Not impressed any longer with him.... JMO.....
He did nothing in the Final, looked worn out.
- Hawkytalk

Power forwards like Neal fall off much quicker than other players. When they start to decline the fall is quick and far........ Agreed, of course depending on salary and compensation, I'd look elsewhere..... Really like to see the Hawks look at Hartnell if he's bought out.

Power forwards like Neal fall off much quicker than other players. When they start to decline the fall is quick and far........ Agreed, of course depending on salary and compensation, I'd look elsewhere..... Really like to see the Hawks look at Hartnell if he's bought out.
- Mr Ricochet

Lets just stop the Neal talk. He did Zilch in the PO's this year - do we need another guy that produces during the season and disappears in the PO's - case closed!!!

You... uh.... hmmm....

Also, this was the first time I had seen the bonus overage numbers calculated, so I thought I'd share. I don't get the hostility.
- BINGO!

It's because the bonus overage is a well known thing around here. It's also been calculated before, including by CapFriendly.

Many of us knew that the day RS ended. Much chatter about Panarin's A&B bonuses.
- blackhawk24

That's fair enough, I just had never seen it actually calculated out.

With the talk of McJesus pending $13.0M deal I thought it would be a fun exercise to see where our heads were at on the day of the 10.8 twin cap killers.

Here is JJ's blog and 1100+ comments. This is worth a read. JJ's comments on the contracts and more importantly the talent pool seem to be spot on.
(Have any winning lottery numbers in that crystal ball of yours)

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=61204
- riozzo

rio,

Thanks for your support and presence here.

This is the second "oldie but goodie" someone has gone back and dug up theist couple of days (other was on Twitter).

Funny, you can predict some things (like the impending cap/roster hell) bot not necessarily which prospects would pan out and which wouldn't. Bottom line though. no, that batch of prospects was never replacing" the core guys, nor is the current batch.

This summer is another turning point. Bowman is getting back, relatively speaking, to cap reality, making unpopular moves but at the same time hoping to keep the team competitive. Tough job but he and the organization have earned that job.

So far, I give them an Incomplete grade. All depends on what they do here in the next couple of weeks at minimum. Maybe they can hold out til the fall or during the season to add another piece with Hossa's money.

Lets just stop the Neal talk. He did Zilch in the PO's this year - do we need another guy that produces during the season and disappears in the PO's - case closed!!!
- glennjpawlak22

To be fair, he had a broken hand.

You... uh.... hmmm....

Also, this was the first time I had seen the bonus overage numbers calculated, so I thought I'd share. I don't get the hostility.
- BINGO!

Hey Bingo - no worries. You just need to understand that as Hawks fans - our collective psyches are like a rat - trapped in a cage known as the salary cap - and each player contract, NMC/NTC clause, and performance bonus is collectively like a stick jabbing at that rat incessantly. So... yeah...

Bowman now needs to hope, if not pray, that from among Teravainen, Mark McNeill, Philip Danault, Joakim Nordstrom, Ryan Hartman, Stephen Johns, Jeremy Morin, Klas Dahlbeck, Adam Clendening, and Nick Schmaltz at least a few quality NHL players emerge in the next 1-3 years.

Not a bad hit rate at all with the luxury of hindsight.
- Mr Ricochet

I'm gonna argue back he did not get enough out of that group or the Hawks would've been playing longer in the playoffs and he wouldn't need to retool this offseason.

That was the thing, the big salary commitments meant to stay at the same level of competitiveness, the Hawks needed the young guys to step up and develop as low priced depth—that has not happened or has not happened enough. It's not to blame the kids so much as it was just a bad position to put yourself in.

To be fair, he had a broken hand.
- JRoenick97

Fair point - thx.....i still say Pass

Hey Bingo - no worries. You just need to understand that as Hawks fans - our collective psyches are like a rat - trapped in a cage known as the salary cap - and each player contract, NMC/NTC clause, and performance bonus is collectively like a stick jabbing at that rat incessantly. So... yeah...
- Chief4Feathers

I don't get it. I'd just be shrugging it all off like "Yep, that's the price of a mini-dynasty I guess."

