I think its as close to safe bet that Sprong/ZAR will not be starting the year with the pens (I think JR also confirmed this but can't recall). My bet is that Sprong gets recalled first and sticks (and even more likely if Horq/Hag are removed). I don't see ZAR sticking with the club this year.
- DeflatedPucks

Isn't that what you do when you have a loogie?

That's not the argument dum dum.
- j.boyd919

Yes it is, the argument is does he compare with McDavid in terms of overall speed and stick handling at high speed! That's the whole crux of the argument.

Riiiiiight.
- j.boyd919

I'm thinking this guy has never actually watched Crosby play.

I'm sure it was part of it, but Sprong was also super lost
- Victoro311

In all fairness, the entire team looked lost under MJ, including MJ himself

Yes it is, the argument is does he compare with McDavid in terms of overall speed and stick handling at high speed! That's the whole crux of the argument.
- mnhockeyguy

Speed CM>SC
Handles SC>CM
Overall SC=CM

Ugh, another thread hijacked by the rabbit hole. Just agree to disagree and move on. Nobody really cares.
- T-Train

I agree to disagree with you.

Speed CM>SC
Handles SC>CM
Overall SC=CM
- Feds91Stammer

Handles at top end speed CM>SC
But it is in no way a knock on Crosby.

I think there's a better chance ZAR sticks than Sprong. I highly doubt Sprong was able to refine his ability to function within a set system in the Q which was his biggest issue when he started the season here in 15. He was definitely talented but had no idea what he was doing.
- Victoro311

I agree with this. If anything, the MJ effect should have helped him (being overly structured, unless he was too young and inexperienced / immature to follow all of the dictates of the structure). I also think ZAR's game translates better to moving into his role sooner. And he is two years older.

Yes it is, the argument is does he compare with McDavid in terms of overall speed and stick handling at high speed! That's the whole crux of the argument.
- mnhockeyguy

The whole crux of the argument is stick handling at high speeds. Not straight line speed. High speeds include weaving in and out of defenders, mohawking around the net, catching passes foot to stick, hand eye coordination, strength on your feet (not getting pushed off the puck, knocked over easily, etc.). It's not JUST going straight and fast while handling the puck. Crosby has dangled thru 3-4 guys sometimes 5 more than enough times in his career to prove that he's one of, if not the best stick handlers at high speeds. It's almost like you don't want him play.

In all fairness, the entire team looked lost under MJ, including MJ himself
- mont23

I just think it was waaayyyy too structured and scripted - players weren't given the freedom to take advantage of opportunities so it just stifled the enthusiasm and competitiveness right out of them.

If were talking stick handling at high speed, Geno Malkin is being criminally overlooked here.

Geno is so tall and graceful that it looks deceiving but he can swoop around the offensive zone 3 times before sometime takes the puck off of him.

This is such a fruitless argument as there are so many variations of functional speed.

Lol

Wilson saying bozak is his favorite for 3c while ek says pens say absolutely not on bozak.

I'm so confused.

What is real? Am I even alive right now?
- pensfan024

He is the best 3rd line center out there. teams wAnt him. pens cant afford him by salary or by trade value. the leafs have zero interest in trading bozak, but because he is in the last year of a co tract evryone assumes those players are on the trade block.

that is true for rebuilding and garbage teams. the leafs are neither. moving bozak would be a hugeloss and create a massive hole in our lineup.

bozak = leaf for the next five years

The whole crux of the argument is stick handling at high speeds. Not straight line speed. High speeds include weaving in and out of defenders, mohawking around the net, catching passes foot to stick, hand eye coordination, strength on your feet (not getting pushed off the puck, knocked over easily, etc.). It's not JUST going straight and fast while handling the puck. Crosby has dangled thru 3-4 guys sometimes 5 more than enough times in his career to prove that he's one of, if not the best stick handlers at high speeds. It's almost like you don't want him play.
- j.boyd919

This was the original question:

McDavid's success seems largely based on his freakish speed. When he slows down in about 5 years, will he still be worth his huge contract?

A lot of guys can weave and dangle quickly including Ovi. That's not the question. It was in reference to his otherworldly skating speed. This was the response:

think it is safe to say that when Connor McDavid is 25 years old he will be the best player in the league. When he "slows" down he will still be one of the fastest players in the league instead of maybe the fastest player in NHL history to still maintain puck skills at high octane speed. He ain't "slowing down" until his thirties. Sidney Crosby is the only other comparable as far as speed/skill go this era and Sid still seems to be doing OK...

The question is is Crosby's speed comparable to McDavids overall? And is he the only one in this era. And the answer to both is no.

Handles at top end speed CM>SC
But it is in no way a knock on Crosby.
- mnhockeyguy

And Modano is at 148th on the list.

Hal Gill was the fastest skater I ever saw.

I agree with this. If anything, the MJ effect should have helped him (being overly structured, unless he was too young and inexperienced / immature to follow all of the dictates of the structure). I also think ZAR's game translates better to moving into his role sooner. And he is two years older.
- T-Train

DK's site has reported a number of times that the pens org loves ZAR. My gut says he will end up about as good as Jimmy Vesey but put up more points due to the Hornqvist-gene.

Hal Gill was the fastest skater I ever saw.
- acdc1206

Doug Murray

Hal Gill was the fastest skater I ever saw.
- acdc1206

2009 Gill vs. 2013 Scuderi ....one lap....who wins?

And Modano is at 148th on the list.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm not opposed to moving Hagelin, but I still think he's vastly undervalued by many around here.

I'd still choose to move Maatta.
- Rinosaur

I agree with this to an extent. Third line wingers are much easier to find than top 4 dmen. Maatta is still very young and has upside where Hags will only decline. We would need a replacement in place if we did move Maatta.

I don't even like Maatta that much, but I would much rather trade Hornqvist. We are loaded at RW, he has one year left, he is aging and his game will only decline, and ZAR looks like his in-house replacement.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Hornqvist, but I think there are many factors leading to him being the best option to move (not to mention he probably has the highest trade value of the three).

2009 Gill vs. 2013 Scuderi ....one lap....who wins?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'll let you know in about 12 hours

Hal Gill was the fastest skater I ever saw.
- acdc1206

Derian Hatcher was faster

Derian Hatcher was faster
- Feds91Stammer

Zubov

2009 Gill vs. 2013 Scuderi ....one lap....who wins?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

My money is on Hal Gill

He is the best 3rd line center out there. teams wAnt him. pens cant afford him by salary or by trade value. the leafs have zero interest in trading bozak, but because he is in the last year of a co tract evryone assumes those players are on the trade block.

that is true for rebuilding and garbage teams. the leafs are neither. moving bozak would be a hugeloss and create a massive hole in our lineup.

bozak = leaf for the next five years
- Njuice

Well, unless you consider Duchene a 3C.

But I tend to agree with you. I was originally thinking that Hornqvist for Bozak made too much sense, but Toronto is on the verge of being a legit contender so I don't think they weaken their center position.

This is why I think any deal for a 3C will come from a team like Jersey or Vegas. Center is too important a position for any playoff team or a team on the cusp to trade away for a non-center, unless it's for a much-needed dman, but I don't think teams are doing backflips over Maatta, Pouliot, Dumo, or whichever expendable dman the Pens have.