Agree completely. I just cannot fathom a scenario in which Bowman sticks with the current Defensive Depth Chart. I'd take nearly anyone over Rosival at this stage in his career. Another poster mentioned the "future considerations" from the Kruger trade as one of the extra Dmen. Hopefully Rutta is a pleasant surprise. I think Forsling will be the 3LD to start the season. - EnzoD
The good thing about the defensive depth chart - kids like Forsling, Rutta, Pokka, Oesterle, Gustafsson and probably a couple of others from Rockford come to camp knowing there is at least 2 spots open and they have a legitimate chance to make the team. And if they sign Butcher, there's one more. Throw them all in the deep end and find out who can swim.
If Rosy plays more than a few games, you know there are a bunch of broken legs among these other DMen. He's nothing more than a translator/assistant coach/fill in. Could be waived or even retire during training camp.
And I'd rather have the youth learning and making mistakes than seeing overpaid stiffs like Clayton Stoner or Dereyk Engelland or Cody Franson get a uniform.
The good thing about the defensive depth chart - kids like Forsling, Rutta, Pokka, Oesterle, Gustafsson and probably a couple of others from Rockford come to camp knowing there is at least 2 spots open and they have a legitimate chance to make the team. And if they sign Butcher, there's one more. Throw them all in the deep end and find out who can swim.
If Rosy plays more than a few games, you know there are a bunch of broken legs among these other DMen. He's nothing more than a translator/assistant coach/fill in. Could be waived or even retire during training camp.
And I'd rather have the youth learning and making mistakes than seeing overpaid stiffs like Clayton Stoner or Dereyk Engelland or Cody Franson get a uniform. - RickJ
In theory your post makes sense, but what if they all struggle? Say what you will about guys like Stoner, Engelland or Franson (and I agree they are far from good NHL dmen)....but they've still been NHL dmen. Gustav Forsling has a total of 38 games of NHL experience, the most of any player in that group you mentioned. If a guy like Franson signs a league minimum 1 year deal to be nothing more than an injury insurance policy, despite his flaws, he is likely a better NHL Dman than Pokka, Gustaffson and Svedberg. I want nothing more than Forsling and Rutta to succeed. But, banking on them or Rosival on the 3rd pair (not to mention the still unproven and mistake-prone Kempny at 4D), is a recipe for disaster IMO.
My take on The Will Butcher situation,
When most hear the words, BlackHawks and Hobey Baker , the 1st thing that comes to most minds , mine included is Stiffs like Drew LeBlanc and Bill Watson. why I think this is different is the fact that Butcher was actually good enough to be drafted by an NHL club, where, correct me if I am wrong, Watson and LeBlanc were not. Big difference there. I understand the concept of catching lightening in a bottle when it comes to situations like this but most times they don't work out.
Which also is why I am skeptical on Ruutta, Kempney, and even Kero and a few other who weren't even drafted.
I for one hope Will Butcher signs here in Chicago even if he has to do a couple of months in Rockford , I see another Danny DeKeyser, The kid in Boston, or even Shane Gostesbiere as a possible comparable if he pans out.
As far as names being thrown around for FA Defensemen, 1st, Derek Englland is staying in Vegas, not going anywhere, lives there full time, scratch that, I see nothing wrong with adding either Cody Franson or Clayton Stoner on your back end as a number 6 guy to add the vet presence and bust a few heads out there and clear the crease since guys like Seabrooke have become the best poke checkers lately.
In my mind, Gusteffsson and Svedberg are busts, Forsling may be a find same with Snuggerud down the road. And another huge part of the equation for this is Q ain't going into the season with a totally young D so it is possible you will see either Franson or Stoner make the team if they are in our camp.
In theory your post makes sense, but what if they all struggle? Say what you will about guys like Stoner, Engelland or Franson (and I agree they are far from good NHL dmen)....but they've still been NHL dmen. Gustav Forsling has a total of 38 games of NHL experience, the most of any player in that group you mentioned. If a guy like Franson signs a league minimum 1 year deal to be nothing more than an injury insurance policy, despite his flaws, he is likely a better NHL Dman than Pokka, Gustaffson and Svedberg. I want nothing more than Forsling and Rutta to succeed. But, banking on them or Rosival on the 3rd pair (not to mention the still unproven and mistake-prone Kempny at 4D), is a recipe for disaster IMO. - EnzoD
If they all struggle, Hossa goes to LTIR on day one and then they have 5.75m to pick up a FA d-man via FA or trade.