Watch, when this happens there is going to be some CBA change that allows teams to hide some salary on players they draft........
- powerenforcer

My first thought too...... Something has to change with the next CBA and when this flat (earth) cap situation screws a budding Canadian dynasty it would be the impetus to change things up.

I don't get it. I'd just be shrugging it all off like "Yep, that's the price of a mini-dynasty I guess."
- BINGO!

When one's team wins 3 titles in 6 seasons, there is desire to win even more.

You mean the same 5 on 5 scoring they'll get from Saad...AND someone that plays 200ft, plays the PK and goes to the traffic areas without the puck?
- PatShart

I just think it's silly to say "replace all the offense." Bowman himself said it at the draft. We're not "replacing" those guys. The guys being brought in bring different things.

Savoy will probably never see this, because he wants to convince us all the franchise will be defunct soon, but . . .

Maybe the BIGGEST reason the Hawks have been a deadly regular season team and a terrible playoff team was because 40-45% of their offense came from one line. So you can win against the average NHL team most nights that way. But, in the playoffs, against the good ones who go 2-3 lines and especially two D pairing deep, you will be stopped on that line (which is EXACTLY what's happened the last two years).

We can condemn Toews that he "needs" a Saad to get going, that's a separate argument, but, if the Hawks, through this swap and getting Saad back with Toews, can get balanced scoring from their top 2 lines, they should be a better playoff team.

Not to mention, Saad's added dimension of speed expands the ice north to south and at least somewhat opens things up more for linemates, plays PK, etc.

I don't get it. I'd just be shrugging it all off like "Yep, that's the price of a mini-dynasty I guess."
- BINGO!

Well, yes - that's a balanced perspective.

But do you think a Roman centurion was thinking to himself "well, it was a good empire while it lasted" as he was hacking back at the barbarian hordes? It's just human nature my friend.

I'm gonna argue back he did not get enough out of that group or the Hawks would've been playing longer in the playoffs and he wouldn't need to retool this offseason.

That was the thing, the big salary commitments meant to stay at the same level of competitiveness, the Hawks needed the young guys to step up and develop as low priced depth—that has not happened or has not happened enough. It's not to blame the kids so much as it was just a bad position to put yourself in.
- John Jaeckel

Oh no doubt, the point I'm making was at that time it showed the Hawks drafted well, accumulated nice players that in the near future were going to be useful. ..... No doubt the Hawks moved players at the TDL's for a chance to win the cup and had to use some as sweeteners to offload bad money.

Asset management, man. I love watching Stevie Y operate in TB. The two franchises mirror each other in many ways with the talent depth, Hawks more so 4-5 yrs ago than now, and the battle with the cap.......... Stevie Y has no cups, yet?, but works the cap and his assets like a fiddle.

Watch, when this happens there is going to be some CBA change that allows teams to hide some salary on players they draft........
- powerenforcer

So you're saying a small market Canadian team going into cap hell is going to help change the CBA?

Hmmm....

Some sort of soft cap for own drafted players resigning would be interesting. NBA does that IIRC. Something needs to give for the 'Hawks next CBA.

You chill out, YIKES!

Last season has nothing to do with this next season. The Hawks know the situation and are working on it. And us fans know what is going on. This is what happens when you win Cups and pay big deals. All you have offered is doom and gloom. If you have nothing other than YIKES the Hawks are (frank)ed, then move along.
- kwolf68

Couldn't agree more getting pretty sick and tired of other teams fans coming here to point out the obvious, the hawks have cap issues. wow like we didnt' know. I guess when no other teams board is as active as ours they have nothing else to do.

I don't get it. I'd just be shrugging it all off like "Yep, that's the price of a mini-dynasty I guess."
- BINGO!

I will quote Gordon Gecko "Greed is good". No one wants to see the ride end. We still have some serious top end talent and should be competitive for a few more years. The Cap and bonus overages hinder that and it isn't really frustrating.

Oh no doubt, the point I'm making was at that time it showed the Hawks drafted well, accumulated nice players that in the near future were going to be useful. ..... No doubt the Hawks moved players at the TDL's for a chance to win the cup and had to use some as sweeteners to offload bad money.

