The east was 233-158-57 vs the West last season....

Conversely, the West was 215-185-48 vs the East.

That means the west took 478 points of a possible 896 off the East, whereas the east took 523 points off the West.

So... I dunno... maybe the East is actually better?

Lots of Western point totals were buoyed by some pretty awful teams in Arizona, Vancouver and Colorado too.

Only one team in the east had 70 or fewer points... there were 3 in the West.
- BINGO!

The East is better. Or def was last year. Then again, the Caps weight the average in the East. LOL

GMRF tell you that? Personally?

I'm not sure he has even categorically said that in the media (and even then, caveat emptor, GMs say a lot of things they're not gonna do then turn around and do them).

Not to pick on you, but I HATE when fans say their team is or isn't going to do something when they don't know—it's just what they WANT to believe.

I hear a lot of legitimate things and even I try to always keep the door open that something I'm hearing might not happen, could be a smokescreen or if it doesn't make sense to me as a fan—it may later on.
- John Jaeckel

No, but that's fair... I should have said "I don't think..." before hand.

It would surprise me if they did it.

Settle down, just looking for a compare
- Yikes726

The pot shot at the Canes was pretty unnecessary. Remember not much more than a few years ago the Hawks were perennial junk.

Some more ifs into the mix. As far as the penalty killers, you have Toews, Saad, Anisimov, Kero. Generally, the bottom six is where your penalty killers come from, so the top six can save themselves for 5 on 5 and the power play. So they will need some PK forwards to come from the lower lines. Check out Lance Bouma on youtube and I was poking around in the NHL stats from the past year or two. Bouma is quite the shot blocking forward, with many coming on the PK. He will hit anybody and has decent speed too. I think your penalty killers from the lower lines will come from the likes of Kero - Bouma and Wingels. But they will have to earn it of course
- chuckdahammer

I have zero issue at this point with Bouma. The only 50%+ FO option (or close to it) on the PK is Toews. Not good. For the team or for Toews.

I don't have the #s in front of me but a LARGE % of draws on the PK are in the d-zone.

The "face-offs don't matter" pitchfork mob needs to unbury their collective heads and recognize that and the OBVIOUS link to your overall PK%. This is why Kero's 46% last year does NOT "replace" Kruger (not necessarily, if Kero does not get more in that 50%+ zone).

The Hawks have declined precipitously and in direct relation for three consecutive seasons on those two stats. So have their playoff fortunes.

Cause, effect.

Toews can't take all the draws in all the situations. If he has to, then everyone knows EXACTLY where his 5-on-5 decline is coming from.

No, but that's fair... I should have said "I don't think..." before hand.

It would surprise me if they did it.
- BINGO!

Yep, no worries though.

Yep, no worries though.
- John Jaeckel

The ownership situation kind of throws a wrench into some things, I think. When trying to close a deal, I don't know that adding "dead weight" salary necessarily helps.

The east was 233-158-57 vs the West last season....

Conversely, the West was 215-185-48 vs the East.

That means the west took 478 points of a possible 896 off the East, whereas the east took 523 points off the West.

So... I dunno... maybe the East is actually better?

Lots of Western point totals were buoyed by some pretty awful teams in Arizona, Vancouver and Colorado too.

Only one team in the east had 70 or fewer points... there were 3 in the West.
- BINGO!

The East had a big upswing against the West last year, no question. It was a role reversal considering it was usually the West was stronger until last year.

The ownership situation kind of throws a wrench into some things, I think. When trying to close a deal, I don't know that adding "dead weight" salary necessarily helps.
- BINGO!

Agreed, but unless it's a true floor team scenario, the hawks will likely add a significant sweetener—should they (or when they) decide to move the deal.

They can do the LTIR dance every year for 4 years, but I don't see them wanting to do that.

Never know, if they did tear down in 2019, would they be a floor team for a couple of years? Doubtful. But it's all just moving money around and why I think they will end up moving the deal somehow to someone.

Were the Hawks looking at resigning Oduya at all for defensive depth or was he out of price range?

