I just looked a that pic. Yikes. At least he called his body "chicken tendery" and Dylan Larkin commented "time to hit the gym" on it.
- JRoenick97

Fortin has the pro game ability to fit in quickest ...maybe....bht with young guys it us all about consistency.

As for Schmautz I do not question his skill. I did not question TT ability either.

But at some point Schmautz is going to be tough enough to play a lot, or the next prospect disapointingly shipped out?

I do not know enough about Sikula. I like Fortin best right now. DeBrincat is a kid I think will work really hard to be effective....as in point producer but he will learn to be responsible enough defensively. I do not see DeBrincat ready to produce this season, although give him time and see what you have in March.

On a different subject, I do not want a third pair level TVR returning. I want to see what becomes of the kids under U Samuelson tutelage. I really hope Forsling can advance but maybe he needs more AHLto become better defensively. I wonder about the progress Krys, Carlsson, and Snuggerud make. Apparently Pokka still in the mix. The other Swedes at Rockford.....well let us see if they progress their second season at the AHL level

Remember when you said any Panarin or Hjallmerson trade would be a cap dump and only bring back picks?

Do you make stock picks? I'd really love to short a few.
- tredbrta

Panarin was clearly full value for full value. Hjalmarsson was more about acquiring futures (that are beyond picks), actual players with so0me unknown upside.

Wow, going all in on the hyperbolic straw man arguments today, aren't we? When you say



it seems like a perfectly reasonable part of the discussion to point out that no team needs help to get over the cap floor now.

You yourself referenced the fact Carolina wanted a pick and a high prospect for a player that's only worth a pick on his own (TVR). The idea that teams will covet Hossa's contract because the cap hit is much higher than the salary doesn't make sense given teams current cap situation. The incentive will be whatever high prospect is included in the deal. And I'm not sure why you're upset at that being pointed out.
- Antilles

Arizona still needs to get over the floor. Nashville too, but they have a few guys to sign.

Fortin has the pro game ability to fit in quickest ...maybe....bht with young guys it us all about consistency.

As for Schmautz I do not question his skill. I did not question TT ability either.

But at some point Schmautz us going to be tough enough to play a lot, or the next prospect dusapointigly shipped out.

I do not know enough about Sikula. I like Fortin best right now. DeBrincat us a kid I think will work really hard to be effective....as in point producer but he will learn to be responsible enough defensively. I do not see DeBrincat ready to produce this season, although give him time and see what you have in March.

On a different subject, I do not want a third pair level THE returning. I want to see what becomes of the kids under U Samuelson tutelage. I really hope Forsling can advance but maybe he need sc tom ed to become better defensively. I wonder about the progress Krys, Carlsson, and Snuggerud make. Apparently Pokka still in the mix. The other Swedes at Rockford.....well let us see if they progress their second season at the AHL level
- jhawk59

If Fortin's body has matured at all over the last year, and he comes into camp healthy, then I think he maybe has the best (and only) rookie shot to make the big team. And it would be outside because he pretty much has to play top 9, style-wise.

Who was talking about meeting the cap floor this year? No one here.
- tredbrta

a non-floor team can always acquire the deal now to help them get over
- John Jaeckel

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/now

Wow, going all in on the hyperbolic straw man arguments today, aren't we? When you say



it seems like a perfectly reasonable part of the discussion to point out that no team needs help to get over the cap floor now.

You yourself referenced the fact Carolina wanted a pick and a high prospect for a player that's only worth a pick on his own (TVR). The idea that teams will covet Hossa's contract because the cap hit is much higher than the salary doesn't make sense given teams current cap situation. The incentive will be whatever high prospect is included in the deal. And I'm not sure why you're upset at that being pointed out.
- Antilles

Not upset, just being a smartass.

Arizona still needs to get over the floor. Nashville too, but they have a few guys to sign.
- JRoenick97

Yeah, I had that in a comment earlier. Arizona still has 2 guys to sign as well. Even if both sign for league minimum (and Duclair will be looking for more) they are over the cap floor.

Edit: Arizona also has like 5.5m in potential bonuses, which counts towards reaching the cap floor. If players don't hit their bonuses and a team ends the season under the cap floor, they just have to pay however far under the floor they were to players as a whole, slightly increasing the amount players get back from escrow.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/now
- Antilles

Ya, in theory.

I operate under the assumption that team's salary cap commitments can go up or down on a moment's notice, not in playing gotcha.

No, he's not. Ultimately, he'll move the deal (if he can) to avoid the same LTIR dance every year.
- John Jaeckel

I agree with Antilles about teams not lining up for Hossa's contract, since they're already above the floor. I can see why the Hawks would have to give up a pick and a good prospect to move his contract at this time. My (hypothetical) question is: if a team is below the floor, and getting a contract like this would really help them, why would Chicago have to trade a good prospect to have them take Hossa's contract?

