why would a kid choose the college route if they aren't planning on finishing their degree?
- Codes1087

Likely because it's a much more worthwhile and vibrant atmosphere as opposed to riding a bus in the CHL. Moreover, most those kids get full-scholorships covering transport, housing, meals etc.

Oh and college girls, plenty of college girls.

why would a kid choose the college route if they aren't planning on finishing their degree?
- Codes1087

it is called "free education" something US colleges give their athletes. If somebody told you that you get a degree from Harvard for free just for playing hockey. Access to top trainers, nutrition, facilities would you say no I will go to OHL and ride the school bus to my games and workout in crappy gym with broken equipment?

CHL players only really play until 20 (as over-agers) and generally have signed their ELC (if the club thinks they are worth it). If they don't get signed, they re-enter, but are not privileged to sign with a specific club of their choice. I am not against the NCAA rule, I don't really like it, but its a rule and its not going to change. I am just simply countering Belchers claim of teams not actually trying to sign prolific college kids who wait to become free agents. It's not often you hear these kids not get offers from the club that drafted them prior to them becoming free agents after Aug 15.
- Codes1087

My point was that it is a right that isnt exclusive to NCAA players, as you claimed. Palmu is 19 and can refuse a Canuck contract and will end up a UFA as he would be too old to reenter the draft (only 18-20 year olds are eligible). Reentering the draft just adds another 2 years of waiting for free agency, which is essentially equivalent to an NCAA player

The big difference is that college kids have incentive to not sign, as they gain an extra year of education. That is likely the reason they have to wait until after graduation for free agency rights unlike the CHL grads

CHL players only really play until 20 (as over-agers) and generally have signed their ELC (if the club thinks they are worth it). If they don't get signed, they re-enter, but are not privileged to sign with a specific club of their choice. I am not against the NCAA rule, I don't really like it, but its a rule and its not going to change. I am just simply countering Belchers claim of teams not actually trying to sign prolific college kids who wait to become free agents. It's not often you hear these kids not get offers from the club that drafted them prior to them becoming free agents after Aug 15.
- Codes1087

Drafting them at 19 does solve some of it. The number of 18 year olds able to step into the NHL is shrinking anyway. This would make it harder for players to turn down the team that drafted them, as they would own rights to them for longer. like the NFL, there should be worries about kids out on the ice getting hit by full grown men IMO.

it is called "free education" something US colleges give their athletes. If somebody told you that you get a degree from Harvard for free just for playing hockey. Access to top trainers, nutrition, facilities would you say no I will go to OHL and ride the school bus to my games and workout in crappy gym with broken equipment?
- Linden_4_Capt

more or less useless education if you attend a college and don't finish with a degree lol. I am not arguing that NCAA is worse, because I completely understand the want/need for a player to want to get a education. The likelihood of becoming an NHL regular is soo soo slim, it's smart of them to want to have a degree in something as a backup. My point is, I don't think many kids go the college route with the intention of NOT completing their degree.

it is called "free education" something US colleges give their athletes. If somebody told you that you get a degree from Harvard for free just for playing hockey. Access to top trainers, nutrition, facilities would you say no I will go to OHL and ride the school bus to my games and workout in crappy gym with broken equipment?
- Linden_4_Capt

Not to mention the draw of the tournaments. Frozen four and beanpot are legit draws of talent these days, IMO much more competitive/higher skill than mem cup.

I think the draft eligibility year should be 19 period...regardless of AHL eligibility.

As far as NCAA players screwing their draft clubs if they choose to sign elsewhere that pick should be replaced with a pick of arguably equal value.
- LordHumungous

That would be a lot better for drafting NHL caliber players. Compensation sounds like a fair solution. Yes you lose development years on the prospect but at least get something to try again.

Likely because it's a much more worthwhile and vibrant atmosphere as opposed to riding a bus in the CHL. Moreover, most those kids get full-scholorships covering transport, housing, meals etc.