Asset management, man. I love watching Stevie Y operate in TB. The two franchises mirror each other in many ways with the talent depth, Hawks more so 4-5 yrs ago than now, and the battle with the cap.......... Stevie Y has no cups, yet?, but works the cap and his assets like a fiddle.
- Mr Ricochet

Yes, I commented on this a few articles ago. You have to respect how Stevie Y handles his business. The Stamkos resigning, the Drouin "pouting" situation, etc. - he handles them all with a firm, business-like approach. If the Hawks ever moved away from Stan - he'd be top of my list to be the next Hawks GM.

I just think it's silly to say "replace all the offense." Bowman himself said it at the draft. We're not "replacing" those guys. The guys being brought in bring different things.

Savoy will probably never see this, because he wants to convince us all the franchise will be defunct soon, but . . .

Maybe the BIGGEST reason the Hawks have been a deadly regular season team and a terrible playoff team was because 40-45% of their offense came from one line. So you can win against the average NHL team most nights that way. But, in the playoffs, against the good ones who go 2-3 lines and especially two D pairing deep, you will be stopped on that line (which is EXACTLY what's happened the last two years).

We can condemn Toews that he "needs" a Saad to get going, that's a separate argument, but, if the Hawks, through this swap and getting Saad back with Toews, can get balanced scoring from their top 2 lines, they should be a better playoff team.

Not to mention, Saad's added dimension of speed expands the ice north to south and at least somewhat opens things up more for linemates, plays PK, etc.
- John Jaeckel

With you, JJ.

In my opinion, Saad brings a totally different game and set of skills the Hawks need--speed, strength and tall-around 200 foot game. He's proven he plays well in the Hawks system and it'll be nice to have him back.

Yes, Panarin scored a lot for the Hawks, but I'll take a more well-rounded player who can create/generate opportunities and has the ability to play a more complete game.

I'd say Panarin is a pretty incredible talent and more or a pure scoring threat, but Saad is multi-dimensional and brings more weapons to the ice--not to mention, he can also find the back of the net.

I just think it's silly to say "replace all the offense." Bowman himself said it at the draft. We're not "replacing" those guys. The guys being brought in bring different things.

Savoy will probably never see this, because he wants to convince us all the franchise will be defunct soon, but . . .

Maybe the BIGGEST reason the Hawks have been a deadly regular season team and a terrible playoff team was because 40-45% of their offense came from one line. So you can win against the average NHL team most nights that way. But, in the playoffs, against the good ones who go 2-3 lines and especially two D pairing deep, you will be stopped on that line (which is EXACTLY what's happened the last two years).

We can condemn Toews that he "needs" a Saad to get going, that's a separate argument, but, if the Hawks, through this swap and getting Saad back with Toews, can get balanced scoring from their top 2 lines, they should be a better playoff team.

Not to mention, Saad's added dimension of speed expands the ice north to south and at least somewhat opens things up more for linemates, plays PK, etc.
- John Jaeckel

Doesn't their horse hockey 5X5 performance especially on those 3 lesser lines make it difficult in the SCPO

So you're saying a small market Canadian team going into cap hell is going to help change the CBA?

Hmmm....

Some sort of soft cap for own drafted players resigning would be interesting. NBA does that IIRC. Something needs to give for the 'Hawks next CBA.
- blackhawk24

NHL was set up to help buoy the small market teams, including the ones in Canada. They helped bolster the league when the CAD was high, but currently each Canadian team has to generate 25% more revenue than their U.S. brethren to have the same buying power/impact.

The CBA was built specifically to create situations like what the Hawks are now going through.

Chicago with a $3.5 Million cap overage penalty heading into next season.

Yikes.
- BINGO!

Thanks for the update.
Carolina missing the playoffs

Ouch.

So you're saying a small market Canadian team going into cap hell is going to help change the CBA?

Hmmm....

Some sort of soft cap for own drafted players resigning would be interesting. NBA does that IIRC. Something needs to give for the 'Hawks next CBA.
- blackhawk24

Owners won't want a "soft cap" that increases the players' share of HRR.

Players won't want a "soft cap" that keeps the share the same, but increases the escrow.

The next CBA (probably negotiated after 3 more seasons, I think) will again be a zero-sum-game negotiation: how much of the pot will each side get?

Thanks for the update.
Carolina missing the playoffs

Ouch.
- Yikes726

This is nothing new.