They're willing to trade picks and prospects, but they don't want to trade any D off their current roster.

Basically what they're saying is "Our depth in the next few years is great, but at this moment it's pretty thin."

That's why they acquired TVR and Kruger. they wanted cheap, effective depth pieces. I don't see them trading any of that away for futures.
- BINGO!

Fair enough, but if Carolina wants to add a legit scorer, picks and prospects won't do it. Unless the prospect is elite and your elite prospects are among your top 7. Personally, if I'm Carolina I actually do what Francis said...don't do squat with that young D over there. You got a good goalie now, tremendous young D...build from THAT. Carolina won't be a huge scoring team, but there is enough talent at forward they should score enough to win, especially if that D group comes together, I think it's got sickening good potential.

I think we know how Q at minimum sees TVR, which I suspect is really the whole point if there's something to the rumor
- John Jaeckel

TVR must listen and be coachable, Thats the type of players that coaches love to have on their teams.

Wolfy, Hartman was tied for 7th in rookie goals last year with Marner and that was at 12:46 per game TOI!! Check out the TOI of the guys he kept company with and his 19 goals are even more impressive. http://www.nhl.com/ice/ro...rt=goals&viewName=summary

I'm 100% with you on Hayden. Whether or not he helps this year who knows but not hard to project this kid out as a Ryan Reaves type but with a bit of offensive pop. Maybe a 250 hit 20+ point guy. ...... Really great guy to have on a roster and something the Hawks rarely have.
- Mr Ricochet

Rico -- Wolfy--- I am ALL IN on Hayden as a player to watch --- have noticed him in the last couple prospect camps-- he really stands out among the others-- and personally I think his upside has to be much more than a Ryan Reeves type--- perhaps more like a true power forward rather than a guy running around out of position--- Hayden has size, skill and smarts-- only missing the other s-- speed--

I'm optimistic that Hayden will be a contributor to the NHL line up this season wether he starts from game 1 or later-- he is a keeper IMO--

TVR must listen and be coachable, Thats the type of players that coaches love to have on their teams.
- bhawk1s

No doubt about that. The most frustrating player is the one who keeps shooting when I blow the whistle, farts around when I'm talking, etc...IOW, my son. LOL....though he's much better now.

Well of course. I think anyone can be traded. But to move him for temporary cap space they'll just be getting anyway is NOT a practical return. The Hawks are in a bind for 3 months, then after that they are set. Learn from the Bickell thing, hold on, take one step back and then maybe you can take two steps forward. And I know Bickell wasn't a sure thing, no one knew his situation. But it does illuminate how things can really end up hurting you if you can't "find a way" to make it work. Hawks had to move Bickell I guess, because his contract was bag and he wasn't productive. They KNOW Hossa is LTIR and subsequently they get their cap space anyway.

Trading DeBrincat + for 2 months of cap space without a HIGH quality return (even if just a prospect) is a terrible move, if it were to happen, which I am not so sure it will.
- kwolf68

It IS a practical return because it is 4 years of said cap space. Why do this dance EVERY year for 4 years and give up assets each time to make a trade when it can be one and done? Yes you may need to give up a big piece to do it but you'll never have to worry about it or spend assets to keep acquiring a player each year when you get that cap space on day two. If the Hawks were not a max cap team then yes I would 100% agree with you, but they aren't.

Rico -- Wolfy--- I am ALL IN on Hayden as a player to watch --- have noticed him in that couple prospect camps-- he really stands out among the others-- and personally I think his upside has to be much more than a Ryan Reeves type--- perhaps more like a true power forward rather than aguy running around out of position--- Hayden has size, skill and smarts-- only missing the other s-- speed--

I'm optimistic that Hayden will be a contributor to the NHL line up this season wether he starts from game 1 or later-- he is a keeper IMO--
- jb3333

yea no way he compares to Reeves. Reeves career high in points is 13. Hartman goes for 30 last year with a full 82 games, and that being his rookie year. Maybe he improves and gells more and thus scores even more.

Hayden is FAR from a knucklehead like Reeves. Hayden is actually pretty good at hockey. YES, his foot speed is still a work in progress, but I was very pleased with what I saw from him last year. If he improves his skating even moderately he's going to be superb. Even if he never becomes a great skater, he will be a very useful powerforward on any number of lines.

I also believe Hayden is a smart kid and understands the entire process. I'd be shocked if he's not in the rink right now working on his skating. The kid knows what he has to do to get there and I am betting on him.