Great article as usual too.
- BlackhawkMike

http://www.tsn.ca/dorion-...-offer-elsewhere-1.813063

FWIW, there was an article on TSN yesterday about Oduya signing with the Senators even though another team gave him a better offer. Oduya's reason for signing with Ottawa is because he felt they had the greater chance of winning.

Yeah two years ago for sure. 1 year ago it was pretty balanced. Last year I think the transition really began. A lot of the powerhouse teams in the west were made up of older players...
- BINGO!

Solid 4-5 years that the West was significantly better than the East prior to last season. Like 2010-2016.

The year the Hawks lost to the Kings in the WCF, there were 4 teams in the West that would have beaten anyone coming from the aeast.

What is going on with Vegas and their surplus of Dmen? Doesn't McPhee still have about 12 Dmen on 1-way NHL contracts?? There are a handful of guys Vegas drafted that would be upgrades for the Hawks 3rd pair. One would think that StanBo has something brewing with Vegas once the season starts.....
- EnzoD

There is still that guy "Future Consideration" to get.

I have zero issue at this point with Bouma. The only 50%+ FO option (or close to it) on the PK is Toews. Not good. For the team or for Toews.

I don't have the #s in front of me but a LARGE % of draws on the PK are in the d-zone.

The "face-offs don't matter" pitchfork mob needs to unbury their collective heads and recognize that and the OBVIOUS link to your overall PK%. This is why Kero's 46% last year does NOT "replace" Kruger (not necessarily, if Kero does not get more in that 50%+ zone).

The Hawks have declined precipitously and in direct relation for three consecutive seasons on those two stats. So have their playoff fortunes.

Cause, effect.

Toews can't take all the draws in all the situations. If he has to, then everyone knows EXACTLY where his 5-on-5 decline is coming from.
- John Jaeckel

The game begins in the dot and ends in the opposition's crease. The Hawks were nothing short of miserable in both spots last year. Shaw's crease presence is sorely missed, especially in the short post-season last year. 45% is not far from 50% 5 on 5 but on PK and PP it's bigger especially with the game on the line.

The Hawks go as far as Crow takes them, he is not replaceable. He needs to be better than ever this year for the Hawks to contend. If so, the Rodney label goes away and the Hawks can put the rebuild off for another year. No warm and fuzzies for a tandem of Berube and Forsberg.

It's gigantic to me. 4/27 were frequent PO shutdown guys on the '13 and '15 cup teams. To me, it's unfair to expect Kemp/Murph to come remotely close to that in 9 months.
- blackhawk24

Another thing to consider in terms of tempering expectations of Kempny, Murphy, and even Rutta is that Oduya wasn't quite the warrior we remember him as in the 2013 and 2015 championship years when he first arrived in Chicago. It took him some time to grow into that reputation.

And let's not forget that he also was frequently referred to as the Pizza Man so it's not like Oduya was a flawless defender. So Oduya in his best years was no doubt > than today's versions of Kempny, Murphy, or Rutta. But once these 3 hit their stride, any one of or all of them could be better than Oduya. We just don't know yet.

Granted I have not seen Dauphin a LOT. But what I HAVE seen tells me he will be a nice lower line/penalty killing forward for Chicago. In 24 NHL games last year he was around 46% on face-offs and he is a natural center. If he can get that 46% closer to 50%, that would be YUGE.

He also brings a lot of sheer speed.
- John Jaeckel

And from what've read about Dauphin and seen in videos, he has an endless motor who is relentless on the puck. Reminds me of Danault. Reports also say that Dauphin is great in tight spaces which is a plus when battling in corners or having an opposing player (or two) on your tail.

I like the work Ronnie Francis is doing.

Hawk fans need to accept the teardown IS coming. Question is when.

Bowman is trying this summer to see if he can do what Rutherford did and extend the viability and return on his core a couple years or more longer.

I think if the Hawks get bounced out in round 1 this year or worse yet blown out like they were last year, management may decide it is a good time to sell high on assets like Keith or even Kane and seriously rebuild with elite prospects and high picks.

That is my opinion, I have not heard that.

And it may well be the team will take the Detroit/Slow downgrade route.

