Ok...................
- Mr Ricochet

He has a point Mr. R! Jonathan Toews is 29, not 33 and he is being paid for those "intangible" assets like PK and net front presence as we all know he is NOT a Point-Per-Game player. Never has been, and never will be. So, if Toews needs to be sheltered like 38 year old Hossa was this year, the Hawks are in serious trouble.

Yea that's the great thing about opinions, we can debate them all day, but won't know until we know. I like Hayden a lot. If he gives us what you call for that would be more than fine. I think he's some skating improvement away from being a serious player. Again, can he get better there? But the kid will goto the dirty areas with no worry. And god knows the Hawks need some of that.

In ADB, you will not only see a guy who can finish, his passing is also electric. I'm telling you there is A LOT of Patrick Kane in him. NO, not gonna say he's THAT good, but his skill and style is eerily familiar...what does ADB have?

Tremendous vision
Puck on a string puck control
Incredible passing ability
Can snipe
Smart and savvy enough to keep himself safe

all things Kane is known for. I poor man's Kane...

Defense and size are my questions with ADB. But he knows he's gotta play the entire ice to make it in the NHL.
- kwolf68

...and really big hair. Like cartoon hair almost. Like from that show with sporticus. You know, really big plastic hair. And whiskers. He's a kid with whiskers. Another man child.

Go hair.

I disagree with that.

He should be in his prime. Someone else was saying he shouldn't be in front of the net, it's too hard on him...now off the PK. If he's this bruised and battered to not play in those situations, they need to move him immediately
- PatShart

I don't think you completely understand the punishment taken in the blue paint. I don't see Sidney Crosby standing in the blue paint. Back to back cups. A dynasty. A dynasty of concussions.

I don't think you completely understand the punishment taken in the blue paint. I don't see Sidney Crosby standing in the blue paint. Back to back cups. A dynasty. A dynasty of concussions.
- hocktock

Because Sidney Crosby scores 100+ points a season, not 57 like Toews. Also, Crosby is 5'11" while Toews is 6'2". So Johnny is a bigger body for the goalie to see around as well as Dmen to move from the crease. Yes, it is a tough job, but for $127,500 for every RS game played, I think 19 will just have to man up.

Ok...................
- Mr Ricochet

He's not entirely wrong.

Toews is NOT in his prime anymore, though. That's around 26. He's in that "plateau before the fall" stage that is seemingly indefinite.

But he SHOULD be on the PK, and probably will log heavier minutes now that Kruger is gone.

I mean, if he can't be a PK guy, and you don't want him to go to where he is gonna get beat up, what the hell are you paying him for? Because $10.5 million is a (frank) of a lot of money for a 60 point C that doesn't kill penalties.

Because Sidney Crosby scores 100+ points a season, not 57 like Toews. Also, Crosby is 5'11" while Toews is 6'2". So Johnny is a bigger body for the goalie to see around as well as Dmen to move from the crease. Yes, it is a tough job, but for $127,500 for every RS game played, I think 19 will just have to man up.
- EnzoD

Yea, it's about the money. I guess he can buy a new back and a fresh brain when he gets fuzzy. Hey let's buy Hoss some new skin. Yea, it's about the money.

Go money.

Because Sidney Crosby scores 100+ points a season, not 57 like Toews. Also, Crosby is 5'11" while Toews is 6'2". So Johnny is a bigger body for the goalie to see around as well as Dmen to move from the crease. Yes, it is a tough job, but for $127,500 for every RS game played, I think 19 will just have to man up.
- EnzoD

Has Toews ever said that doesn't want to (or doesn't like) play on PK or in front of the net? Might've, but I don't recall (and I imagine this board would erupt if he did).

I completely get your point, and agree for the most part, but I'm always going to default to "is he the best guy we have for the job?". AA is really good in both of those roles. I think Toews is as well, although I personally think he plays better on the PP when he is down low and on the right. Heck, Jurco is 6'2". Let's throw a couple hamburgers at him to beef up and tell him to sit there. He seems to score a lot of his goals in scrums anyway.

