Not true.
We have over ten million in cap space once the season starts and Lupol/Horton go on LTIR. Brown might have to miss the first game but otherwise, not an issue.
Leafs do not need to make any moves at all aside from maybe trading some bubble players (Leivo/MArchenko/Marincin) before (if the would even) they get lost on waivers.
- B-Wforever

You can't be serious with this. Brown isn't going to camp without a contract, and the Leafs would never allow that to happen. It would be a disaster. Plus, they can only exceed the Cap in the off-season by 10% which they have mostly used up already. Lupul and Horton count against the Cap in the summer. They literally don't have room for Brown's contract until they move out salary.

It's in the article:

"Carl Hagelin fits the bill, "
- Cooshie

Hardly spare parts if you look beyond just points as your criteria for a good hockey player who can change the dynamic of a game. But yes, the Pens would have to add.

It's in the article:

"Carl Hagelin fits the bill, "
- Cooshie

..I'd rather have Hagelin than Bozak.

Honest question, what do Leaf fans expect to get?

Bozak (and JVR) are good, but not great, players on expiring contracts. Teams that would want them are contenders, but who is going to give up say a top 4 defenseman for one of them. Particularly a righty, not many teams have a spare one sitting around. If they did, you'd here about him in a deal for Duchene.
- Tojo.

Don't dispute anything you wrote above.
But you know it is in these parts...fans put up these crazy trade scenarios that if offered to their own team in reverse would go bananas.
JVR is worth more than Bozak but not worth a top 4 on his own - would need to bundle it with more pieces. Bozak is worth a late first / early second round pick IMO to a team that wants him. If Leafs can't get that kind of return, they are better off just keeping both since they are pretty heavily invested in the upcoming sseason.

You can't be serious with this. Brown isn't going to camp without a contract, and the Leafs would never allow that to happen. It would be a disaster. Plus, they can only exceed the Cap in the off-season by 10% which they have mostly used up already. Lupul and Horton count against the Cap in the summer. They literally don't have room for Brown's contract until they move out salary.
- djamon

That's what I'm thinking, which is why I think picks/prospects isn't as crazy as it sounds for a player who is gone at the end of the year anyway. Toronto made the playoffs for the first time in a few years and got bounced in the first round. Are they legit Cup contenders this year? Probably not. If you accept that premise, then Bozak isn't as valuable to keep as some think it is. I think an extra $4.2 mil to work with this year and reinforcements for the near future for a young team is an enticing option.

Hardly spare parts if you look beyond just points as your criteria for a good hockey player who can change the dynamic of a game. But yes, the Pens would have to add.
- T-Train

Hagelin to any other fan base is spare parts.....argue it all you want but it's still true. Bozak for Hagelin would be a fleecing by the Pens.
That doesn't mean Hagelin is of no use - but Bozak is WAY more useful to the Leafs (or any other NHL team) than Hagelin. Come on, not even Pen fans can deny this!

..I'd rather have Hagelin than Bozak.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Shocking!! LOL

Honest question, what do Leaf fans expect to get?

Bozak (and JVR) are good, but not great, players on expiring contracts. Teams that would want them are contenders, but who is going to give up say a top 4 defenseman for one of them. Particularly a righty, not many teams have a spare one sitting around. If they did, you'd here about him in a deal for Duchene.
- Tojo.

In my mind Bozak has more value than JVR simply because he plays a premium position and plays it very well. I recognize that may not be the prevailing opinion because JVR scores at an elite level. Neither on their own are worth a top 4 RHD, but I don't believe it's because they're on expiring contracts. Top 4 RHD are just extremely valuable right now...disproportionally so, IMO.

A player on the last year of his contract just doesn't suddenly lose his value. There's an advantage in having a player for a year play in your system and allow the team to decide if he's worth committing to, as opposed to a player with several years. The financial commitment is less, and Organizations think of this.

Don't dispute anything you wrote above.
But you know it is in these parts...fans put up these crazy trade scenarios that if offered to their own team in reverse would go bananas.
JVR is worth more than Bozak but not worth a top 4 on his own - would need to bundle it with more pieces. Bozak is worth a late first / early second round pick IMO to a team that wants him. If Leafs can't get that kind of return, they are better off just keeping both since they are pretty heavily invested in the upcoming sseason.
- Cooshie

Do you think the Leafs have a legit shot to win the Cup this year? Not saying they don't, but the odds seem pretty long for a team who is still learning how to win.

You can't be serious with this. Brown isn't going to camp without a contract, and the Leafs would never allow that to happen. It would be a disaster. Plus, they can only exceed the Cap in the off-season by 10% which they have mostly used up already. Lupul and Horton count against the Cap in the summer. They literally don't have room for Brown's contract until they move out salary.
- djamon

You are wrong on this....I just read a few days ago an article. Leafs have a few smaller moves (buyout / send player to AHL) they can make to easily sign Bozak without touching any of their main stay players. Neither Bozak or JVR or anyone else of consequence needs to be moved in order to sign Brown.

