Jesus Christ.

That's not how it works. You don't draft goalies there because you don't know which ones will be any good. Once they are good it's fine to pay that for them. Andersen was a 1st and a 2nd and then immediately signed to a huge contract. 21 in '15 was an overpayment sure, but we needed a goalie, very badly, and when you need something badly teams know that and you pay a premium. Plus we got him cost controlled for 3 years, something no one factors into the cost, you should.
- Wetbandit1

We did, but again, the timing was wrong. We didnt need one that year.

We could have signed free agent X or Y that could have played the 26 games Lehner did.

I don't hate what Lehner is as a goalie, he has the potential to be a decent starter. But Murray had no plan, he just thought he could trade for 4 or 5 guys and we'd take off.

If Lehner goes out and wins a Vezina, I'll be the first to eat my words about the trade, but until he does, it's just a bad move

We did, but again, the timing was wrong. We didnt need one that year.

We could have signed free agent X or Y that could have played the 26 games Lehner did.

I don't hate what Lehner is as a goalie, he has the potential to be a decent starter. But Murray had no plan, he just thought he could trade for 4 or 5 guys and we'd take off.

If Lehner goes out and wins a Vezina, I'll be the first to eat my words about the trade, but until he does, it's just a bad move
- sbroads24

Cmon man.

How can you pretend the proper analysis of the trade begins with the hindsight that he would suffer that injury.

I believe you're intellectually better than this, but your bitterness just gets in your way.

We did, but again, the timing was wrong. We didnt need one that year.

We could have signed free agent X or Y that could have played the 26 games Lehner did.

I don't hate what Lehner is as a goalie, he has the potential to be a decent starter. But Murray had no plan, he just thought he could trade for 4 or 5 guys and we'd take off.

If Lehner goes out and wins a Vezina, I'll be the first to eat my words about the trade, but until he does, it's just a bad move
- sbroads24

Was the timing that much different than when the Oilers or Leafs traded for their goalies?

Cmon man.

How can you pretend the proper analysis of the trade begins with the hindsight that he would suffer that injury.

I believe you're intellectually better than this, but your bitterness just gets in your way.
- Der Kaiser

My point is that the "We needed a goalie, badly" was never a valid excuse to make that deal.

We didnt need one that year, and even if we did, Lehner, coming off injuries, was injured again and barely played.

If Lehner was an excellent, franchise goalie, worthy of a good draft pick, in a very good draft, we wouldnt be talking about a one year deal that almost went to arbitration. We'd be talking about a long term deal

The fact that it's not a forgone conclusion that he's our starter for the next 5-7 years is all we need to know.

Again, if he goes and puts himself into the Vezina conversation this year, the convo changes

Do me a favor and go look at his stats and count how many games he let in three to four goals

Should be over 30
- GERBE!!!75PTS

28 times he allowed 3+, 48% of his starts, but that also means 30 times he allowed 2 or less. So 30 times a team that's semi competent at scoring goals has an automatic win and yet he only had 23 wins. Whose fault is that?

He had a .552 quality start percentage(which is a bit lower than his career average of .581). So he should've earned 64 points if the team could score goals and take advantage of his good starts. He earned 54 points. Again, that's less than he should've had because the team around him wasn't good enough. If the team had more points than they should've then, sure it's his fault, but they had 5 less wins than they should've.

Lehner was so far from the problem last year that it's crazy we're talking about it. Can we go back to Kane?

Just for fun. Carey Price had 23 games where he allowed 3 or more goals, 37% of his starts.

Corey Crawford had 28 games where he allowed 3 or more, or 51% of his starts. That's more than the terrible Lehner.

Was the timing that much different than when the Oilers or Leafs traded for their goalies?
- jdfitz77

No, the Leafs just happened to get super lucky with 47 rookies this year.

Was the timing that much different than when the Oilers or Leafs traded for their goalies?
- jdfitz77

Oilers were farther along than we were.

I'm fine that we traded for Lehner. It's the price.

You were a rebuilding team, that needed everything, and you moved 4 picks in the top 50 of a really, really good 15 draft. Just inexcusebale

Oilers were farther along than we were.

I'm fine that we traded for Lehner. It's the price.

You were a rebuilding team, that needed everything, and you moved 4 picks in the top 50 of a really, really good 15 draft. Just inexcusebale
- sbroads24

How so?


And I'm not saying I agree with the trade
Just your reasoning on it being about "timing"

No, the Leafs just happened to get super lucky with 47 rookies this year.
- Wetbandit1

Agree
And they're likely to take a step back imo
Just like Colorado & Winnipeg did

Shes not attractive to me I'm sure people here don't find demi lovato , Olivia Holt , Hailee Steinfeld ,Dave Cameron

So what's the big deal
- GERBE!!!75PTS

How so?


