Wait, so making a bad trade allowed us to keep Laughton and suck enough to get Nolan Patrick.

Well then that was a brilliant move.

How Hexy forecast the ED and the 2017 draft lottery was brilliant.

C'mon... I'm still on the fence with Hextall but what a reach.

- mayorofangrytown

No I am not at all saying it was intentional. He did move Hartnell for a reason. He didn't just get a trade offer and think yeah that might work out. It was a big miss.

However, I don't think anyone can say Hartnell would've been the difference for the Flyers to contend for a cup. The salary cap mess Hextall had to work through was happening regardless of whether or not the Hartnell trade happened.

The same can be said for signing guys like Bellemare and Gordon and Schultz. They were placeholders until the team could compete. We pretended to be going for the playoffs, and I dont doubt Hextall wanted to make them, but the ultimate goal was not to restock the Flyers for another run at the cup in 2 years (at the time). It was to draft and develop players so they can start to be competitive now.

If Hartnell is on the team and makes the Flyers better, which even if he scores more than Umberger I am not sure it helps W/L too much, the Flyers for sure don't have Provorov, might not have Konecny (but maybe have Barzal ), and what the hell they got lucky as poop with Patrick...but still. The last 3 years was the dark before the dawn. Who cares if they might've scored a few more goals. Unintentionally sucking as much as possible (for a team that refused to tank) was the most beneficial for their long term success.

Well, he did manage to get a 3rd for Rinaldo, so I think he's some sort of sorcerer/wizard, so he may have a crystal ball.
- jmatchett383

For every amazing trade he makes a pretty questionable one. I truly wonder if he is operating on an IOU system with other gms.

No I am not at all saying it was intentional. He did move Hartnell for a reason. He didn't just get a trade offer and think yeah that might work out. It was a big miss.

However, I don't think anyone can say Hartnell would've been the difference for the Flyers to contend for a cup. The salary cap mess Hextall had to work through was happening regardless of whether or not the Hartnell trade happened.

The same can be said for signing guys like Bellemare and Gordon and Schultz. They were placeholders until the team could compete. We pretended to be going for the playoffs, and I dont doubt Hextall wanted to make them, but the ultimate goal was not to restock the Flyers for another run at the cup in 2 years (at the time). It was to draft and develop players so they can start to be competitive now.

If Hartnell is on the team and makes the Flyers better, which even if he scores more than Umberger I am not sure it helps W/L too much, the Flyers for sure don't have Provorov, might not have Konecny (but maybe have Barzal ), and what the hell they got lucky as poop with Patrick...but still
- YuenglingJagr

What about Rubstov?

25 goal, 50 point players are not easy to replace. Schenn's production is being underrated.
- MJL

Yet we manage to replace those losses year after year.

Richards? Carter? Forsberg? Hartnell?

All better players who produced at higher levels than Schenn.

What about Rubstov?
- jmatchett383

you mean laberge?

For every amazing trade he makes a pretty questionable one. I truly wonder if he is operating on an IOU system with other gms.
- Tfaehner

Aside from the Hartnell trade, which ones are questionable?

Nailed the Timonen trade, which allowed us to trade up for Konecny
Schenn/Vinny for Weal and a 3rd
Unloaded Pronger and got Gagner
Tye McGinn for a 3rd (Felix Sandstrom)

You can argue the B Schenn trade, but I think 2 1sts was a good haul. Streit to me was a wash. Wasn't a fan of the Cousins/Madsen trade, but that was an ED-driven trade.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi

Everything is AWESOME!

Aside from the Hartnell trade, which ones are questionable?

Nailed the Timonen trade, which allowed us to trade up for Konecny
Schenn/Vinny for Weal and a 3rd
Unloaded Pronger and got Gagner
Tye McGinn for a 3rd (Felix Sandstrom)

You can argue the B Schenn trade, but I think 2 1sts was a good haul. Streit to me was a wash. Wasn't a fan of the Cousins/Madsen trade, but that was an ED-driven trade.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi
- jmatchett383

he did get housed on the Ratcliffe trade, but I didn't mind at all. I think it was worth it with all the picks he had. I wanted them to trade back up into the 1st/early 2nd if someone they liked fell and they did it twice.

