He will never be close to that
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Whether at wing or center, Jordan Staal is an apporopriate comparison for Sam

- TheSabresTaco

Maybe points but not 2 way play

Odds say he won't "blow up".

Guys of his draft status are who they are very early.

Most guys that take a few years when they start out on line 3 or 4, got benched a few times, and didnt get PP time until year 3 or 4.

Reinhart was given the opportunities right away. For 2 straight years, with Eichel.

What will be the difference in year 3 that would be the catalyst for blowing up?
- sbroads24

Sure, odds are he won't, but they're not that high to say "never".

Except when they're not.

Not always.

Ok, on a poop team that couldn't score goals.

Not being a poop team? And again, I'm not saying he will, just that saying he definitely won't doesn't make sense.

He also increased his points missing Jack for a quarter of the year. What if Jack was healthy the whole year? Who knows? Likely not 75 points, but I don't think 55-60 is out of the realm of possibility and that's a big jump over year 1, if he makes another jump like that in year 3 you're looking at a 65-70 point guy. That's really good. Even for a 2nd overall. Not as good as some, better than a lot.

Whether at wing or center, Jordan Staal is an apporopriate comparison for Sam
- sbroads24

Are we talking old staal ?

Sure, odds are he won't, but they're not that high to say "never".

Except when they're not.

Not always.

Ok, on a poop team that couldn't score goals.

Not being a poop team? And again, I'm not saying he will, just that saying he definitely won't doesn't make sense.

He also increased his points missing Jack for a quarter of the year. What if Jack was healthy the whole year? Who knows? Likely not 75 points, but I don't think 55-60 is out of the realm of possibility and that's a big jump over year 1, if he makes another jump like that in year 3 you're looking at a 65-70 point guy. That's really good. Even for a 2nd overall. Not as good as some, better than a lot.
- Wetbandit1

I don't either, but I wouldn't consider that blowing up either.

If he scores 30 goals or is neck and neck with Eichel in scoring (or close) I'd consider that blowing up

I think most people including myself are just mad that Sam is not even close to the best player in his draft class and he's just a good player and not core impact players like the rest

I mean we could be (frank)ed right now
- GERBE!!!75PTS

That's a dumb way of thinking.

We passed on one guy that's better that had any chance of being chosen there.

It's like saying Colorado is pissed they got Tanguay instead of Datsyuk. Tanguay's not as good as Datsyuk, so they obviously lost that draft, right? There will almost always be players taken later that are better than ones taken at the top. It's just how it works when you're drafting 18 year old kids who aren't even fully grown yet.

No reason he can't be Bergeron.
- TheSabresTaco

Apparently 60-65 points a year is the going rate for a HOFer

I don't either, but I wouldn't consider that blowing up either.

If he scores 30 goals or is neck and neck with Eichel in scoring (or close) I'd consider that blowing up
- sbroads24

Neither would I. I'm just saying 2 years of solid bumps puts him at 65-70 points and that's better than a lot of guys drafted 1st or 2nd(not counting defensemen) that are considered really good players.

Apparently 60-65 points a year is the going rate for a HOFer
- jcragcrumple

No when you are the best 2 way player of this NHL generation yes it does

FIFY

Almost no one gets PPG anymore. Only a few guys a year do it. It's like scoring 50 goals, it used to happen pretty frequently, now other than Ovechkin it rarely happens.
- Wetbandit1

Yeah it's terrible. 30 goals is the new 40.

No when you are the best 2 way player of this NHL generation yes it does
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Best 2 way player of the last generation (Datsyuk) blows him away

Bergeron: good offensive numbers + great defensively = very good

Datsyuk: great offense + great defense = great

One is HOF, one is very good

Best 2 way player of the last generation (Datsyuk) blows him away

Bergeron: good offensive numbers + great defensively = very good

Datsyuk: great offense + great defense = great

One is HOF, one is very good
- jcragcrumple

Many people think Bergeron has been a top 5 NHL forward for the last decade or so.

He's a great, great player.

Best 2 way player of the last generation (Datsyuk) blows him away

Bergeron: good offensive numbers + great defensively = very good

Datsyuk: great offense + great defense = great

One is HOF, one is very good
- jcragcrumple

http://www.thehockeynews....st-defensive-forward-ever

"The way fans interpret the game is changing, though. We live in the advanced stats era now. Players who generate and suppress shot attempts at elite levels, also known as possession drivers, are gaining new levels of notoriety, especially when the analytics crowd is a vocal minority, proficient with social media. Our resident fancy stats writer, Dominik Luszczyszyn, said Bergeron “is basically God to the nerds.” Analytics website corsica.hockey tracks possession numbers dating back to 2007-08 and, over that nine-season span, Bergeron ranks top-five in Corsi percentage among forwards with 3,000 or more minutes. Factoring in Corsi relative to teammates, Bergeron cracks the top four. He’s the only player to rank top-four in both categories. He’s neck and neck with Pavel Datsyuk for the unofficial title of the greatest possession player since people started tracking the stats."

Many people think Bergeron has been a top 5 NHL forward for the last decade or so.

He's a great, great player.
- sbroads24

53 points in 79 games even with his stellar 2 way play keeps him out of the "great" category imo

I really don't dislike Reinhart.

As a player, he's a fine top 6 guy. He just has high expecations. If he wqas picked in the 2nd round people would be thrilled with him
- sbroads24

Why does it matter so much where he got picked?

