Or Patrick Sharp.

Big differences is that Sharp was a heck of a straight line skater and other than Kane, Panarin was probably the best skater on the team in terms of being able to get on his edges and move laterally.


- fattybeef

I think you have to add Schmaltz to that group as well, players that use their edges. Panik ain't bad either.

Totally agree...... this kid must be given a shot. This team can not continue to allow visiting teams to waltz into the UC and play dance partners with another no-hit Quenneville team. It's embarassing to watch them get pushed around on home ice repeatedly and guys like Hayden are needed to change that mindset.
He will take the body and probably get his share of points as well. I guarantee that Hayden's hits will charge up the the crowd and perhaps ignite a few of the others to follow suit.
- Hawkytalk

I agree it's tough to watch them get pushed around and sometimes rag dolled. But they did win two cups that way.

I asked 6-7 yrs ago, before total cap hell, if a team could win long term on pure skill the way the Hawks were constructed. That they would lose skill to the cap and sooner or later not be able overwhelm with skill/talent.

That is the LA Kings model better for the long term? That a system that relied on solid, positionally sound, stout players with a couple skill guys is cheaper to maintain than pure skill.

Well here we are, a bit later than I thought. They can no longer overwhelm with skill but the system can still be a speed one. A Hayden if he reaches a game that can help is the kind of guy that can fit in that system, 5 yrs into cap hell.

In 3 years it may not matter anyway. I say worry about this year now. Maybe Hossa comes back. Maybe the cap goes up. Maybe higher salaried players are traded. The Hawks have always been a "this season" team of late. Will this change?

This is also a lesson to not overspend on your roster. The flexibility so many want now is now impossible because the Hawks are unable to show restraint in signing their players.
- kwolf68

Not happening.

Hawks are at a crossroads. Not in full rebuild mode (yet). Not in all-in for the Cup mode either.

IMO, Bowman is trying to kick the can out a couple of years in terms of what was going to be a Cap-A-Geddon in the summer of 2019, AND hoping for a rebirth of the team with a much faster roster and playing style AND more bangers (like Wingels and Bouma).

I, for one am not looking at it in terms of the simple math, i.e., 'Hjalmarsson>>Murphy, "Saad=Panarin."

I think it's a lot more complex than that.

I think Bowman has tried to really change the complexion of the team and the playing style. Especially adding north-south speed. Time will tell if it works.

I agree it's tough to watch them get pushed around and sometimes rag dolled. But they did win two cups that way.

I asked 6-7 yrs ago, before total cap hell, if a team could win long term on pure skill the way the Hawks were constructed. That they would lose skill to the cap and sooner or later not be able overwhelm with skill/talent.

That is the LA Kings model better for the long term? That a system that relied on solid, positionally sound, stout players with a couple skill guys is cheaper to maintain than pure skill.

Well here we are, a bit later than I thought. They can no longer overwhelm with skill but the system can still be a speed one. A Hayden if he reaches a game that can help is the kind of guy that can fit in that system, 5 yrs into cap hell.
- Mr Ricochet

They have gotten significantly faster this offseason, both on skates and potentially in their ability to transition the puck up the ice.

Not happening.

Hawks are at a crossroads. Not in full rebuild mode (yet). Not in all-in for the Cup mode either.

IMO, Bowman is trying to kick the can out a couple of years in terms of what was going to be a Cap-A-Geddon in the summer of 2019, AND hoping for a rebirth of the team with a much faster roster and playing style AND more bangers (like Wingels and Bouma).

I, for one am not looking at it in terms of the simple math, i.e., 'Hjalmarsson>>Murphy, "Saad=Panarin."

I think it's a lot more complex than that.

I think Bowman has tried to really change the complexion of the team and the playing style. Especially adding north-south speed. Time will tell if it works.
- John Jaeckel

Do you believe Hossa is done because it's "time" or is this skin condition seriously long term?

I agree adding Wingels, Daulphin and Saad helps with the end to end game. Still, you need to have skill. Just adding fast players that can't play (see, Skille, Jack) does the Hawks no good. I like Daulphin and Saad. I am cautiously optimistic about Murphy. And I think Kempny will step up this year, he has EVERYTHING you need from an NHL blueliner. The Bouma, Osterle and Raddysh signings are depth moves to me, although I think Raddysh could end up in Chicago one day....he's a very bright hockey player.

One thing that goes overshadowed with Ryan Hartman is not only his defensive play, but his shot. Has a good, hard wrist shot. Still think he is Marchand-lite.
- 93Joe

There can be no doubt DeBrincat has an elite release. The DiPietro kid was on fire in the Memorial Cup in net and DeBrincat caught him flat footed a couple times. Rang one or two off the pipes.