My take on The Will Butcher situation,
When most hear the words, BlackHawks and Hobey Baker , the 1st thing that comes to most minds , mine included is Stiffs like Drew LeBlanc and Bill Watson. why I think this is different is the fact that Butcher was actually good enough to be drafted by an NHL club, where, correct me if I am wrong, Watson and LeBlanc were not. Big difference there. I understand the concept of catching lightening in a bottle when it comes to situations like this but most times they don't work out.
Which also is why I am skeptical on Ruutta, Kempney, and even Kero and a few other who weren't even drafted.
I for one hope Will Butcher signs here in Chicago even if he has to do a couple of months in Rockford , I see another Danny DeKeyser, The kid in Boston, or even Shane Gostesbiere as a possible comparable if he pans out.
As far as names being thrown around for FA Defensemen, 1st, Derek Englland is staying in Vegas, not going anywhere, lives there full time, scratch that, I see nothing wrong with adding either Cody Franson or Clayton Stoner on your back end as a number 6 guy to add the vet presence and bust a few heads out there and clear the crease since guys like Seabrooke have become the best poke checkers lately.
In my mind, Gusteffsson and Svedberg are busts, Forsling may be a find same with Snuggerud down the road. And another huge part of the equation for this is Q ain't going into the season with a totally young D so it is possible you will see either Franson or Stoner make the team if they are in our camp. - wonthecup10
I agree with most of this except Gustafsson. Kid actually has talent and did well his first few games, save the bad turnover in the playoffs, but hey, he was a rook. That stuff will happen. He just never fit Kitchen's style of possession D and breakout passes. He's a carry the puck kind of player, like Leddy, who also struggled in our system. Svedberg is a bust. Stoner is olay, but he makes like 4m per season. Too rich for what he brings. I have higher hopes for Ruuta than I did Kempny based on his play style, but that's just my opinion. I don't have much of an opinion on Franson. Let him battle in camp if he's there.
In regards to this #5 - #7 or 8 discussion of d-men.
Q likes Rozy because he knows what Rozy can and cannot do.
Q would probably trust Franson, Stoner (won't get him), McNabb, etc, because there's tape of them playing in the NHL and the staff knows what they can and cannot do.
Q is leary of Forsling and Gus, but has seen them at the NHL level and has an beginner's good of what they can and cannot do.
Q is mildly leary of over overseas free agents like Kempny and Rutta, because he has tape of them playing professionally, although it isn't the highest calibur competition like the NHL, but he has an idea of what they can or cannot do and challenges of coming over to a new country and different size ice.
Q is VERY leary of rookie d-men/college FA/etc. because they have limited or no experience at the NHL level and he doesn't have the knowledge to know what they can or cannot do. But if they come up and play a simple game and don't make too many glaring mistakes, he gives them a longer leash.
I think this is has been shown in his years of coaching here and can also be used for Forwards as well.
Based on what? Advanced stats? Eye test showed me that Rosival cannot skate in the NHL anymore. Those 3 guys are barely #6 NHL dmen, but Rosival simply does not belong in the NHL. I cannot think of a reason they keep signing him beyond mentorship for young Czechs Kempny and Rutta. All 3 of those guys would be the 6/7 dmen, ideally. - EnzoD
Rosival is so slow , I was thinking he retires and that the only reason they signed him was because of expansion draft, I think he makes 650K so if they send him down he doesn't affect the cap.
I was hoping he would retired. I so agree with you on him.
Not saying he is a lock to make the NHL whether with the Hawks, Senators, Wild, or whoever else, but Butcher's style of play and his physical stature reminds me of Krug in Boston. Not a bad comparable as far as potential. - AEL_Fox
Didn't you think that the ELBOW aricle you linked on Butcher was being tongue & cheek about Butch almost a done deal with Blackhawks?