Oh and college girls, plenty of college girls.
- Whiskey-Tango

if I were a young kid with a promising career in hockey, there is no way I would take the CHL route over the college route. I am strictly looking at it from an education standpoint, and nothing else though.

more or less useless education if you attend a college and don't finish with a degree lol. I am not arguing that NCAA is worse, because I completely understand the want/need for a player to want to get a education. The likelihood of becoming an NHL regular is soo soo slim, it's smart of them to want to have a degree in something as a backup. My point is, I don't think many kids go the college route with the intention of NOT completing their degree.
- Codes1087

I agree with this. Especially if you are going to a top academic school. Now that the NCAA is producing so many NHLers, to get a degree(or most of one that you can finish in the summer) is something their families (rightfully) would push for. Think if it was your own kid? NCAA 100% if they are getting a full ride.

My point was that it is a right that isnt exclusive to NCAA players, as you claimed. Palmu is 19 and can refuse a Canuck contract and will end up a UFA as he would be too old to reenter the draft (only 18-20 year olds are eligible). Reentering the draft just adds another 2 years of waiting for free agency, which is essentially equivalent to an NCAA player

The big difference is that college kids have incentive to not sign, as they gain an extra year of education. That is likely the reason they have to wait until after graduation for free agency rights unlike the CHL grads
- WhiteLie

It's definitely not exclusive, but the terms are completely different between players drafted and committed to the NCAA or are in junior. The timelines in which they can sign ELC's are completely different. You just don't really hear of NHL teams not being able to come to terms on an ELC contract with a kid drafted from the CHL.

why would a kid choose the college route if they aren't planning on finishing their degree?
- Codes1087

Some consider 2 years as a degree (it isnt), others plan to get as many classes done as possible so they can finish after having left

more or less useless education if you attend a college and don't finish with a degree lol. I am not arguing that NCAA is worse, because I completely understand the want/need for a player to want to get a education. The likelihood of becoming an NHL regular is soo soo slim, it's smart of them to want to have a degree in something as a backup. My point is, I don't think many kids go the college route with the intention of NOT completing their degree.
- Codes1087

I agree with this. On the flip side majority of players from the NCAA don't even get drafted. But i am a GM and i see a kid tearing it up like Boeser, I will be sure to talk to him his family, his dog and even his barber to be sure on 2 things. 1. He is ok to play for Canucks. 2. He is willing to sign a pro contract before he finishes his degree.
if there is doubt in any of the 2 criteria i am not wasting my 1st round pick on him.
The possibility of a player signing with the same team as the team drafted them after they finish their degree is probably the same as a 3rd rounder making an NHL team.

I agree with this. Especially if you are going to a top academic school. Now that the NCAA is producing so many NHLers, to get a degree(or most of one that you can finish in the summer) is something their families (rightfully) would push for. Think if it was your own kid? NCAA 100% if they are getting a full ride.
- neem55

150%. We have a family friend here in Victoria and their two sons have both been drafted by NHL clubs. Nolan De Jong and Brenden De Jong. Nolan was drafted by Minnesota but is attending Michigan. Brenden was drafted by Carolina and is playing for the Portland Winterhawks. From the info that I have gathered, there is no way in hell I would ever let my kid choose the CHL route, billet close to the CHL team that drafted me, ride the bus for 10 hours a day, and not give post secondary education a thought. College route 100%

Some consider 2 years as a degree (it isnt), others plan to get as many classes done as possible so they can finish after having left
- WhiteLie

one could argue that ANY education is good education, which I completely understand, but employer's don't really care about classes that you have taken, more or less the degree that you carry lol.

I agree with this. On the flip side majority of players from the NCAA don't even get drafted. But i am a GM and i see a kid tearing it up like Boeser, I will be sure to talk to him his family, his dog and even his barber to be sure on 2 things. 1. He is ok to play for Canucks. 2. He is willing to sign a pro contract before he finishes his degree.
if there is doubt in any of the 2 criteria i am not wasting my 1st round pick on him.
The possibility of a player signing with the same team as the team drafted them after they finish their degree is probably the same as a 3rd rounder making an NHL team.
- Linden_4_Capt

kids generally get drafted and then commit to the NCAA. They usually play CHL/USHL/High School/European League and commit to NCAA prior to being drafted.