And I'm not saying I agree with the trade
Just your reasoning on it being about "timing"
- jdfitz77

Well, they were drafting McDavid, and had guys like Hall, Eberle, RNH, all in the system already.

They were awful that year, but they had a lot more top end talent.

Oilers were farther along than we were.

I'm fine that we traded for Lehner. It's the price.

You were a rebuilding team, that needed everything, and you moved 4 picks in the top 50 of a really, really good 15 draft. Just inexcusebale
- sbroads24

The timing is also an issue with value. Its not like Lehner was coming off a breakout year.

In fact that summer most were talking about him being a decent low risk/buy low option.

even if you think as a gm that player is going to be great, why would you overpay when you dont really have to. That summer the other team mentioned with lehner was Edmonton. Was the drop at that time from Lehner to Talbot really that much? Like he paid this price as if there was literally no other goalie worth acquiring on the market.

Agree
And they're likely to take a step back imo
Just like Colorado & Winnipeg did
- jdfitz77

Eh, One of these teams won 40 games last year. Not really comparable to the Avs

The timing is also an issue with value. Its not like Lehner was coming off a breakout year.

In fact that summer most were talking about him being a decent low risk/buy low option.

even if you think as a gm that player is going to be great, why would you overpay when you dont really have to. That summer the other team mentioned with lehner was Edmonton. Was the drop at that time from Lehner to Talbot really that much? Like he paid this price as if there was literally no other goalie worth acquiring on the market.
- Sabresfan-365

Yup, exactly.

Oilers were farther along than we were.

I'm fine that we traded for Lehner. It's the price.

You were a rebuilding team, that needed everything, and you moved 4 picks in the top 50 of a really, really good 15 draft. Just inexcusebale
- sbroads24

No they weren't. Only in the sense that they were getting McDavid and we were getting Eichel were they farther along.

The timing is also an issue with value. Its not like Lehner was coming off a breakout year.

In fact that summer most were talking about him being a decent low risk/buy low option.

even if you think as a gm that player is going to be great, why would you overpay when you dont really have to. That summer the other team mentioned with lehner was Edmonton. Was the drop at that time from Lehner to Talbot really that much? Like he paid this price as if there was literally no other goalie worth acquiring on the market.
- Sabresfan-365

And if the Sabres could score some (frank)ing goals, we wouldn't be talking about Lehner at all.

And if the Sabres could score some (frank)ing goals, we wouldn't be talking about Lehner at all.
- Wetbandit1

i wonder what asset could have been used for that

Well, they were drafting McDavid, and had guys like Hall, Eberle, RNH, all in the system already.

They were awful that year, but they had a lot more top end talent.
- sbroads24

And accomplished precisely Richard with them. Except more 1st overall picks.

i wonder what asset could have been used for that
- Sabresfan-365

Umm, not Colin White.

No they weren't. Only in the sense that they were getting McDavid and we were getting Eichel were they farther along.
- Wetbandit1

A. They were 8 points better than us that year
B. They had Eberle, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Draisaitl, Klefbom already on the roster. We had Sam Reinhart, Risto, and an injured Kane, and our leading scorer was tyler freaking Ennis.

They were well ahead

Umm, not Colin White.
- Wetbandit1

i mean it didnt have to be him or a pick but since this is the example were going with...

the unknown years away colin white is probably gunna play in the nhl next year no? And we've still been bad during that stretch where he's been mr unknown

Well, they were drafting McDavid, and had guys like Hall, Eberle, RNH, all in the system already.

They were awful that year, but they had a lot more top end talent.
- sbroads24

And those guys were acquired over EIGHT years of drafting
We we supposed to tank for that long?

We just as easily could've ended up with a Yakupov or Paajarvi as we could've another "core" piece

We had Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly & Kane
just bc it hasn't worked out yet,
doesn't mean that's not a good group of forwards to build around

In Edmonton,
Hall & Everle are already gone & RNH could be soon too
So idk how they were much farther along than us?

i mean it didnt have to be him or a pick but since this is the example were going with...

the unknown years away colin white is probably gunna play in the nhl next year no? And we've still been bad during that stretch where he's been mr unknown
- Sabresfan-365

He's not going to make the Sabres score 1+ more goals per game.

And if the Sabres could score some (frank)ing goals, we wouldn't be talking about Lehner at all.
- Wetbandit1

Bold prediction: Risto will have 12-15 goals this year

A. They were 8 points better than us that year
B. They had Eberle, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Draisaitl, Klefbom already on the roster. We had Sam Reinhart, Risto, and an injured Kane, and our leading scorer was tyler freaking Ennis.

They were well ahead
- sbroads24

At getting 1st overall picks. They had done nothing but get high picks with those guys before Jesus came along.

8 points in a year we tried our level best to lose. Yeah, light years ahead they were.