He's gonna need IQ to find seams at the NHL level and need that quick release just to get shots off. ......For the sake of argument lets say he starts at Rockford. I would go out of my way to get a look at the kid live.

Doesn't seem likely from Carolina's standpoint. If they trade TVR back to the Hawks, they're going to need another depth Defenseman again.

Francis has previously stated he doesn't want to trade any of his top 7 defensemen.

That, and we've already got too many depth NHL forwards. I just don't see a real benefit to this for CAR
- BINGO!

One thing I'm sure of with the Canes. If they are gonna make any mistakes they will err on the side of defense both roster wise and in style of play. .....The scoring hasn't been enough but now they have a goalie who will not only not lose games but steal some. CAR has been statistically better defensively than the Hawks have been the last 2 yrs at least and Darling has been fantastic with the Hawks.

I think Bowman has tried to really change the complexion of the team and the playing style. Especially adding north-south speed. Time will tell if it works.
- John Jaeckel

In his defense, Blowman is fighting an uphill battle.

Why?

Q -- because of his player "blankies" (love that term, really fits).

The thought of TVR returning makes me want to throw up in my mouth. No speed whatsoever and regardless of this, Q would pair him with Keith anyway so he would face a much higher QOC than capable of defending. I hope the last time we saw TVR turnstiled in a Blackhawk sweater is the LAST time.

Q is going to plug any/every "blankie" into spots where maybe he should be giving long unblendered looks at in various spots. Is Q going to continue to press-box Kempny, for example, and in his place insert the 3-wheel cart?

What about Sharp, coming off hip surgery -- is Q going to give him the Daley treatment and after a few practices, deem him not worthy? Highly doubt it.

Old habits die hard for Q.
And as much as I don't like a lot of what Stan has wrought, much has been brought on by what Q has or has not done with the talent he's been given.

Well he could get up and down the ice with McDavid who is probably the fastest and maybe best skater in the league so his foot speed can't be that bad.

And he didn't lose a step playing with Strome who isn't the same type of player as McDavid so you'd think he's adaptable.

At a minimum he should be able to find a soft spot and rip one timers in from the back side. Put him with Toews and Kane so they start with the puck and he will get a bunch of alone time to reap those rewards.
- fattybeef

Thought about that too, Beef. But also thought Lucic or Maroon flanked McDavid this year............ Conceding this was jrs but a 16 yr old DeBrincat skating with McDavid and to put up 104 points tells me the kid showed some natural IQ cuz he's not in McDavid's league as far as skating, few are though.

There can be no doubt DeBrincat has an elite release. The DiPietro kid was on fire in the Memorial Cup in net and DeBrincat caught him flat footed a couple times. Rang one or two off the pipes.

He's gonna need IQ to find seams at the NHL level and need that quick release just to get shots off. ......For the sake of argument lets say he starts at Rockford. I would go out of my way to get a look at the kid live.
- Mr Ricochet

ADB's IQ is off the charts, that won't be an issue. There is literally NO WAY this kid doesn't score. He's not a one trick pony just loading up on snipes from the high slot. Oh no...he gets in in transition, in the slot, he bangs in rebounds, he drives the net. You don't score the way he does without having a bunch of ways to do it.

Re: DeBrincat. I assume the scouts who tagged him are still there and the man (Bowman) who drafted him is there. I saw nothing from last year to indicate he will bust. Could he? Sure, he "could be" the next Morin, whatever. They have now seen him play without McDavid (who vouches for him) and they saw him play four games minus Strome (7 goals). His hands, shot, vision, and instincts are WORLD class level. The dude is also a competitor, fearless, does NOT play soft at all. To be that small and still do what he's doing indicates some special ability in this player. Certainly not ability you toss off in a scrap heap salary for 2 months trade, that's for sure.

I've seen the kid play in Erie...the only time he looks small is when there is a stoppage of play.

If he was 6'0 he'd have been a Top 5 pick. Hawks got lucky to get his talent when they did. Keep him, see if we can cash in with him.
- kwolf68

We'll see. I have to be honest. I've seen some tape of him in junior, and little bit of him in a couple of NHL exhibitions last year. Not enough to have a hard and fast opinion, and I generally err on the "show me" side with ALL prospects.

To be fair.

That said, too many people minimize the severity of the jump from junior or NCAA hockey to the pros. And that some "mad skill" exhibited at that level can disappear at a higher level of competition. Morin and Brandon Bochenski were two guys with great shots who piled up big numbers at the lower levels but lacked the speed/strength and ability to get open consistently in the much tighter checking and greater athleticism of the NHL. There is, and always has been a similar difference between he OHL, where the ice is generally wide open and guys skate around like they're ten feet tall, and pro. Fact.