It IS a practical return because it is 4 years of said cap space. Why do this dance EVERY year for 4 years and give up assets each time to make a trade when it can be one and done? Yes you may need to give up a big piece to do it but you'll never have to worry about it or spend assets to keep acquiring a player each year when you get that cap space on day two. If the Hawks were not a max cap team then yes I would 100% agree with you, but they aren't.
- tyweb69

Already discussed...once on LTIR he stays there it appears. Hence, would be a horrible move.

You don't give up a kid like ADB for this. You will NOT believe how quick he shoots the puck. It's logic defying. I probably missed half the shots he took in the games because I actually drew oxygen and lost focus for a nanosecond. The kid is a filthy sniper. And yea he's small, but doesn't play soft believe it or not. He's willing to get dirty and play a gritty game, even though putting biscuits into the net is his overall game.

You move him ONLY if the other team gives us something legit...not 2 months of cap space we'll just end up getting anyway.

Fair enough, but if Carolina wants to add a legit scorer, picks and prospects won't do it. Unless the prospect is elite and your elite prospects are among your top 7. Personally, if I'm Carolina I actually do what Francis said...don't do squat with that young D over there. You got a good goalie now, tremendous young D...build from THAT. Carolina won't be a huge scoring team, but there is enough talent at forward they should score enough to win, especially if that D group comes together, I think it's got sickening good potential.
- kwolf68

That's exactly what they're doing.

I think they're planning on choking out opponents entirely this year. Hell, they already had the best PK in the league last season, and now they've added Kruger and an actual goaltender.

I think the additions of Kruger and TVR are huge for them. Being able to give Jordan Staal some matchups against anyone other than the opposition's top line will be massive for him, and being able to put the 3rd pairing out there and not having to worry about them getting caved in is refreshing.

Probably not going to score a bunch, but if Aho and Lindholm continue to progress.... who knows?

Rick, let me put you on the spot. Do you think DeBrincat will be an NHL player? If so in what role?

Based on what I saw of him in that CHL Top Prospect Game and the reports from last year's Hawk camp if I had to bet a dollar today I'd say no. I think the kid has to be a top 6 guy to be of value and with his lack of +skating (not a bad skater mind you) and his size I'd say the odds of him making it are low. And I'd say the low odds are lower if he's rushed and not given 100+ AHL games to develop.

Funny you mention Grimaldi. Another I was wrong on but this kid was so much fun to watch play at the NTDP. I did think he could be another Johnny Hockey.
- Mr Ricochet

Dropping to 39th overall probably says quite a bit about what the scouts and teams were thinking. But then again, Saad dropped even farther his year.

The kid will make it if he really wants it badly enough; sort of like Andrew Shaw wanting it so bad he passed a few guys in Rockford like they were standing still.

Was I impressed with the way he played in the Memorial Cup - to quote a Q'ism - he was just OK. But guys that can put the puck in the net will always get a long look.

yea no way he compares to Reeves. Reeves career high in points is 13. Hartman goes for 30 last year with a full 82 games, and that being his rookie year. Maybe he improves and gells more and thus scores even more.

Hayden is FAR from a knucklehead like Reeves. Hayden is actually pretty good at hockey. YES, his foot speed is still a work in progress, but I was very pleased with what I saw from him last year. If he improves his skating even moderately he's going to be superb. Even if he never becomes a great skater, he will be a very useful powerforward on any number of lines.

I also believe Hayden is a smart kid and understands the entire process. I'd be shocked if he's not in the rink right now working on his skating. The kid knows what he has to do to get there and I am betting on him.
- kwolf68

Agreed. and thats exactly what I like about him-- smart and dedicated-- a leader If I recall he was captain of his Yale team-- lots of TANGIBLE assets that he brings

Dropping to 39th overall probably says quite a bit about what the scouts and teams were thinking. But then again, Saad dropped even farther his year.

The kid will make it if he really wants it badly enough; sort of like Andrew Shaw wanting it so bad he passed a few guys in Rockford like they were standing still.

Was I impressed with the way he played in the Memorial Cup - to quote a Q'ism - he was just OK. But guys that can put the puck in the net will always get a long look.
- RickJ

To me, he's a smaller but more skilled Zach Boychuk.

Lots of talent, but just not quite there and doesn't seem to get any better.

That's exactly what they're doing.

I think they're planning on choking out opponents entirely this year. Hell, they already had the best PK in the league last season, and now they've added Kruger and an actual goaltender.

I think the additions of Kruger and TVR are huge for them. Being able to give Jordan Staal some matchups against anyone other than the opposition's top line will be massive for him, and being able to put the 3rd pairing out there and not having to worry about them getting caved in is refreshing.

Probably not going to score a bunch, but if Aho and Lindholm continue to progress.... who knows?
- BINGO!