My preference as a fan would be they not do that—just really tank for 2-3 years and come back strong with another period of dominance.
- John Jaeckel

The hard part about tanking in the NHL is that there is just too much uncertainty at the top of the draft to be assured that you can come back in a few years. Take a team like EDM who loaded up on top picks for years, with little return to show for it. Yeah, a year like 2015 it looks great with McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Strome, etc. sitting at the top, but get a mediocre draft class like 2017 and that re-build takes a whole lot longer.

To me it's easier to sell a rebuild than to try and recover from the apathy that grows around an average/below average team. Hopefully Rocky sees that you can build excitement around a rebuild, rather than have fans walk away as the team slowly falls apart.
- BINGO!

They're neither going for rebuild or a slow fade - they're retooling on the fly. It's why they got guys like Saad and Murphy obviously. It may not work, but it's a better solution when you still have some good players on the roster, including one of the best offensive forwards and a more than capable 1D. Last year's playoffs sucked, but the team still managed to be the top ranked team in the West (and they lost to a team that was only that low because they were horrible at OT/SO - they were 2 regulation wins difference between Chicago and Nashville). There's no reason to throw in the towel yet when a retool could work for the near future.

I also don't know if it is easier to sell a rebuild anyway - it's still too close to cup wins / they have too many good players for fans not to expect some level of success. It's not like they won and then dropped like a stone into obscurity so a rebuild years later was more than welcome.

Good points, and I don't disagree. I think the "lamentations" of lost "offense" with Panarin leaving are way overblown. I also think, hell, if not Sharp, then Hartman can be productive enough with AA and Kane. Hawks are nice and deep at forward again. i think it would also be great to let Schmaltz center a lower line if he can hack it to gain experience there, as that is going toe his best NHL position assuming he advances physically.
- John Jaeckel

Don't think they are overblown as the entire. Panarin got more assists because Kane scored more is sour grapes stuff; the fact is that a large degree of setups for goals that just would not be happening otherwise... or put another way - Kane got a fair few one-timer goals himself off of like feeds from Panarin as Panarin got from Kane.

Doesn't really matter now anyway since it is a different team, and I do agree with the conclusion that this looks like a better overall group of forwards than last season. Stan looks to have gone out and got a lot of guys that are willing to do work... kinda interested to see it.

And from what've read about Dauphin and seen in videos, he has an endless motor who is relentless on the puck. Reminds me of Danault. Reports also say that Dauphin is great in tight spaces which is a plus when battling in corners or having an opposing player (or two) on your tail.
- AEL_Fox

Dauphin, from what little I've seen, reminds me bit of both Danault and Bolland. More so than Freddy. Hawks will miss Kruger's faceoff option on special teams until someone can prove himself.

Hopefully Dauphin is the real deal and pans out for the Hawks

Granted I have not seen Dauphin a LOT. But what I HAVE seen tells me he will be a nice lower line/penalty killing forward for Chicago. In 24 NHL games last year he was around 46% on face-offs and he is a natural center. If he can get that 46% closer to 50%, that would be YUGE.

He also brings a lot of sheer speed.
- John Jaeckel

So you think these lines are possible to start:
Saad/Toews/Panik
Schmaltz/AA/Kane
Sharp/Kero/Hartman
Wingels/Dauphin/Bouma

Don't think they are overblown as the entire. Panarin got more assists because Kane scored more is sour grapes stuff; the fact is that a large degree of setups for goals that just would not be happening otherwise... or put another way - Kane got a fair few one-timer goals himself off of like feeds from Panarin as Panarin got from Kane.

Doesn't really matter now anyway since it is a different team, and I do agree with the conclusion that this looks like a better overall group of forwards than last season. Stan looks to have gone out and got a lot of guys that are willing to do work... kinda interested to see it.
- steve-hist-sdc

My thoughts is just go thru the lines.

last year was something like below we might have a net of 15 more goals with 3 lines being better and only 1 worse.

1st: 65 and this year will be 75.
2nd:85 and this year 75
3rd:40 and this 50
4th:20 and this 25

in regard to franson, I have to think he would be better then Roz. Why wouldn't we sign him and send Roz to AHL? Even if we sign him and he is bad we could just send Franson down to the AHL.