We will see.

I have less doubt about ADB long-term than I do his being an "answer" in an NHL top 6 role this year—where the odds are simply pretty strongly against it. Guarantee you, the first time he lets his man blow by him for a goal coming the other way, Q staples his butt to the bench, and then he's back in Rockford for a while, if not the rest of the year. I don't care HOW fast his release is, he will have to—at minimum—defend every shift and defend better, faster, bigger guys in the NHL than he's ever faced before or he will be in the AHL.

Patrick Kane could get away with that as a #1 overall pick on a poopty Hawk club in 2007.

This is a whole different player and a whole different deal.

yep. And while I admit it's easier to trade now, once Hossa is on LTIR that cap problem goes away. And if by some chance he comes back he's a Blackhawk, exactly where he should be. If Hossa took a year off and got his skin thing straight I'd love to have him back, rested rejuvenated. The Hoss could play another 3 or 4 years in my view.

Now, he may be "done" from the standpoint the money is no longer worth it, he's got all the money he needs now and is looking for his long term health. But I would shed a tear to see 81 skate for US US US again.
- kwolf68

Yep but max the cap hit first.

https://www.capfriendly.c...m/armchair-gm/team/414419

We'll see. I have to be honest. I've seen some tape of him in junior, and little bit of him in a couple of NHL exhibitions last year. Not enough to have a hard and fast opinion, and I generally err on the "show me" side with ALL prospects.

To be fair.

That said, too many people minimize the severity of the jump from junior or NCAA hockey to the pros. And that some "mad skill" exhibited at that level can disappear at a higher level of competition. Morin and Brandon Bochenski were two guys with great shots who piled up big numbers at the lower levels but lacked the speed/strength and ability to get open consistently in the much tighter checking and greater athleticism of the NHL. There is, and always has been a similar difference between he OHL, where the ice is generally wide open and guys skate around like they're ten feet tall, and pro. Fact.

We will see.

I have less doubt about ADB long-term than I do his being an "answer" in an NHL top 6 role this year—where the odds are simply pretty strongly against it. Guarantee you, the first time he lets his man blow by him for a goal coming the other way, Q staples his butt to the bench, and then he's back in Rockford for a while, if not the rest of the year. I don't care HOW fast his release is, he will have to—at minimum—defend every shift and defend better, faster, bigger guys in the NHL than he's ever faced before or he will be in the AHL. Patrick Kane could get away with that as a $1 overall pick on a poopty Hawk club in 2007.

This is a whole different player and a whole different deal.
- John Jaeckel

Fair points. And mind you I am NOT penciling him into any of my projected lineups. Unless he blows the doors off in camp/pre season he needs to goto Rockford and see if he can do it there. Then we talk.

I am also in general agreement, a prospect is a prospect until he's a prospect no more. ie, he's legit or a bust. And there are more busts that winners. You could say that about the 5th overall pick in the draft. DeBrincat is a unique talent that fell to the Hawks despite the Hawks picking at the bottom of the draft on a yearly basis. They NEED to find late bloomers (Sikura? Carlsson?), they need to find those gems in the 2nd round (Saad?) they need to get players from Europe (Panarin, Kempny), they need to make shrewd trades (Forsling?)...They aren't picking the top 5 so if you stumble onto a Saad and DeBrincat is what we hope he can be, then your talent base is replenished without having to suck ass for years (see Oilers, Edmonton). To me, ADB represents that potential and the Hawks should damn well hang onto him. IMHO of course.

Like I said I've seen him and YES I know Erie isn't the same thing as the bigs, but he's virtually unstoppable. He's done at Erie. He'll be in Chicago or Rockford next year.

The Raddysh kid who played in Erie I also like. Not earth shattering overall skill, but everytime he was on the ice no one could get around him. He just seemed so well schooled positionally it didn't matter how fast the other guy was. And yea, I think DR is an "over ager"...but he has some useful talent. He's also a great passer.

yea no way he compares to Reeves. Reeves career high in points is 13. Hartman goes for 30 last year with a full 82 games, and that being his rookie year. Maybe he improves and gells more and thus scores even more.

Hayden is FAR from a knucklehead like Reeves. Hayden is actually pretty good at hockey. YES, his foot speed is still a work in progress, but I was very pleased with what I saw from him last year. If he improves his skating even moderately he's going to be superb. Even if he never becomes a great skater, he will be a very useful powerforward on any number of lines.