Wait, so making a bad trade allowed us to keep Laughton and suck enough to get Nolan Patrick.

Well then that was a brilliant move.

How Hexy forecast the ED and the 2017 draft lottery was brilliant.

C'mon... I'm still on the fence with Hextall but what a reach.

- mayorofangrytown

Indirectly yes. It's not a bad trade when you consider the less term which allowed them to buy out Umberger before his NMC and bad contract could cost them on the cap.

I'll go with the chaos theory regarding Patrick. I actually think it's good karma for them not tanking the final stretch of the season which many in here were crying for them to do.

51 including Schenn
- arichardson22

Less than two per team.

Indirectly yes. It's not a bad trade when you consider the less term which allowed them to buy out Umberger before his NMC and bad contract could cost them on the cap.

I'll go with the chaos theory regarding Patrick. I actually think it's good karma for them not tanking the final stretch of the season which many in here were crying for them to do.
- Baxter27

it was blind (frank)ing luck

You are a lousy salesperson, I don't buy any of it. Your probably right about one thing and that is move on from the Flyers because of all the bad decision making. Hex and Hak make like the movie Dumb and Dumber, lol
- joegreif17

You can go be fans of the Peg since your boy Steve will be goaltending there!

it was blind (frank)ing luck
- YuenglingJagr

I don't really know how you identify what type of luck something is, so see it how you want to see it.

You're the guy worried about replacing Schenn's production and I am not seeing the big picture? He wasn't a long term solution here.
- YuenglingJagr

Wrong again. I'm not worried about it, I'm saying it's a step back and a loss in offensive production in the near and immediate future. That's a fact.

it was blind (frank)ing luck
- YuenglingJagr

Divine intervention IMO

Wrong again. I'm not worried about it, I'm saying it's a step back and a loss in offensive production in the near and immediate future. That's a fact.
- MJL

Well I guess if you say it enough it might come true

I don't really know how you identify what type of luck something is, so see it how you want to see it.
- Baxter27

It is easily defined by a 2.4% chance...makes the casino look like a Roth IRA

It is easily defined by a 2.4% chance
- YuenglingJagr

And everything that took place to give them that 2.4% chance is what?

Who said it was only up to 1 player to offset those goals?

More quality depth and a better ES possession game will make it likelier that guys like Read, Raffl, Weise, Filppula, Ghost and Konecny will be able to improve on their paltry goal totals from last season. Claude is due for an increase too.

That could offset all 25 of Schenn's goals before we even add any rookies to the equation.

I don't see this team taking a step back in scoring. I see them staying the same, with a chance to improve on last year.
- Tomahawk

This is interesting. The Flyers last season were in the bottom 3rd of scoring and were one of lowest scoring teams in the league at 5 on 5.

So tell me if they had all of the things that you mentioned happen and still had Schenn, there isn't the potential to score even more and at a higher rate with Schenn in the lineup than without?

Only on Hockeybuzz would adding improved depth and more talent and staying the same not be considered a setback from what might be with Schenn. The goal is to move forward and not have all the improved play result in the status quo.

No matter how you spin it, losing Schenn hurts the team in the near and immediate future and takes offense out of the lineup. The hope obviously is that by adding two more 1st round picks the Flyers can add to the future with younger players to extend the window.

Well I guess if you say it enough it might come true
- YuenglingJagr

Likewise.

CLASS DISMISSED
- TobyFlenderson

Tainter Jainter?

"these guys are a (frank)ing disgrace"

And everything that took place to give them that 2.4% chance is what?
- Baxter27

pain and suffering

So what you are saying is you like losing and the direction this team is heading. I guess you have short memories of how bad this team has been run in the last few years. J. Williams, P. Sharp, trading JVR for L. Schenn, omg letting Vezina trophy winner S. Bobrovsky get away, oh Hartnell for Umberger was awesome, getting nothing in return for Cousins and Madsen, not resigning Jagr was a mistake, not getting Weal signed was on Hextall as he had his chance and screwed it up, trading Schenn for Lehtara an overpaid cull and two picks is dumb, signing MacDonald for long term at big bucks when the islanders waived him because he was useless. You wonder why I am pissed, how can you argue with the above. Really am I that far off??
- joegreif17

Likewise.
- MJL

Wish it worked for AMac