If Fortin's body has matured at all over the last year, and he comes into camp healthy, then I think he maybe has the best (and only) rookie shot to make the big team. And it would be outside because he pretty much has to play top 9, style-wise.
- John Jaeckel

Exactly my thoughts, based most part on conversation with Wiz. But consistency is key..

On the other hand, DeBrincat is the more intriguing prospect. I want to see him with good coaching in the AHL for a year.

Fortin has the pro game ability to fit in quickest ...maybe....bht with young guys it us all about consistency.

As for Schmautz I do not question his skill. I did not question TT ability either.

But at some point Schmautz us going to be tough enough to play a lot, or the next prospect dusapointigly shipped out.

I do not know enough about Sikula. I like Fortin best right now. DeBrincat us a kid I think will work really hard to be effective....as in point producer but he will learn to be responsible enough defensively. I do not see DeBrincat ready to produce this season, although give him time and see what you have in March.

On a different subject, I do not want a third pair level THE returning. I want to see what becomes of the kids under U Samuelson tutelage. I really hope Forsling can advance but maybe he need sc tom ed to become better defensively. I wonder about the progress Krys, Carlsson, and Snuggerud make. Apparently Pokka still in the mix. The other Swedes at Rockford.....well let us see if they progress their second season at the AHL level
- jhawk59

Schmaltz needs to add some strength to his body. He'll always be able to keep up aerobically because he has a crazy high power output and agility. He was 4th best in power output on the wingate test and 6th best on agility in the 2014 hockey combine. Kid just needs to add some size and he could be a force.

we need Nick S to start hanging with Connor, LOL

https://www.google.com/se...FldOVM:&spf=1500382415678
- kmw4631

Hate to break your hearts, gents, but this is OUR Connor Murphy



Trust me when I say I like it to be the OTHER Connor, too.

Yeah, I had that in a comment earlier. Arizona still has 2 guys to sign as well. Even if both sign for league minimum (and Duclair will be looking for more) they are over the cap floor.
- Antilles

And, you're right, they or Carolina or anyone else will not make any more deals one way or the other.

That's the point.

I have little doubt at this point, the Hawks are holding on to Hossa's deal and putitng him on LTIR this year.

COULD that change before 10/1? Yes, it could. Depending on a variety of factors.

But if it doesn't, there wlil very possibly be a floor team next summer that takes on the deal—either to use it for a subsequent year or two, or with the idea they can flip it some one else. Especially if Bowman throws in some sweetener to just get the administrative headache out of the way.

If your goal is to whiz on everyone's cornflakes here—and say the Hawks are "saddled" with the deal, that's silly and not grounded in fact.

Even if they DO hold on to the deal for four years, it's a logistical challenge and a $1 million expense at worst, but the dollars and cap relevance are . . . meh.

I'll take the action on Bowman not being able to move the deal eventually, because I believe he will, probably next summer before the draft.

Ya, in theory.

I operate under the assumption that team's salary cap commitments can go up or down on a moment's notice, not in playing gotcha.
- John Jaeckel

Sorry, but with how much tredbrta trolls, it's had to resist pointing it out when he is so blatantly wrong while trying to, as you put it "play gotcha."

Hate to break your hearts, gents, but this is OUR Connor Murphy



Trust me when I say I like it to be the OTHER Connor, too.
- pdx2ord

And he looks like his dad.

I agree with Antilles about teams not lining up for Hossa's contract, since they're already above the floor. I can see why the Hawks would have to give up a pick and a good prospect to move his contract at this time. My (hypothetical) question is: if a team is below the floor, and getting a contract like this would really help them, why would Chicago have to trade a good prospect to have them take Hossa's contract?
- tvetter

They prolly wouldn't unless maybe they wanted the other team to throw something in.

My understanding is he has to do a yearly LTIR/replacement thing. I don't think he can take on a long-term deal that "replaces" Hossa over the term of his contract.
- John Jaeckel

He can, see Toronto, whether he wants to is another question.

You're right. The Hawks should probably just quit and fold the franchise. They're doomed.
- John Jaeckel

Eh - they had a good run

Lol I was drinking wine this whole night cause I'm on a staycation. I'm only sad I don't have what I would need to make old fashioneds.
- L_B_R

Ah... interesting how popular an Old Fashions has become. Wasn't at all with anyone under 50-60 when I was growing up now my 28 yr old and his girl friend and good friends drink them often.

Yeah, we fundamentally do not see eye-to-eye on how points should be viewed. I don't understand even a little not taking into consideration games played. I highly doubt you would ranked Kane 32nd among players in 14/15 or rank McDavid 46th among centers in 15/16. Who the (frank) would?