I also believe Hayden is a smart kid and understands the entire process. I'd be shocked if he's not in the rink right now working on his skating. The kid knows what he has to do to get there and I am betting on him.
- kwolf68

The guy who revamped the Pens roster leading to two straight cups just gave up a 1st for Reaves. If Hayden becomes a Reaves that will be a good thing. If he reaches, as I posted earlier, a Reaves like 250 hits AND puts up 20+ points that's very good. And you know there is no idiocy in his game like Reaves either.

I don't see Hayden as 40ish point ceiling guy like a couple of you mentioned in the Nick Ritchie or Tkachuk or even a Maroon mold.

The guy who revamped the Pens roster leading to two straight cups just gave up a 1st for Reaves. If Hayden becomes a Reaves that will be a good thing. If he reaches, as I posted earlier, a Reaves like 250 hits AND puts up 20+ points that's very good. And you know there is no idiocy in his game like Reaves either.

I don't see Hayden as 40ish point ceiling guy like a couple of you mentioned in the Nick Ritchie or Tkachuk or even a Maroon mold.
- Mr Ricochet

Rico. You don't think Hayden will ever score 40? Totally disagree on that.

Also, Reaves has never sniffed 20 points, EVER. He usually scores 5 or 6 points a year. He "broke out" last year with 13 points.

Hayden is a better hockey player than Reeves by far. Better shot, better hands, knows how to play a solid game of hockey, not just running around crashing into people. If Hayden had played 82 games last year he finishes the season with 30 points and 300 hits....that was in his first year of pro hockey straight out of college. You have to think there is more upside there.

As far as Reaves going to Pitt, I honestly think that's a "message" move. Pens stars probably get run as much as anyone's and I think the Penguins brought this guy in to address it. They sure didn't bring him in to score points. Penguins Cup chances are directly tied to #87, the finest hockey player on planet earth. Teams/players who trifle with that with dirty hits to the head will and should have to deal with Ryan Reaves.

I am not like Vandermeer23, but a small part of me believes there should be someone out there that will callout thuggish head hunting.

Dropping to 39th overall probably says quite a bit about what the scouts and teams were thinking. But then again, Saad dropped even farther his year.

The kid will make it if he really wants it badly enough; sort of like Andrew Shaw wanting it so bad he passed a few guys in Rockford like they were standing still.

Was I impressed with the way he played in the Memorial Cup - to quote a Q'ism - he was just OK. But guys that can put the puck in the net will always get a long look.
- RickJ

Agree with everything you say. Scouts miss we know that but DeBrincat falling had nothing to do with an off year, 51 goals and 101 points in his draft year, or injury. And as you mention these kinds get long looks as they should. A kid who pots 51, 51 and 65 goals in the top jr league on earth will get lots looks even if he was only 5ft tall, and should.

And something stands out to me. Many players drafted out of the CHL and are forced to go back see their hunger and numbers suffer. Not DeBrincat, he put up his best numbers 127 points and 65 goals. That's a very nice sign IMO.

Sounds like he may be a kid whose nerves get the best of him in tense situations, particularly when he is "on display" - CHL Top Prospect and last year's Hawks Camp as two examples. Doesn't surprise me given the fact that he has likely always been underestimated because of his size and that chip on his shoulder could increase the nerves. May be someone who needs a few games on the same team to settle down and forget the bright lights in order to just play his game.

Hopefully, if he isn't lights out at the camp this year, he at least makes the Hogs roster, so we can see if he can get into a groove there. Yeah, you need to grab an opportunity when it comes, but there are those who don't always show best in a single opportunity situation. Could consider it a character issue IF he also fell apart during the OHL playoffs in big games, but I don't think that was the case?
- pdx2ord

What I saw was a kid who was lost positionally. I watched on You Tube after the Hawks drafted him. If you have time take a look ....... Not a deal breaker only that he has a ways to go in 2 of the 3 zones is all.

And yes could have been anything in that CHL Prospect Game. He may have been injured but who knows. I do believe he slipped out of the 1st round cuz of that game though.

And something stands out to me. Many players drafted out of the CHL and are forced to go back see their hunger and numbers suffer. Not DeBrincat, he put up his best numbers 127 points and 65 goals. That's a very nice sign IMO.
- Mr Ricochet

Very important. The kid went back to Erie and continued to work. Didn't have a sour attitude or has an entitled belief. He also responded well when he got cut from Team uSA.

Sure, but if you can't admit that it doesn't at least LOOK suspicious on the surface, then you've got the goggles on too tight.
- BINGO!

If you think about it, they all look suspicious. All the players on it (LTIR) have huge cap #s. Expand your thinking, all of you.

Not happening.

Hawks are at a crossroads. Not in full rebuild mode (yet). Not in all-in for the Cup mode either.