Agree and with Staal and Kruger you got two very good faceoff/D options. Kruger slumped at the circles last year, but he was coming off wrist injury.

Kruger and TVR are very nice depth adds for Carolina and they'll seamlessly fit in.

I do think a high scoring forward added to the mix takes Carolina from good to potentially great, but they are still young. Let things marinate some. Like you said maybe Lindholm becomes that guy. You will get decent points from Skinner, Rask, Aho of course, Williams and TT ... not earth shattering, but still some skill.

Let the kids grow another year and if Carolina needs another scorer they go get one then. Maybe by then some other prospects will have stepped up and Carolina can move them for a sniper.

I think Carolina is VERY close. VERY. I'd be shocked if they missed the playoffs this year. Could potentially be one of the most exciting young teams next year.

Agreed. and thats exactly what I like about him-- smart and dedicated-- a leader If I recall he was captain of his Yale team-- lots of TANGIBLE assets that he brings
- jb3333

Yep, I LOVED his interview when he decided to go back to Yale for his senior year. The kid just has "it" figured out. Yes he did wear the "C" at Yale.

Good character, leader, can hit like a truck, big, powerful, nice hands, no fear in front of the crease. My god...just his willingness to get to the net, his size, his toughness RIGHT NOW is an attribute to the Hawks. Once he gains confidence he's going to be a legit NHL player. I see his ceiling as Top 6 powerfoward. His floor is line 3. I do not see him as a fourth liner. Though this year he may be asked to cut his teeth there, which is fine, but he'll be moving up at some point.

Agree and with Staal and Kruger you got two very good faceoff/D options. Kruger slumped at the circles last year, but he was coming off wrist injury.

Kruger and TVR are very nice depth adds for Carolina and they'll seamlessly fit in.

I do think a high scoring forward added to the mix takes Carolina from good to potentially great, but they are still young. Let things marinate some. Like you said maybe Lindholm becomes that guy. You will get decent points from Skinner, Rask, Aho of course, Williams and TT ... not earth shattering, but still some skill.

Let the kids grow another year and if Carolina needs another scorer they go get one then. Maybe by then some other prospects will have stepped up and Carolina can move them for a sniper.

I think Carolina is VERY close. VERY. I'd be shocked if they missed the playoffs this year. Could potentially be one of the most exciting young teams next year.
- kwolf68

Wildcard to me is Julien Gauthier. Have never had a prospect like him. Don't know what to expect. a 6'4, 225 pound power forward with hands... you see scouts compare him to everyone from Rick Nash to Justin Abdelkader. Francis said he was the biggest positive surprise at development camp, so maybe closer than anyone thinks.

What he, Martin Necas and Nicolas Roy can be (and how fast they get there) will determine a lot of the future.

As far as the lines I'd like to see start the season...

Saad - Toews - Panik (Should be one of the better lines in the league next season)
Jurco - AA - Kane (Yes, Jurco. If given a chance, and he's motivated, I like it)
Sharp - Schmaltz - Hartman (Great scoring third line)
Hayden - Kero - Wingels (Big, young, tough to play against)

Keith - Murphy
Kempny - Seabrook
Forsling - Rutta

Crawford
Forsberg
- TommyHawk

Agreed on the Jurco thing, and maybe we're the only ones....

I'm a guy who has a lot of questions about DeBrincat but I can't ignore he put up 104 points in the OHL as a 16yr old. Now many will point out that he played on a line with McDavid and Dylan Strome when doing so, and they were only 17 at the time, but that's good, real good.

The kid has plenty as a prospect to get excited about but I feel he dropped 9 picks into the 2nd round as a result of his CHL Top Prospects game.
- Mr Ricochet

Sounds like he may be a kid whose nerves get the best of him in tense situations, particularly when he is "on display" - CHL Top Prospect and last year's Hawks Camp as two examples. Doesn't surprise me given the fact that he has likely always been underestimated because of his size and that chip on his shoulder could increase the nerves. May be someone who needs a few games on the same team to settle down and forget the bright lights in order to just play his game.

Hopefully, if he isn't lights out at the camp this year, he at least makes the Hogs roster, so we can see if he can get into a groove there. Yeah, you need to grab an opportunity when it comes, but there are those who don't always show best in a single opportunity situation. Could consider it a character issue IF he also fell apart during the OHL playoffs in big games, but I don't think that was the case?

Already discussed...once on LTIR he stays there it appears. Hence, would be a horrible move.