And why do u think he's done developing & getting better,
when it takes most guys 5 years or so to grow & become their best version?

I do get what you're saying...
but u haven't really (at least that I've seen) explain why Reinhart is already at 90% of his ceiling

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/patrice-bergeron-making-a-case-for-being-best-defensive-forward-ever

"The way fans interpret the game is changing, though. We live in the advanced stats era now. Players who generate and suppress shot attempts at elite levels, also known as possession drivers, are gaining new levels of notoriety, especially when the analytics crowd is a vocal minority, proficient with social media. Our resident fancy stats writer, Dominik Luszczyszyn, said Bergeron “is basically God to the nerds.” Analytics website corsica.hockey tracks possession numbers dating back to 2007-08 and, over that nine-season span, Bergeron ranks top-five in Corsi percentage among forwards with 3,000 or more minutes. Factoring in Corsi relative to teammates, Bergeron cracks the top four. He’s the only player to rank top-four in both categories. He’s neck and neck with Pavel Datsyuk for the unofficial title of the greatest possession player since people started tracking the stats."
- sbroads24

I'm not disparaging the guy but 2 years after his best season (06-07 70 points) datsyuk put up 97. They aren't in the same league

Many people think Bergeron has been a top 5 NHL forward for the last decade or so.

He's a great, great player.
- sbroads24

Bergeron will get into the Hall. The Canadian media will make sure of it. I'm on the fence as to whether he deserves it, but the Hall of Fame has been put to "Hall of Very Good" standards.

I fully admit to being a semi-troll, hence why I chose one of the greatest lines ever uttered by the legendary Buffalo Hard Hat as my user name.

But holy hell, over the past few years there have been some very childish middle-aged men on here.

And Der Kaiser, if you're reading this, you regressed from a humorous curmudgeon into a straight sot with nothing to add to any conversation and constant attacks on people who you act no different from.

Dude posts wrestling gifs and he hasn't shut up about it in months but a Hitler gif of him screaming Nahtzee in the style of Yahtzee is wonderful to him and even though I made a big stink of it, I'm not on here every day pissing an moaning about it or his habitual abuse, telling people to kill themselves or to die.

Thank god Maximum Signal hasn't been here this summer, I really might have punched myself in the face until I died if I had to read his childish ramblings, name dropping and bragging.

Most of us can twat out, but we keep it clean and fun, for the most part and sometimes we argue too much about stupid stuff (and are polarized on politics big time) but that's fine, no one's ever going to agree on anything past loving the Sabres. But some people come here just to be miserable and it is just plain sad.
- BeadyEyedDouche

Hoo Boy!

I miss the days when I had the target on my back.

I'm not disparaging the guy but 2 years after his best season (06-07 70 points) datsyuk put up 97. They aren't in the same league
- jcragcrumple

I don't think he's as good as Datsyuk. But I think he's the best defensive forward of this generation. Who's also very good on offense.

His line of Pastrnak and Marchand was the best shot producing line in the league, while also taking the hardest matchups most nights.

Bergeron will get into the Hall. The Canadian media will make sure of it. I'm on the fence as to whether he deserves it, but the Hall of Fame has been put to "Hall of Very Good" standards.
- buffalofan19

If that's the standard then yeah, he's in. At least they kept Osgood out this year. At his best, he was occasionally very good, mostly he was good, and sometimes not so good

Shots fired.

He's absolutely right. You act like a 15 year old.
- BeadyEyedDouche

I come on here to talk hockey, etc
Some others come on here just to "stir the pot" and just act like jerks
If that makes me the 15 year old,
then I guess that's your opinion

I'm not the one that just randomly lashes out at ppl though

Why does it matter so much where he got picked?

And why do u think he's done developing & getting better,
when it takes most guys 5 years or so to grow & become their best version?

I do get what you're saying...
but u haven't really (at least that I've seen) explain why Reinhart is already at 90% of his ceiling
- jdfitz77

Opportunity.

Most guys who are "developing" arent put right on the top line with guys like Eichel or O'Reilly. They start out on the 3rd and 4th, or get benched, or arent mentally ready for big minutes.

Reinhart has been on line 1 or 2, with #1 unit PP time since last year began.

I don't see what part of his game is going to translate into a lot more production. He's not going to just develope an excellent shot or learn how to dangle guys.

Many people think Bergeron has been a top 5 NHL forward for the last decade or so.

He's a great, great player.
- sbroads24

I really like Bergeron, but I dont if many consider him a top 5 forward. I would say Pavel and Bergeron are the same generation, and imo Pavel is the best defensive forward of the last 20 years

Opportunity.

Most guys who are "developing" arent put right on the top line with guys like Eichel or O'Reilly. They start out on the 3rd and 4th, or get benched, or arent mentally ready for big minutes.

Reinhart has been on line 1 or 2, with #1 unit PP time since last year began.

I don't see what part of his game is going to translate into a lot more production. He's not going to just develope an excellent shot or learn how to dangle guys.
- sbroads24

Players don't get better with experience?
And guys do work on their "skills" all the time
Not saying he's gonna turn into Ovechkin...
but I don't see any reason he can't continue to grow & get better
Especially if he's moved back to the position he's played his whole life
If he just stays at 45-50pts for another 2 years...
then that'll worry me

But calling it after only 2 years...
that's just way too quick to make an estimate about the guy's entire career
At least for me it is