Hagelin to any other fan base is spare parts.....argue it all you want but it's still true. Bozak for Hagelin would be a fleecing by the Pens.
That doesn't mean Hagelin is of no use - but Bozak is WAY more useful to the Leafs (or any other NHL team) than Hagelin. Come on, not even Pen fans can deny this!
- Cooshie

Reading comprehension. I said the Pens would have to add. I did not make any comparison between Bozak and Hags, simply that Hags is not "spare parts."

That's what I'm thinking, which is why I think picks/prospects isn't as crazy as it sounds for a player who is gone at the end of the year anyway. Toronto made the playoffs for the first time in a few years and got bounced in the first round. Are they legit Cup contenders this year? Probably not. If you accept that premise, then Bozak isn't as valuable to keep as some think it is. I think an extra $4.2 mil to work with this year and reinforcements for the near future for a young team is an enticing option.
- T-Train

Bozak plays a premium position, so I don't think they're trying to move him, as opposed to JVR. But regardless of the money, we literally have too many NHL forwards right now. We HAVE to move some out to make room for younger cheaper options. It may involve a 3 for 1 deal, or maybe it involves a trade for picks and prospects, but it's going to happen.

Babcock had this to say regarding Kadri, JVR, Bozak and Leo after the Marleau signing:

“They’re real good players,” the coach said. “And two of them or . . . any way you look at it, we can’t all be on the team as we move ahead. It doesn’t work like that. We have to figure out a way when you have opportunities to do what you can.”

You are wrong on this....I just read a few days ago an article. Leafs have a few smaller moves (buyout / send player to AHL) they can make to easily sign Bozak without touching any of their main stay players. Neither Bozak or JVR or anyone else of consequence needs to be moved in order to sign Brown.
- Cooshie

The buyout period is done. And explain to me which players will get demoted in the summer to make room for Brown's salary (~ 3.5M). Not to mention they're at 48 SPC's which will go up to 49 once Brown is signed.

A move is coming. You can count on that.

Bozak plays a premium position, so I don't think they're trying to move him, as opposed to JVR. But regardless of the money, we literally have too many NHL forwards right now. We HAVE to move some out to make room for younger cheaper options. It may involve a 3 for 1 deal, or maybe it involves a trade for picks and prospects, but it's going to happen.

Babcock had this to say after the Marleau signing:

“They’re real good players,” the coach said. “And two of them or . . . any way you look at it, we can’t all be on the team as we move ahead. It doesn’t work like that. We have to figure out a way when you have opportunities to do what you can.”
- djamon

Very true, can't argue with that. However, do you think Bozak is gone at the end of the season and do you think the Leafs have a legit shot to win the Cup this year?

Do you think the Leafs have a legit shot to win the Cup this year? Not saying they don't, but the odds seem pretty long for a team who is still learning how to win.
- T-Train

I think the Leafs have a shot, but a long shot....a lot of pieces would have to fall into place IMO for that to happen. I think they are a piece or 2 and maybe a couple years of development away.......
But even then, it's not worth trading Bozak away for a player that doesn't fit long term with the Leafs - better to just keep him as a useful part of the 2017/18 Leafs team.

Talent wise it is equal. Both are pending UFA's. So from that aspect it is equal.

But it is not fair value. Value is based on need.
Bozak is the third best center on the leafs. Maybe second ahead of Kadri.
Hornvqvuist would be the 4th line right winger on the leafs behind Marner, Brown, and Nylander. 3rd line if Nylander moves over.
So no, in trade for the leafs it is not fair value. The leafs are worse after trading Bozak for Hornqvuist, not better.
- B-Wforever

You misunderstand value. Value has nothing to do with need. It may be a bad deal for toronto (unless they want nylander at center this year), but its pretty close to fair value. I'd say bozzak is the better player, but teams love a guy like hornqvist in the playoffs.

We can survive without Sheary. We wont win a cup with Carter Rowney as our 3rd line C.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I highly doubt Rowney at 3C is what JR has planned long-term, but if they have to start the season that way it's not the worst thing in the world.

I'm still curious what TB is looking to do with TJ. I remember reading rumors that they'd be trying to move him, but I don't know if that's all changed now since they have so much cap space.

Also, I read Zadorov may be going back to Russia. I guess he has a deal in place, but is waiting to see what COL is going to offer. If he leaves, COL is going to be over a barrel and Sakic could see Duchene go for less than what's already been offered.

