stats. Here's a really bad hockey cliche about speed.
- Blackstrom2

Wrong.

if you played hockey at any level above peewee, tell me how speed is not a factor. With specifics. Please.

And fancy stats are only valuable when you consider context. See the post above.

You win 15 second drive-by hot take of the day, go get your gift bag.

I was directing the question to JJ. Does it make sense that the folks over on the Arizona board know more collectively about their own team than anybody from the Chicago board might?
- Savoy

FWIW....good friend (played and watches a lot of hockey) has a winter home in Arizona and season tickets to the Coyotes. Told me Friday morning how much he likes Murphy's game. And this guy is an Oiler fan.

Hey Rainman...

still don't get the Hammer - lost a step - I think some folks are fantasizing him away - as you said you just lost your best defensive defenseman. And made another significant move and you're sitting exactly where you were in regard to the cap. Losing #4 doesn't help you if you're trying to win a cup this year.

Can the Murphy kid put if together as well as some of the other kids on the back end - you're praying that Ulf is going to make that happen. No question those kids are going to play. Meanwhile #2 and #7 will play even more minutes if that's possible.

Meanwhile you're NMC deals and overpays for past performance are still hanging over you. You still need to upgrade Kane's line having subtracted Panarin not to mention the loss of Hossa to this team...a huge blow and how that works out cap wise...

And if we're looking big picture here - the Pens will be able to go shopping with money they just got rid of in Fleury to Vegas...plus they get Letang back.
Bowman's got his work cut out for him.
- DK002

Yeah I find it laughable how many dismiss hammer. How many think saad is a 40 g scorer and will magically be flying down the left side like the wind. Has to have the puck first and let's see how that develops.

Hawks traded/lost 3 elite players. Got 1 back and 2 guys this board wants to live because they are fast and young. Hopefully they pan out.

Hawks still over the cap have to sign forsberg at least. Maybe jurco. They man end up under the cap so they can slide hossa on LTIR and accrue money to fix holes in season.

See what's next but let's hope more moves.

I was directing the question to JJ. Does it make sense that the folks over on the Arizona board know more collectively about their own team than anybody from the Chicago board might?
- Savoy

REPEAT:

Kid was drafted 20th overall in a GOOD draft year, was heavily scouted and played in all the major junior and international situations, he's big, can skate, can make a quick first pass, has some nasty, has some shutdown ability, is just 24.

Plug him in with Keith, maybe he'll be as good as (or better than!) The UnderAppreciated Rundblad was with Keith (red font on).

Yeah I find it laughable how many dismiss hammer. How many think saad is a 40 g scorer and will magically be flying down the left side like the wind. Has to have the puck first and let's see how that develops.

Hawks traded/lost 3 elite players. Got 1 back and 2 guys this board wants to live because they are fast and young. Hopefully they pan out.

Hawks still over the cap have to sign forsberg at least. Maybe jurco. They man end up under the cap so they can slide hossa on LTIR and accrue money to fix holes in season.

See what's next but let's hope more moves.
- SteveRain

I appreciate your critical analysis Steve. I may not agree, but it's well thought out. That said, the reason I am not more on your side is because of your very last statement...I think there will be more moves. THEN we can judge everything in context.

Yeah I find it laughable how many dismiss hammer. How many think saad is a 40 g scorer and will magically be flying down the left side like the wind. Has to have the puck first and let's see how that develops.

Hawks traded/lost 3 elite players. Got 1 back and 2 guys this board wants to live because they are fast and young. Hopefully they pan out.

Hawks still over the cap have to sign forsberg at least. Maybe jurco. They man end up under the cap so they can slide hossa on LTIR and accrue money to fix holes in season.

See what's next but let's hope more moves.
- SteveRain

Agreed on Hammer, but after Saad left, the guys who got him the puck were still the same, but he wasn't there. What happened?

REPEAT:

Kid was drafted 20th overall in a GOOD draft year, was heavily scouted and played in all the major junior and international situations, he's big, can skate, can make a quick first pass, has some nasty, has some shutdown ability, is just 24.

Plug him in with Keith, maybe he'll be as good as (or better than!) The UnderAppreciated Rundblad was with Keith (red font on).
- John Jaeckel

JJ, you really want to Texas two-step with that guy?

BTW-There is ZERO chance he will be as bad as Rundblad.