You don't give up a kid like ADB for this. You will NOT believe how quick he shoots the puck. It's logic defying. I probably missed half the shots he took in the games because I actually drew oxygen and lost focus for a nanosecond. The kid is a filthy sniper. And yea he's small, but doesn't play soft believe it or not. He's willing to get dirty and play a gritty game, even though putting biscuits into the net is his overall game.

You move him ONLY if the other team gives us something legit...not 2 months of cap space we'll just end up getting anyway.
- kwolf68

Ok agreed if he's on the LTIR at the start of the season and can remain there then yeah wait until the season starts.

Agreed on the Jurco thing, and maybe we're the only ones....
- Kewl1

Hey, it worked for Panik...

I'd be more concerned about Murphy. Keith is still Keith and his mobility should help cover for him, but I don't think you want him playing that many minutes.

Already discussed...once on LTIR he stays there it appears. Hence, would be a horrible move.

You don't give up a kid like ADB for this. You will NOT believe how quick he shoots the puck. It's logic defying. I probably missed half the shots he took in the games because I actually drew oxygen and lost focus for a nanosecond. The kid is a filthy sniper. And yea he's small, but doesn't play soft believe it or not. He's willing to get dirty and play a gritty game, even though putting biscuits into the net is his overall game.

You move him ONLY if the other team gives us something legit...not 2 months of cap space we'll just end up getting anyway.
- kwolf68

Well, that's not something I reported in any way. All I said was "high" prospect as part of a discussed package.

Well he could get up and down the ice with McDavid who is probably the fastest and maybe best skater in the league so his foot speed can't be that bad.

And he didn't lose a step playing with Strome who isn't the same type of player as McDavid so you'd think he's adaptable.

At a minimum he should be able to find a soft spot and rip one timers in from the back side. Put him with Toews and Kane so they start with the puck and he will get a bunch of alone time to reap those rewards.
- fattybeef

Hey Fatty, it sounds a bit like you're describing Panarin.

Dropping to 39th overall probably says quite a bit about what the scouts and teams were thinking. But then again, Saad dropped even farther his year.

The kid will make it if he really wants it badly enough; sort of like Andrew Shaw wanting it so bad he passed a few guys in Rockford like they were standing still.

Was I impressed with the way he played in the Memorial Cup - to quote a Q'ism - he was just OK. But guys that can put the puck in the net will always get a long look.
- RickJ

Saad was a pretty much consensus top 10 guy til he took a pretty serious knee injury I believe his 3rd year in junior (draft year) and there was some question if he would ever be the same. THAT'S why he dropped (mostly).

Hey Fatty, it sounds a bit like you're describing Panarin.
- 6628

Yeah, except when Panarin showed up he was 4 years older, had multiple pro seasons under his belt, 4-5 inches taller, heavier and faster.

Already discussed...once on LTIR he stays there it appears. Hence, would be a horrible move.

You don't give up a kid like ADB for this. You will NOT believe how quick he shoots the puck. It's logic defying. I probably missed half the shots he took in the games because I actually drew oxygen and lost focus for a nanosecond. The kid is a filthy sniper. And yea he's small, but doesn't play soft believe it or not. He's willing to get dirty and play a gritty game, even though putting biscuits into the net is his overall game.

You move him ONLY if the other team gives us something legit...not 2 months of cap space we'll just end up getting anyway.
- kwolf68

The same (or similar) was said of another right-hand shooting left wing who put up 83 points in 56 games as an 18 year old in the OHL.

His name . . .

Jeremy . . . Morin.

Not suggesting they move ADB. Am suggesting some patience and perspective.

And I have another example if anyone needs it . . .

It IS a practical return because it is 4 years of said cap space. Why do this dance EVERY year for 4 years and give up assets each time to make a trade when it can be one and done? Yes you may need to give up a big piece to do it but you'll never have to worry about it or spend assets to keep acquiring a player each year when you get that cap space on day two. If the Hawks were not a max cap team then yes I would 100% agree with you, but they aren't.
- tyweb69

There is also the possibility, I guess, that the league makes the Hawks really suffer and endure the cap hit for a year to "determine Hossa's health at that future date."

Possible, but unlikely.

Trading DeBrincat is almost really a separate discussion though. Although I raised it rhetorically earlier connected to the Hossa thing, you'd obviously have to get more back than just cap space—unless you did not get the LTIR status, then it's $5.25 million a year and he may not be worth that, sorry, that would be a legit question.

Hey, it worked for Panik...

I'd be more concerned about Murphy. Keith is still Keith and his mobility should help cover for him, but I don't think you want him playing that many minutes.
- BINGO!

I'm not too worried about Murphy. While his underlying stats weren't the best he was the best on a terrible team (aside from points). I think Murphy will be the biggest pleasant surprise this season.