You keep mentioning the other centers who played less than Toews in 15/16 - you get that's my point, right? They played a different number of games, so the starting point for comparing players is already uneven. Why wouldn't you compensate for that?

And we also disagree when it comes to the 15/16 season. The fact that Toews produced at a .81 PPG 14/15 and 16/17, but dipped down a lot in 15/16, suggests that it is an outlier. That's more subjective, but still.

Man, I'm done. My brain cannot comprehend the disregard for PPG as a better evaluator for players with different game samples than flat points. It's really mind boggling to me.
- L_B_R

For fans who read people who post about fancy numbers but kinda glaze over them, or just don't read the post, this place is helpful. Laid out nicely with regular stats too and is a capsule of fancy numbers. Here's Toews' from DobberHockey: http://frozenpool.dobbers...ers=325&games=2016-2017:R

I agree points per game are the stat to follow as long as it's over 50-60 games. Sample size needs to be large. Not many players play all 82 games so the only way to compare numbers is PPG.

But with a guy like Toews, Bergeron or Kopitar, all very similar players, their value goes way beyond PPG IMO. In this instance your super duper deep fancy stats generally bear that out and specifically to Al's points.

As far as Go Johnny Go is concerned I'm curious to know the short version of what age is generally thought to be when numbers start to decline for forwards? Last I knew it was 29 yrs old but I've never seen what that number is from the fancy stat world. Any data on that? Corsi especially I'd be interested to know at what age that number falls. You just can't get a value on guys like Toews, Bergeron or Kopitar from straight numbers.

Another factor to consider is that perennial floor teams are there because they do not have the revenue stream to support a salary range near the cap ceiling. In other words the cap ceiling is $75 mil. The cap floor is $55.4. Small market teams would lose their ass if they were paying salaries up to the cap ceiling. So they may have their own self imposed budget of let's say $65 to $70 mil (in actual salaries). So given a suitable incentive they could take on the Hossa contract.

They only payout $1mil per year for 4 years on Hossa's contrac. They take on a cap hit of $5.275mil for 4 years which means nothing to them. In consideration of them doing that they pick up assets (some combination of players, prospects and draft picks). I believe the Hawks could also retain $1 mil per year in salary so the receiving team would have no cash outlay.
- -Doh-

Not sure the Hawks could pick up the actual salary for the duration. Probably the first year though. I do think we may see this play out as more of an add on to another trade (like E Kane) - lowering the cost to move it. That depends on Stan's need/urgency to get it done though.

Virtually guaranteed there will be a group of teams looking for an ROI of 1 to 5 on cap space.

Schmaltz needs to add some strength to his body. He'll always be able to keep up aerobically because he has a crazy high power output and agility. He was 4th best in power output on the wingate test and 6th best on agility in the 2014 hockey combine. Kid just needs to add some size and he could be a force.
- JRoenick97

Are there websites that post combine results from past years? That would be interesting to look at.

JJ that Schmaltz instagram feeder was me. I thought the same thing as you when I saw it, guy that looks that soft usually is that soft.

JJ you hear anything on Tatar? Wings having issues locking him up, maybe with LTIR Hossa we could make a play? I think he'd be a great fit opposite Kane.
- Bjm84

Is it me, or does Nick strongly look like Johnny in the Outsiders? A young Ralph Macchio....

[img][/img]

I never said that, though I multiple times said Hawks couldn't trade them and get cap space back as well as equal or better players for next year. I was right. I'm not surprised you didn't comprehend though, you see another teams tag on a user and instantly assume they are wrong unless agreeing with whatever Hawks fans hope to be true.
- Antilles

With all due respect Hammer and Panarin fell into the category of players Bowman could trade... I talked about why it made monetary sense for Hammer to leave this summer back in April on the radio. Panarin had a contract free of clauses restricting trades.

Don't know if u have been to the UC but trading Kane would guarantee a large loss of revenue because there would probably be a significant drop off in gate receipts and everything that follows.

Beyond the fact the Hawks would be dealing the best player in the trade and those deals are usually only done by a club rebuilding.. The UC is a large arena and the all the seats need to be filled to keep the engine running.

Schmaltz needs to add some strength to his body. He'll always be able to keep up aerobically because he has a crazy high power output and agility. He was 4th best in power output on the wingate test and 6th best on agility in the 2014 hockey combine. Kid just needs to add some size and he could be a force.
- JRoenick97

Thanks for those numbers. Never saw them before. I see guys like Schmaltz and TT as playing with explosion, that's their strength, not power. An explosion that is seen in quickness and burst.

That is seen in plays where they lift a stick, hit a seam or gain separation in large and small spaces. Their game is predicated on explosion not power. In fact if they bulk too much many times that takes away from their explosion. Not saying those kinds can't hit the weight room but if they do they still won't impress with their build. They work on accentuating their explosive strengths, not power.