I agree with George O who said this about the possibilty of Butcher being all that:
Since 2000, almost half (8) of the award winners went undrafted and either never played a game in the NHL or had the proverbial cups of coffee:
Peter Sejna – LW – 2003; Junior Lessard – RW – 2004; Marty Sertich – C – 2005; Ryan Duncan – LW – 2007; Matt Gilroy – D – 2009(signed a big bonus and never made any noise) ; Andy Miele – LW – 2011; Jack Connolly – C – 2012; Drew Leblanc– C – 2013 (Blackhawks) .
Of those who were drafted, clearly the best by far are Jack Eichel (2015 and taken 2nd overall by Buffalo), Johnny Gaudreau (2014 and taken 104th in Round 4), and Ryan Miller (2001 – 138th in Round 5).
I think the jury is probably still out on Jimmy Vesey (2016 and taken 66th overall in round 3 in the 2012 draft by Nashville), although he did have an OK season in NY.
The best of the remaining 5 since 2000 are probably two D – Jordan Leopold (2002 taken 44th in Round 2 by Anaheim) and Matt Carle (2006 – 47th in Round 2 by SJ), but neither will ever be confused with the stars of the game. The other 3 are eminently forgettable – Mike Motteau – a D taken 182nd in round 6 by NYR); Kevin Porter (2008 – a C taken 119th in round 4 by Phoenix); and Blake Geoffrion (2010 – LW taken 56th in Round 2 by Nashville).
Me, well, I would love to think Butcher could sign with Blackhawsk, walk in and provide an all around boost at the position. Keith Magnuson's signing did that but it was his fiery demeanor.
And I don't want to stifle Forsling's developmenatl chances.
Granted, in Sweden he was comfortable on the right side as a left hand shot and was always at the top of the umbrella on the PP.
I think Butcher in the Frozen Four looked instinctive, confident and fearless in every
aspect.
The NHL can be an intimidating place to start, and the three aspects above can flush themselves out of his game if the adjustment to NHL pro and pace hit him hard.
I would guess this means Glass is on his way to Indy. - DarthKane
So current Hog goalies are Berube, Glass, Tomkins, and Delia? So that's 2 in Rockford, 2 in Indy. Let them battle for who plays where. My guess is Berube and Tomkins stay up in Rockford to start the season.
So current Hog goalies are Berube, Glass, Tomkins, and Delia? So that's 2 in Rockford, 2 in Indy. Let them battle for who plays where. My guess is Berube and Tomkins stay up in Rockford to start the season. - AEL_Fox
If I had to guess Berube is the only one guaranteed to stick in Rockford. I'd say Tomkins is almost certainly bound for Indy. The Hogs have gone with 3 goalies in the past, but if they choose to go with two it will be close between Glass and Delia.
I have no confidence in the rough slug Stoner,
Sbica whose entire career has been disappointing (no matter what the Canucks say), and if the Lightning is cutting ties is any indication...remember, TB made a deal WITH Vegas so the Golden Knights would take him, NOT a series of fortunate events that made him available...
so it begs the question:
if the Lightning wanted to keep him, or did they did want to move on, except he has the FAT contract MORE than a HALF of a million MORE than Hammers!
Of the three, he fits nicely for Vegas over the short term.
All three make SO much more than the Blackhawks WANT to spend to fill in the bottom end.
And remember, all THREE are presently UFAs.
and you all can dog Rozy all you want, but I see an experienced vet with physicality, at $650,000, and those others, do that REALLY upgrade?
I have no confidence in the rough slug Stoner,
Sbica whose entire career has been disappointing (no matter what the Canucks say), and if the Lightning is cutting ties is any indication...remember, TB made a deal WITH Vegas so the Golden Knights would take him, NOT a series of fortunate events that made him available...
so it begs the question:
if the Lightning wanted to keep him, or did they did want to move on, except he has the FAT contract MORE than a HALF of a million MORE than Hammers!
Of the three, he fits nicely for Vegas over the short term.
All three make SO much more than the Blackhawks WANT to spend to fill in the bottom end.
And remember, all THREE are presently UFAs.
and you all can dog Rozy all you want, but I see an experienced vet with physicality, at $650,000, and those others, do that REALLY upgrade? - wiz1901
He is a dman that has lost a step when he was already two steps behind in a league built around speed now. He needs to be put out to the pasture