The buyout period is done. And explain to me which players will get demoted in the summer to make room for Brown's salary (~ 3.5M). Not to mention they're at 48 SPC's which will go up to 49 once Brown is signed.

A move is coming. You can count on that.
- djamon

When article was written, buyout was one of the options....there were several. One had Leivo being sent down (would end up being exposed)....there were others as well....
If moves are coming (involving JVR / Bozak), it's not for the reason of clearing salary as there are ways of getting Brown in without having to trade those guys....it's because Leafs will get back pieces they deem more valuable to this team.

I think the Leafs have a shot, but a long shot....a lot of pieces would have to fall into place IMO for that to happen. I think they are a piece or 2 and maybe a couple years of development away.......
But even then, it's not worth trading Bozak away for a player that doesn't fit long term with the Leafs - better to just keep him as a useful part of the 2017/18 Leafs team.
- Cooshie

I agree with your assessment of the Leafs chances this year.

Fine about a player not fitting long-term, but that's where picks/prospects come into play. If you are realistically probably a couple of years away from being legit contenders anyway, this scenario would fit into that strategy.

Very true, can't argue with that. However, do you think Bozak is gone at the end of the season and do you think the Leafs have a legit shot to win the Cup this year?
- T-Train

I think the Leafs ride out the year with Bozak and see where we're at in March. I expect us to be well within the Playoffs, but if something happens to prevent that then I could see him moved at the TDL. That's where his value will be at its highest.

Do we have a legit shot? Yes, I think we're a top 10 team next year and any team in the top 10 has a legit shot. We had more points than Nashville this past year and they went to the Finals (can't remember who ended up beating them). Obviously there's teams with far greater shots than us though.

When article was written, buyout was one of the options....there were several. One had Leivo being sent down (would end up being exposed)....there were others as well....
If moves are coming (involving JVR / Bozak), it's not for the reason of clearing salary as there are ways of getting Brown in without having to trade those guys....it's because Leafs will get back pieces they deem more valuable to this team.
- Cooshie

no

https://www.capfriendly.c...-space-of-the-maple-leafs

I agree with your assessment of the Leafs chances this year.

Fine about a player not fitting long-term, but that's where picks/prospects come into play. If you are realistically probably a couple of years away from being legit contenders anyway, this scenario would fit into that strategy.
- T-Train

They need their Larsson-type dman if they're going to go deep in the playoffs. IMO they're not missing much else except experience. They played a solid series against WSH and with the staff they have in place it's hard to imagine they don't see everything that went wrong and remedy those issues.

I don't think they're a long-shot, but I don't think a shoe-in either. I think they're going to finish 2nd behind Tampa, so I can see them getting out of the 2nd round.

Do you think the Leafs have a legit shot to win the Cup this year? Not saying they don't, but the odds seem pretty long for a team who is still learning how to win.
- T-Train

Leafs are closer to being a contender than you think. Especially on there side of their conference. They can get to the ECF final without beating a good team.

In our conference. Washington big step back. CBJ has improved a lot; but maybe do for a little mean reversion. Toronto has gotten better and aged a year. I think the Pens enter the year as big time favorites in our conference but if we are injured and play a healthy toronto team in the ecf then toronto could be the favorite.

Hornqvist would help them with veteran leadership. Probably moreso than Marleau. I don't see a need for them to trade a center for a winger, but maybe babock would want him. Can always ask.

These are just hypotheticals. No reason to get too worked up right now.

Hagelin to any other fan base is spare parts.....argue it all you want but it's still true. Bozak for Hagelin would be a fleecing by the Pens.
That doesn't mean Hagelin is of no use - but Bozak is WAY more useful to the Leafs (or any other NHL team) than Hagelin. Come on, not even Pen fans can deny this!
- Cooshie

Hagelin is not "spare parts"...argue it all you want but its true.

I think the Leafs ride out the year with Bozak and see where we're at in March. I expect us to be well within the Playoffs, but if something happens to prevent that then I could see him moved at the TDL. That's where his value will be at its highest.

Do we have a legit shot? Yes, I think we're a top 10 team next year and any team in the top 10 has a legit shot. We had more points than Nashville this past year and they went to the Finals (can't remember who ended up beating them). Obviously there's teams with far greater shots than us though.
- djamon

Yeah, I think some teams in the East got worse this offseason and I have no doubt the Leafs make the playoffs this year. And yes, anything can happen in the playoffs and it often does. I just think in terms of Cup odds, salary cap, roster, expiring contracts, etc., like you say, a good player is going to be moved to clear space. You think it is JvR and I can't argue with the logic based on roster construction and position needs. I just think if the right deal comes along, moving a 3C in the Leafs situation could very well happen. Maybe they both get moved with little in the way of contracts coming back.