He's not entirely wrong.

Toews is NOT in his prime anymore, though. That's around 26. He's in that "plateau before the fall" stage that is seemingly indefinite.

But he SHOULD be on the PK, and probably will log heavier minutes now that Kruger is gone.

I mean, if he can't be a PK guy, and you don't want him to go to where he is gonna get beat up, what the hell are you paying him for? Because $10.5 million is a (frank) of a lot of money for a 60 point C that doesn't kill penalties.
- BINGO!

Agreed.

Has Toews ever said that doesn't want to (or doesn't like) play on PK or in front of the net? Might've, but I don't recall (and I imagine this board would erupt if he did).

I completely get your point, and agree for the most part, but I'm always going to default to "is he the best guy we have for the job?". AA is really good in both of those roles. I think Toews is as well, although I personally think he plays better on the PP when he is down low and on the right. Heck, Jurco is 6'2". Let's throw a couple hamburgers at him to beef up and tell him to sit there. He seems to score a lot of his goals in scrums anyway.
- Chunk

Agreed on all counts. If Hayden can be the net front guy on PP1 with Anisimov the net front guy on PP2, awesome. Until they get another guy with hands and size to screen the goalie on the PP, Toews is probably their best option for that role. And for the love of god I hope they finally get rid of the goal line back door play that hasnt worked since 2010.

I don't think you completely understand the punishment taken in the blue paint. I don't see Sidney Crosby standing in the blue paint. Back to back cups. A dynasty. A dynasty of concussions.
- hocktock

Sid doesn't have to go there to score.

Toews: 250 points in 309 games over last 4 seasons

Crosby: 362 points in 312 games over last 4 seasons.

I love Toews. I think he plays hockey exactly the right way. I just dunno why the comparison even exists anymore.

Yea, it's about the money. I guess he can buy a new back and a fresh brain when he gets fuzzy. Hey let's buy Hoss some new skin. Yea, it's about the money.

Go money.
- hocktock

It's absolutely about the money. This is show business and everybody has a finite amount of space they must use as efficiently as possible while balancing team performance and individual happiness. Everything is about the money.

Yea, it's about the money. I guess he can buy a new back and a fresh brain when he gets fuzzy. Hey let's buy Hoss some new skin. Yea, it's about the money.

Go money.
- hocktock

Kinda missing the point. No one is saying that taking a beating is bad for your health (long or short term). But we only have so much top end talent due to the fact that there is a strict cap and we have two players taking up a big portion of it. If Toews isn't playing in all phases (which is his claim to fame), then that's an even bigger hindrance on the team that has to be made up by some guy we sign for $1M.

Not trying to be a nudge, but you don't think Kane would be played in all situations if he was as effective?

It's absolutely about the money. This is show business and everybody has a finite amount of space they must use as efficiently as possible while balancing team performance and individual happiness. Everything is about the money.
- BINGO!

Yep.

Agreed on all counts. If Hayden can be the net front guy on PP1 with Anisimov the net front guy on PP2, awesome. Until they get another guy with hands and size to screen the goalie on the PP, Toews is probably their best option for that role. And for the love of god I hope they finally get rid of the goal line back door play that hasnt worked since 2010.
- EnzoD

No way man! We just got Sharp back. You think they are going to scrap his bread and butter now?!?!?!

No way man! We just got Sharp back. You think they are going to scrap his bread and butter now?!?!?!
- Chunk

Just had a nightmarish flashback to 2011 Game 7 OT in Vancouver....

HOW DID YOU MISS THAT SHARPIE!?!?!

Kinda missing the point. No one is saying that taking a beating is bad for your health (long or short term). But we only have so much top end talent due to the fact that there is a strict cap and we have two players taking up a big portion of it. If Toews isn't playing in all phases (which is his claim to fame), then that's an even bigger hindrance on the team that has to be made up by some guy we sign for $1M.