>In Hoss and Hammer, Hawks have lost two elite players who are actually better people than hockey players
>Don't think for a moment that the Hammer trade wasn't the hardest to make of Bowman's career
>But understand these trades show that the organization did its homework on what moves would achieve what JJ outlined: younger, cheaper, faster
>It also shows the organization no longer trusts Bettman's "Bernie Madoff" cap forecasts
>Value for value deals usually split public opinion, like these two have
>With the loss of Hoss and Hammer, this will not only be a defining year for Toews on the ice, but also inside the locker room, as well
>I think #19 is up to the challenge
- SnapitUpstairs

David Haugh in today's Tribune related this incident at (I guess) yesterday's presser:

According to David Haugh in today's Trib: As Blackhawks first-round draft pick Henri Jokiharju entered a room full of reporters late Friday night at the United Center, he felt someone grab his arm.

Jonathan Toews wanted to pull Jokiharju aside briefly to do what good captains do. Toews made eye contact. Then he left a lasting impression. "They will give you my number so call me if you need anything at all,'' Toews told the 18-year-old who appeared in awe of his future teammate.

Very captain-like.

I think I'll trust the same organization that got Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Richard Panik and Nick Leddy for JUNK more than some clown poster. Hawks have shown remarkable ability to get players JUST LIKE Murphy, who have pedigree that haven't put it together quite yet. Like JJ said, they aren't just grabbing in a bag, I bet they like this kid and think he can be a player for them. I'll trust the men with the skins on the wall on this one.
- kwolf68

And in fairness, the Hawks have missed on some guys too.

I just think there are physical attributes and a body of work larger than the Trainwreck of Arizona with both of the kids they got back that suggest they might have gotten some immediate, and long term, value. How much remains to be seen.

Wrong.

if you played hockey at any level above peewee, tell me how speed is not a factor. With specifics. Please.

And fancy stats are only valuable when you consider context. See the post above.

You win 15 second drive-by hot take of the day, go get your gift bag.
- John Jaeckel

I'll say this and end on Murphy. Bowman has really gambled here. If Murphy pans out....great trade. Young top 4 guy.

Murphy bombs and becomes a liability this team is in deep crap. You weakended short Term for a long term hope. Bowman and his scouts are a helluva smarter then me but alli see is a rebuild on the fly without using the toxic word rebuild.

Still have no cap space so let's wait until mid July to finally judge this all.

Big challenge ahead for 19 getting room to gel, 88 to produce at high level with more musical chairs and 50 to bail out a questionable d corps.

JJ, you really want to Texas two-step with that guy?

BTW-There is ZERO chance he will be as bad as Rundblad.
- kwolf68

I know, I was being highly facetious there.

And in fairness, the Hawks have missed on some guys too.

I just think there are physical attributes and a body of work larger than the Trainwreck of Arizona with both of the kids they got back that suggest they might have gotten some immediate, and long term, value. How much remains to be seen.
- John Jaeckel

Let's hope a change of scenery helps. Have to assume he will be paired with 2

I'll say this and end on Murphy. Bowman has really gambled here. If Murphy pans out....great trade. Young top 4 guy.

Murphy bombs and becomes a liability this team is in deep crap. You weakended short Term for a long term hope. Bowman and his scouts are a helluva smarter then me but alli see is a rebuild on the fly without using the toxic word rebuild.

Still have no cap space so let's wait until mid July to finally judge this all.

Big challenge ahead for 19 getting room to gel, 88 to produce at high level with more musical chairs and 50 to bail out a questionable d corps.
- SteveRain

No argument. I just don't think the is like getting Rundblad or Pokka or really even Daley.

He's big, he can skate and he is a shutdown guy (by style). There's not a big "bust factor" or "downside" there. He should be . . . at least OK.

And let's be clear, what Hammer brought was shutdown ability, a toughness and an ability to step up when the stakes were highest. But he was never what you'd call a good offensive contributor.

Savoy - Yes USA Hockey must have looked at how absolutely awful Murphy was in naming him the freakin' CAPTAIN of the 2017 USA Hockey Team.

Savoy - Yes USA Hockey must have looked at how absolutely awful Murphy was in naming him the freakin' CAPTAIN of the 2017 USA Hockey Team.
- Z3Hawk

No, he was "third pair" in Arizona last year. He sucks. End of story.

Savoy - Yes USA Hockey must have looked at how absolutely awful Murphy was in naming him the freakin' CAPTAIN of the 2017 USA Hockey Team.
- Z3Hawk

But the Coaches of Team USA were not

Coach Tanner
Coach Savoy

That's the only reason.