Hockeyreference.com

This year's playoffs with the Caps
Orpik -7
Shattenkirk -4
Alzner -1
Orlov -1
Niskanen even
Carlson +1
Schmidt +6

This year's regular season with StL
Shattenkirk -11
Gunnarson -5
Pietrangelo +3
Bouwmeester +6
Parayko +7
Bortuzzo +11
Edmundson +11

Last year's playoffs with StL
Shattenkirk -8
Edmunson -4
Bouwmeester -1
Parayko +1
Pietrangelo +3
Gunnarson +5

Last year's regular season with StL
Shattenkirk -14
Bouwmeester -4
Edmundson even
Gunnarson +7
Pietrangelo +10
Parayko +28



Is it really ONLY me who sees the pattern?
And idk exactly what his offensive zone start times were,
but I'm guessing he started in the offensive zone more than the defensive
And I'd be even more curious to see what the zone % were for teammates
- jdfitz77

At least he is consistent.

That he is, keep forgetting about him
- Sabresfan-365

42 of Draisaitl's 51 points were even strength in 2015/16

"The Shatt " is not coming to Buffalo, his agent is using Pegula's deep pockets to drive up the price. We are already better on D than we were last year, and don't need his 7 for 7 deal.
- bobmack13

This has become a trend.

http://www.hockey-referen...s/shattke01-advanced.html


Last year with StL,
Shattenkirk was over 57% offensive zone starts

This year,
Over 67% offensive zone starts

And still so HORRIBLE DEFENSIVELY that his +/- was significantly worse than his teammates...
even all the points he scored couldn't make up for how bad he was defensively


If someone can explain this to me...
Seriously, I'm all ears

Why would the last 2 years not be more reflective of his current level of play than 3 or 4 or 5 years ago?
- jdfitz77

Because, as with many a player, there are peaks and valleys throughout a career.

42 of Draisaitl's 51 points were even strength in 2015/16
- sbroads24

how many of those sans mcdavid?

edit: i have him at 38

This has become a trend.
- BeadyEyedDouche

A trend that must stop. Winning would help.

how many of those sans mcdavid?

edit: i have him at 38
- Sabresfan-365

http://www.hockey-referen.../players/d/draisle01.html

14g 28a at EV

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/shattke01-advanced.html


Last year with StL,
Shattenkirk was over 57% offensive zone starts

This year,
Over 67% offensive zone starts

And still so HORRIBLE DEFENSIVELY that his +/- was significantly worse than his teammates...
even all the points he scored couldn't make up for how bad he was defensively


If someone can explain this to me...
Seriously, I'm all ears
- jdfitz77

Those zone start numbers are misleading because the site is counting every start outside the defensive zone as an o-zone start. he had about 38% o-zone and 33 in the neutral zone

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/draisle01.html

14g 28a at EV
- sbroads24

must include 4 on 4 an 3 on 3, i have just 5v5 open

how many of those sans mcdavid?

edit: i have him at 38
- Sabresfan-365

He played 4 total minutes 5 on 5 with McDavid in 15/16

He played 4 total minutes 5 on 5 with McDavid in 15/16
- sbroads24

yea just saw that, spent most of his time with Hall

Those zone start numbers are misleading because the site is counting every start outside the defensive zone as an o-zone start. he had about 38% o-zone and 33 in the neutral zone
- Sabresfan-365

So 38% o-zone, & 29% d-zone then, correct?
Is that not significant?
And shouldn't that help his +/- though?

What were his teammates zone starts like?

And how is his +/- numbers so bad, with all the points he scores helping?

Idk how anyone can't see these major red flags in his defensive game...
I still haven't heard anyone explain to me how Shattenkirk isn't BAD defensively
And I'm sincerely listening for an explaination to these numbers that would make some kind of sense

So 38% o-zone, & 29% d-zone then, correct?
Is that not significant?
And shouldn't that help his +/- though?

What were his teammates zone starts like?

And how is his +/- numbers so bad, with all the points he scores helping?

Idk how anyone can't see these major red flags in his defensive game...
I still haven't heard anyone explain to me how Shattenkirk isn't BAD defensively
And I'm sincerely listening for an explaination to these numbers that would make some kind of sense
- jdfitz77

You're looking for an answer that doesn't exist. He isn't great defensively, but he doesn't need to be to help any team.

He can score, skate, and get the puck on the forwards sticks.

He'd thrive in a Housley run system

So 38% o-zone, & 29% d-zone then, correct?
Is that not significant?
And shouldn't that help his +/- though?

What were his teammates zone starts like?

And how is his +/- numbers so bad, with all the points he scores helping?

Idk how anyone can't see these major red flags in his defensive game...
I still haven't heard anyone explain to me how Shattenkirk isn't BAD defensively
And I'm sincerely listening for an explaination to these numbers that would make some kind of sense
- jdfitz77

his Goals against per 60 was decent, second fewest shot attempts against per 60 of any caps d-man. My guess is when he has the puck he takes very good care of it and generates a decent amount 5v5, meaning the puck stays out of his teams zone. I think once hes trapped it might not be as good.

He played 4 total minutes 5 on 5 with McDavid in 15/16
- sbroads24

one other thing

Draisaitl+mcdavid this year 678 mins

Reinhart+Eichel this year 159 mins.

You're looking for an answer that doesn't exist. He isn't great defensively, but he doesn't need to be to help any team.

He can score, skate, and get the puck on the forwards sticks.

He'd thrive in a Housley run system
- sbroads24

I agree with all u say offensively...

But it doesn't concern you,
that even with all the points he scores...
he's still so much worse +/- than his teammates

The # of goals he's on the ice for is staggering compared to his teammates

his Goals against per 60 was decent, second fewest shot attempts against per 60 of any caps d-man. My guess is when he has the puck he takes very good care of it and generates a decent amount 5v5, meaning the puck stays out of his teams zone. I think once hes trapped it might not be as good.
- Sabresfan-365

The Caps stats are a small sample size on a really good team

one other thing

Draisaitl+mcdavid this year 678 mins

Reinhart+Eichel this year 159 mins.
- Sabresfan-365

I have 523 minutes

I have 523 minutes
- sbroads24

im just looking at 5v5. the gap is substantial either way

The Caps stats are a small sample size on a really good team
- jdfitz77

these were full year stats so it included the numbers on the blues, although they're pretty good too.

im just looking at 5v5. the gap is substantial either way
- Sabresfan-365

This year, right?
Eichel and Reinhart played 523 together 5 on 5

To be honest I've never put much stake in plus/minus as a stat for individual players

these were full year stats so it included the numbers on the blues, although they're pretty good too.
- Sabresfan-365

Gotcha

I get that he's good offensively
Of course I'm not arguing that

But he is on the ice for so many more goals against than his teammates

Isn't that concerning?

To be honest I've never put much stake in plus/minus as a stat for individual players
- chilliard77

I think it's a horrible stat for comparing guys on different teams
But for guys on the same team, it's applicable