Not trying to be a nudge, but you don't think Kane would be played in all situations if he was as effective?
- Chunk

That's o.k. you can be a nudge. I don't care if yous think I'm right. I says what I says. I'd rather I could figure out how to put the picture of Debrincat with big hair up here.

Doh.

Saad was a pretty much consensus top 10 guy til he took a pretty serious knee injury I believe his 3rd year in junior (draft year) and there was some question if he would ever be the same. THAT'S why he dropped (mostly).
- John Jaeckel

I think there were groin issues...

TvR: Homecoming

Make it happen Stan!!!
- DarthKane

If SB can't find anyone more servicable than TVR he may as well turn in his resignation letter to McD.

No, I don't think they did, though his contract was set up for him to go on LTIR at exactly this time.

Is it likely that they planned for him to have a legit medical condition at this point? Probably not. It's a huge coincidence in all likelihood. The optics, unfortunately, are bad.
- BINGO!

Yeah, I think there is still an issue here...that so many don't understand the history behind the RULE that is now strapped to the Blackhawks, so I am gonna use the website Russian machine (if you are dying to look at Ovi's wedding, they are the standard in this area, not necessarily unbiassed reporting, but they got the Hossa situation correct:
Hossa’s condition is unfortunate.
The conduct of the Blackhawks and NHL, however, is not. They don’t deserve a good faith treatment. (And I am gonna agree iwth them that this sick leave is simple the Blackhawks trying to get the original deal that they were looking for with the original front loaded deal....but not letting it be a "retire" that is the league's contention I think.)
With a salary cap hit of $5.275 million through 2020-21, Hossa’s contract is a disaster for the Blackhawks, who are already over the cap for next season. The deal itself is a relic of the previous collective-bargaining agreement: a back-loaded contract that would satisfy the player without hurting the team in his later years(when he was supposed to retire at a low pay AND low CAP hit). But after the 2013 lockout and the new CBA it spawned, teams with that sort of contract, the league changed the agreement so that teams like the Blackhawks would be punished if the player retired early, in what’s called a cap recapture penalty.
With Hossa presumably moving to long-term injured reserve for the remainder of his contract, the Blackhawks have avoided that penalty — similar to how Arizona and Philadelphia dealt with Chris Pronger’s contract after he could no longer play due to concussion issues. Hossa’s health has saved the team from a difficult offseason.
So, in short:
1 The NHL wrote bad rules for contracts in the old CBA.
2 Chicago exploited bad rules by signing Hossa to a back-loaded contract.
3 The NHL shut down the league to rewrite the CBA and punish teams retroactively for those contracts.
4 Chicago is attempting to exploit the new rules and Hossa’s condition to sidestep the league’s punishment.
The NHL and the Chicago Blackhawks, never pillars of ethical fortitude, look even worse now. Suspicion is justified, even as we wish the best for Hossa.


Now as far as that tweet and people not seeing the difference in #2 or #3, well, I am gonna say Simmons is missing understanding of a part of the new wording, and that was even if Hossa was traded, that when he retired in the future, even with a new team, the CAP hit didn't transfer along with the re-capture.
Is anyone else remembering this?
Or am I totally wrong. It may not apply to any player who was signed and was NOT one of the giant loophole front loaded deals, so many of the deals that were conventional league signings, not crazy low number in the final years are DIFFERENT. I haven't looked at Horton, or Datsyuk, or Pronger's ---do they read that the final four years are as little as almost one-eight of most of the OTHER years? Because Hossa's deal WAS WRITTEN that way,

If SB can't find anyone more servicable than TVR he may as well turn in his resignation letter to McD.
- ArlingtonRob

He found Daley. Q didn't like him. Daley won 2 cups.

Just had a nightmarish flashback to 2011 Game 7 OT in Vancouver....

HOW DID YOU MISS THAT SHARPIE!?!?!