I think that while losing Panarin is a massive points void, I think Toews and Saad will have bigger point outputs playing together. So essentially I think the scoring will even itself out. The Hawks might be less offensive than the past two years but I think the scoring might end up being more balanced between all four lines. That defense tho....

Assuming that Seebs is paired with Keith, which Q hinted at during the convention, what in the hell do you have after that? I think both Keith and Seabrook would benefit well from playing with each other. The scary thing is that you don't have anything "rock solid" to fall back on after them. I mean Nick Leddy was shaky to start his career but turned out to be a real solid defensemen. So I suppose the theory is that Murphy could blossom into a real solid D-man. And if our "prospect/project" defensemen turn out solid then we have young, cost-controlled d-men to build a future with.

I guess my biggest concern here is will Q show the patience to work with these defensemen. We've seen in years past his absolute unwillingness to play rookie/younger players who are not just outright superstars. We've also seen him just straight up bench players who are young and make a mistake. I want these players to develop and I want them to become solid NHL d-men. But my fear is that Q is set in his ways and it just isn't going to happen.

Am I totally off my rocker on this or is there some legit concern here?

Dauphin, from what little I've seen, reminds me bit of both Danault and Bolland. More so than Freddy. Hawks will miss Kruger's faceoff option on special teams until someone can prove himself.

Hopefully Dauphin is the real deal and pans out for the Hawks
- grinder10

I watched his IIHF U18 highlights and the kid is relentless and fearless. His move is to drive the net as hard as possible, and he will get back to recover a lost puck a fast as he can. He could be a sneaky good pick up for us.

I am taking the optimistic viewpoint that U Samuelson will prove that he can mold one, possibly two young defenders into regular turns on a pairing. But......obviously Q has to give enough rope and patience will be rewarded. Those euro candidates are not each fresh greenhorns straight out of junior. Forsling may turn out to be the player with more seasoning (read:AHL) required

I question how far you get with a journeyman added to the blue line. I did not want to see that Oduya is past his prime and not worth the $. Good luck he has enough left, Ottawa. And Rozival doesn't have to do a whole lot, just keep it simple...yet that is an oxymoron because finally this time he is probably washed up.

There is Pokka and Gustafson hanging on maybe by more than a thread for perhaps the beginning of the season. But I really want to bet in one, if not two of the euro kids I first mentioned to grade out acceptable sooner or is it later in the season. They are the kids that can become better than some past defenseman in the 4-7 slot.

I am sure there is mistrust and cynicism over my trusting Ulfie with the kids. I just hope the Blackhawks can come out saying what another Chicago sports team said a few years ago AND what the both baseball teams hope proves true in the near future: the kids are alright.

They're well on their way to fading into mediocrity right now, but I see your point. They may have salvaged something this year, but with each year that passes the decline becomes harder to counteract.
- BINGO!

Meh, when Toews and Kane are 32 like Datsyuk and Zberg were and Keith is 38 then it'll be a problem.

Now. Meh. With decent health there's enough winners on that team + Crawford to at least make noise in the playoffs.

A few of the younger guys need to take a step forward this year and Panik has to be better than dreadful.

Better off than most teams and close to even with Nashville on paper at least.

If Bowman doesn't jumpstart the team with what he's doing now, they'll be mediocre before 5 years is up.

You may be right that they'll go the Detroit route—and the reasons you cite above are precisely why they did. They didn't want to take the revenue hit. All that said, Rocky is a smart businessman and he might be willing to ride out a serious teardown/rebuild but i do agree not in the next couple of years in all likelihood. So next season is probably unlikely. 2019? Whole different story.
- John Jaeckel

A lot of it is all corporate sales too so there's a pretty serious cow being milked right now. The whole thing is a Disney-esque production right now. Which is neat but I don't have a whole lot of desire to go to games at this point.

I think there are a lot of big egos in the room as well who don't want to 'give up' for lack of a better term. You'll see Q out and Bowman out before they start to move big pieces me thinks.