IMO, Bowman is trying to kick the can out a couple of years in terms of what was going to be a Cap-A-Geddon in the summer of 2019, AND hoping for a rebirth of the team with a much faster roster and playing style AND more bangers (like Wingels and Bouma).

I, for one am not looking at it in terms of the simple math, i.e., 'Hjalmarsson>>Murphy, "Saad=Panarin."

I think it's a lot more complex than that.

I think Bowman has tried to really change the complexion of the team and the playing style. Especially adding north-south speed. Time will tell if it works.
- John Jaeckel

I agree.

Maybe the team would also benefit from a change behind the bench to go along with that new philosophy - approach on style of play?

Rico. You don't think Hayden will ever score 40? Totally disagree on that.

Also, Reaves has never sniffed 20 points, EVER. He usually scores 5 or 6 points a year. He "broke out" last year with 13 points.

Hayden is a better hockey player than Reeves by far. Better shot, better hands, knows how to play a solid game of hockey, not just running around crashing into people. If Hayden had played 82 games last year he finishes the season with 30 points and 300 hits....that was in his first year of pro hockey straight out of college. You have to think there is more upside there.

As far as Reaves going to Pitt, I honestly think that's a "message" move. Pens stars probably get run as much as anyone's and I think the Penguins brought this guy in to address it. They sure didn't bring him in to score points. Penguins Cup chances are directly tied to #87, the finest hockey player on planet earth. Teams/players who trifle with that with dirty hits to the head will and should have to deal with Ryan Reaves.

I am not like Vandermeer23, but a small part of me believes there should be someone out there that will callout thuggish head hunting.
- kwolf68

You think Hayden is in Bickells league as far as skating or wicked heavy shot? His high point total is 37!! Bickell is a physical freak.

IMO, and the sample size on Hayden is minute, is Reaves is a better skater, Hayden has better hands, both are huge men. Assuming Hayden has an NHL career if he is a 250 hit, 20+ point guy, 3 zone player he's valuable. Anything over that is gravy to me......

But sure he could hit 40 points just like I thought Bickell (way before he got sick) would. If he did with all else he brings you have a 5 mil a yr player by today's numbers.

2nd City Hockey projecting the Hogs lineup. ADB front and center


- pdx2ord

Isn't Iacopelli supposed to be some kind of monster?

And by monster i mean big dude that can skate kind of good. Not necessarily awesome at hockey.

I agree it's tough to watch them get pushed around and sometimes rag dolled. But they did win two cups that way.

I asked 6-7 yrs ago, before total cap hell, if a team could win long term on pure skill the way the Hawks were constructed. That they would lose skill to the cap and sooner or later not be able overwhelm with skill/talent.

That is the LA Kings model better for the long term? That a system that relied on solid, positionally sound, stout players with a couple skill guys is cheaper to maintain than pure skill.

Well here we are, a bit later than I thought. They can no longer overwhelm with skill but the system can still be a speed one. A Hayden if he reaches a game that can help is the kind of guy that can fit in that system, 5 yrs into cap hell.
- Mr Ricochet

Great points....they can still use the speed of the youth movement but the skills of the CORE are on the decline. That's to be expected and understood. Now the question is will Quenneville and the staff change the no-touch philosophy of these past 2 years and incorporate the toughness and rabid forecheck that will make them a difficult team to play against ? We won't have the size of those LA Kings teams, but Hayden and Wingles and others will hit if they're allowed to. And......it sure would be nice to somehow add 1 more power forward to the top 6.

You think Hayden is in Bickells league as far as skating or wicked heavy shot? His high point total is 37!! Bickell is a physical freak.

IMO, and the sample size on Hayden is minute, is Reaves is a better skater, Hayden has better hands, both are huge men. Assuming Hayden has an NHL career if he is a 250 hit, 20+ point guy, 3 zone player he's valuable. Anything over that is gravy to me......

But sure he could hit 40 points just like I thought Bickell (way before he got sick) would. If he did with all else he brings you have a 5 mil a yr player by today's numbers.
- Mr Ricochet

Bickell, my best wishes to him, was always inconsistent. I think Hayden will score more in close. If he taps out at 30-40 points then he's a bottom 6 forward. I think he has more upside than that, but I could be wrong too.

ADB's IQ is off the charts, that won't be an issue. There is literally NO WAY this kid doesn't score. He's not a one trick pony just loading up on snipes from the high slot. Oh no...he gets in in transition, in the slot, he bangs in rebounds, he drives the net. You don't score the way he does without having a bunch of ways to do it.
- kwolf68

yup, but small and slow's kind of a red flag .