- EnzoD

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Slow close to pulling an incredible 3-0 comeback. Simply amazing!! Nucks were actually a terrific team. Wonder how far that team could have gone....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Slow close to pulling an incredible 3-0 comeback. Simply amazing!! Nucks were actually a terrific team. Wonder how far that team could have gone....
- kwolf68

The Shorthanded goal by Toews to tie the game in the dying minutes.....I thought they were gunna pull off the incredible that night. Franking Finger Biter Burrows with the highlight of his career snagging Campoli's flip clear and then bombing a clapper top shelf past Crow. As good of a 1st round series as I can remember.

Yeah, I think there is still an issue here...that so many don't understand the history behind the RULE that is now strapped to the Blackhawks, so I am gonna use the website Russian machine (if you are dying to look at Ovi's wedding, they are the standard in this area, not necessarily unbiassed reporting, but they got the Hossa situation correct:
Hossa’s condition is unfortunate.
The conduct of the Blackhawks and NHL, however, is not. They don’t deserve a good faith treatment. (And I am gonna agree iwth them that this sick leave is simple the Blackhawks trying to get the original deal that they were looking for with the original front loaded deal....but not letting it be a "retire" that is the league's contention I think.)
With a salary cap hit of $5.275 million through 2020-21, Hossa’s contract is a disaster for the Blackhawks, who are already over the cap for next season. The deal itself is a relic of the previous collective-bargaining agreement: a back-loaded contract that would satisfy the player without hurting the team in his later years(when he was supposed to retire at a low pay AND low CAP hit). But after the 2013 lockout and the new CBA it spawned, teams with that sort of contract, the league changed the agreement so that teams like the Blackhawks would be punished if the player retired early, in what’s called a cap recapture penalty.
With Hossa presumably moving to long-term injured reserve for the remainder of his contract, the Blackhawks have avoided that penalty — similar to how Arizona and Philadelphia dealt with Chris Pronger’s contract after he could no longer play due to concussion issues. Hossa’s health has saved the team from a difficult offseason.
So, in short:
1 The NHL wrote bad rules for contracts in the old CBA.
2 Chicago exploited bad rules by signing Hossa to a back-loaded contract.
3 The NHL shut down the league to rewrite the CBA and punish teams retroactively for those contracts.
4 Chicago is attempting to exploit the new rules and Hossa’s condition to sidestep the league’s punishment.
The NHL and the Chicago Blackhawks, never pillars of ethical fortitude, look even worse now. Suspicion is justified, even as we wish the best for Hossa.


Now as far as that tweet and people not seeing the difference in #2 or #3, well, I am gonna say Simmons is missing understanding of a part of the new wording, and that was even if Hossa was traded, that when he retired in the future, even with a new team, the CAP hit didn't transfer along with the re-capture.
Is anyone else remembering this?
- wiz1901

Besides he's getting paid a million dollars a year to not retire, such a deal.

The Shorthanded goal by Toews to tie the game in the dying minutes.....I thought they were gunna pull off the incredible that night. Franking Finger Biter Burrows with the highlight of his career snagging Campoli's flip clear and then bombing a clapper top shelf past Crow. As good of a 1st round series as I can remember.
- EnzoD

I know it. When they scored the shortie I was feeling it. That was probably the most sad ive been over a loss with this team. I was so proud of those guys. The 2014 loss pissed me off more than made me sad or upset. But Alexandra burying that game winner was all kinds of suck.

He found Daley. Q didn't like him. Daley won 2 cups.
- hocktock

Scroll up a bit my friend.
My point exactly.
Q is gonna Q.
As much as he's won all those games in his career, as much as he's won 3 CUPS here.
Stubborn bastage.
Evidently, Mike Sullivan =>Q and Mike was in the Hawks system.
Figured out a way to use a guy/roster and win back-to-backs.

No matter what, he'll always have that over Q because I think Q retires or gets axed/pushed upstairs before there's any chance of a back-to-back for him. IMO, a near-impossible feat achieved by Sullivan.