Thank you for the timely blog Carol. It was getting tiring reading about the Sword and the Hand. Bro Chill out.
As for the argument of NCAA players. I believe as a GM and a scout need to do their due diligence and interview college kids. Get a sense of whether they will sign in the 3 years or are they hell bent on completing their degree. If the prospect is dead set on completing their degree then don't waste your top 100 picks on them unless they are of Toews caliber. Be prepared to lose them should they choose not to sign. Benning took a huge risk with BB. I remember the interview BB had at the draft after he was selected and he said flat out that he is going to complete his degree. He was not signing till his education is over. I was surprised that he decided to leave a year early and sign. If the GM does not do their jobs properly then don't blame a player for doing what is in their right. if anything owners should dock the pay of the GM if a player selected by them decides not to sign and go to fa.
- Linden_4_Capt

Agreed, it really does get tiring, really good conversation going on today.

I noticed the Canucks are not one of your 10 most-improved teams!...
- stringerbell

The team didn't improve its the prospect talent pool

Anyone who knows about the Canucks or hockey would see they are making moves to develop prospects.

It's definitely not exclusive, but the terms are completely different between players drafted and committed to the NCAA or are in junior. The timelines in which they can sign ELC's are completely different. You just don't really hear of NHL teams not being able to come to terms on an ELC contract with a kid drafted from the CHL.
- Codes1087

Nope and part of that is because of the CHL, if you go that route you've pretty much committed to being a hockey player so you'd be dumb to not take an opportunity at the next level and an invite to NHL camp. Like I said, NCAA does reward you with a degree if you hold out, a CHL player holding out limits options on where he can play

The other side is that with your CIS scholarship, you can jump back and forth from pro leagues and school as you try to find your spot. NCAA's strict amateur rules make it an all or nothing situation. I am sure if they could fall under the same "slide" rules as CHLers, more NCAA guys would sign

NCAA/CHL talk aside,



Isn't it nice that we can have 5-10 people chime in, with different angles/views on one particular subject, stating different points and objectives, without it turning nasty and spiteful and malicious??

NCAA/CHL talk aside,



Isn't it nice that we can have 5-10 people chime in, with different angles/views on one particular subject, stating different points and objectives, without it turning nasty and spiteful and malicious??
- Codes1087

For some reason it feels like you have said "Candyman" a few too many times with this post...

For some reason it feels like you have said "Candyman" a few too many times with this post...
- Linden_4_Capt

I am not trying to trigger anyone with that post. I am just trying to simply say, maybe to a few people who have found themselves in the crosshairs of malicious stuff on here, that everyone is capable of having a constructive conversation/debate without it having to turn personal on these forums.

I am not trying to trigger anyone with that post. I am just trying to simply say, maybe to a few people who have found themselves in the crosshairs of malicious stuff on here, that everyone is capable of having a constructive conversation/debate without it having to turn personal on these forums.
- Codes1087

I agree. Sometimes this does get a little testy and disrespectful towards Carol, who puts hours of work in giving us something to talk about in these dog days of summer. I simply stop reading or posting and wait for the next set of somewhat intelligent conversation to start.

NCAA/CHL talk aside,



Isn't it nice that we can have 5-10 people chime in, with different angles/views on one particular subject, stating different points and objectives, without it turning nasty and spiteful and malicious??
- Codes1087

Nope and part of that is because of the CHL, if you go that route you've pretty much committed to being a hockey player so you'd be dumb to not take an opportunity at the next level and an invite to NHL camp. Like I said, NCAA does reward you with a degree if you hold out, a CHL player holding out limits options on where he can play

The other side is that with your CIS scholarship, you can jump back and forth from pro leagues and school as you try to find your spot. NCAA's strict amateur rules make it an all or nothing situation. I am sure if they could fall under the same "slide" rules as CHLers, more NCAA guys would sign
- WhiteLie

Problem will always be money, the NCAA wants to make as much money off of the athletes as possible without giving them much in return save for their 'free education'. If they allowed NCAA hockey players to sign ELCs and let them slide while they were in college, the other more major sports like football, baseball and basketball players would be demanding the same thing (which to be fair, would not be a bad thing all told). Not to mention the pro teams would be demanding to have more access to their players which the NCAA would hate.

I agree. Sometimes this does get a little testy and disrespectful towards Carol, who puts hours of work in giving us something to talk about in these dog days of summer. I simply stop reading or posting and wait for the next set of somewhat intelligent conversation to start.
- Linden_4_Capt

I'm in total agreement, but if people could not get caught up in the back and forth and continue on as you guys are, the other stuff should fall by the waist side.

Good discussion here today.