Huge MAF fan, give him the ring of honor but I don't believe he's getting the HOF. Gonna have to go on some sort of run with Vegas, and that prolly aint happenin.

If Flower was a hooker, people would probably say he was a good hooker because he sucked a lot!??!



Edit: I'm not hating, I really like Flower & wish him all the very best, but it is pretty easy to make fun of the big fella.

Do the Pens have a team HOF? If so, he has a shot at getting in there...after Sid and Malkin.

Do the Pens have a team HOF? If so, he has a shot at getting in there...after Sid and Malkin.
- jmatchett383

Contracted to Baywatch still isn't he?

Do the Pens have a team HOF? If so, he has a shot at getting in there...after Sid and Malkin.
- jmatchett383

The ring of honor is the defacto HOF. He deserves to be there once he retires.

Gotta get one more shot in after the guy is out the door?

What's next, an in-depth analysis of how bad Craig Adams's golf game sucks?

"Greatness" ? Puhleeze. See the article,.
Greatness would have applied if he had played that way in the post season. He did not. While he added spectacular saves at times, he also let in shots that a 4 year old would stop. Unfortunately, he did that as often as the spectacular save and thats why he isn't "Great" and why we might not have another banner or two from the 2010-2015 time period
- Amanion

BAZINGA What I said

Not arguing, but they don't win the Cup this year without MAF. Big picture, he was good for the organization for a long time.
- Doogs

You do not know that they do NOT win a CUP this year without him They might have had someone else just as average as he was.

Huge MAF fan, give him the ring of honor but I don't believe he's getting the HOF. Gonna have to go on some sort of run with Vegas, and that prolly aint happenin.
- nelson911

If MAF ends up top 3 in wins, hard to do on vegas even if its for only 2 years, he will be HOF. Remember the HOF choices are made by old timers, many of whom still value +/-. He is a borderline HOF player but absolute ring of honor player.

Saying wins isn't a good stat to judge a goalie is fair, but by the same token the team has to take the blame for a good chunk of the problems... from the gm down to the coach to the d in front of MAF. There was also the implementation of the cap near years where Crosby/malkin/letang all needed deals. team had to think long term and sign those players to massive cap percentage deals with the hope cap would rise leaving the team unable to field depth.

oh and there is the thing with sidneys head too...

You do not know that they do NOT win a CUP this year without him They might have had someone else just as average as he was.
- holeinone

Touche

Huge MAF fan, give him the ring of honor but I don't believe he's getting the HOF. Gonna have to go on some sort of run with Vegas, and that prolly aint happenin.
- nelson911

I do believe he will be in HOF when his career is said and done (assuming he keeps playing as a starter and getting the wins for the remainder of his career), not first ballot but the (frank)er will get in

In my opinion, the position of goaltender is the toughest to fairly evaluate because his numbers are affected so much by the team in front of him. Many consider Brodeur the greatest goalie in NHL history. While this may be the case he also played behind some of the best defenses/systems in NHL history - defenses that were so good that opposing teams were lucky just to get shots and the few they got were typically easy saves for him. Put Fleury behind a defense like this for most of his career and his numbers go way up.

Fleury played on one of the worst Pens teams in team history in his rookie season and another bad team the year after the lockout. While the Pens were a playoff team every year since then in most cases they played a high risk offensive-oriented type game, especially under Bylsma, that tends to give up quality chances that forces the goalie to make tough saves. Even late in the 16-17 regular season and playoffs there were numerous instances of Crosby and Malkin being careless with the puck. The fact that he lasted 14 years behind such a system is in itself a case for him making the HOF (and I think he should).

Also, one thing to consider about Murray is that he only played 60% of the games last season due to injuries and such. He is obviously a great goaltender and the Pens' future but I would like to see how he does in the playoffs after playing 85%+ of the regular season games. One thing is for sure - if he only plays 60% of the games this season they probably will not make the playoffs. Niemi is really washed up at this point.

Fleury definitely has a shot at the HOF. He could finish in the top 5 all time in wins, played a huge part in 2 Cups with 3 total cups to his name. He is also the #1 goalie all time in shootouts, and that matters for the modern era.

You can't take away from his wins accomplishment because they scored a lot and then not give him credit for his save percentage being lower than some other goalies. While their offence has been great, defensively they have sucked pretty much his whole career. Only the last two years have they really committed as a team to playing two way hockey.

He still has work to do but he does have an outside shot of getting in.

Fleury has been the Pens starting goalie the entire time I've been sports conscious. Did he have his warts? Oh yeah. Do I think he's HoF worthy? Probably not, but he'll go down as one of my favorite Penguins of all time and will always be the third guy I remember when remembering the Pens teams of my adolescence. Thanks for the memories, Flower, and will be rooting for you in Vegas!

You do not know that they do NOT win a CUP this year without him They might have had someone else just as average as he was.
- holeinone

you don't know that pittsburgh would have won any more titles had they NOT had maf.

Love flower but hate to say as much as he made me laugh he made me cry. Be it playoffs or (cough cough) Canada world junior's. Good to see him go out part of something amazing. Cant believe people thought he was gonna keep the crease for the whole playoffs. Pfhew.

Had my bday last week and finally got some time to finish all acces!!!
Woooooo

I miss JS Aubin.

Counterpoint: You're wrong.

When he finishes his career top 2 or 3 in wins, with 3 or more rings, he will go to the HoF

you don't know that pittsburgh would have won any more titles had they NOT had maf.
- martox

MAF won only one CUP on his own and Also lost a Cup on his own Murray closed out 2 Cups and did not have a loss of a CUP.

Counterpoint: You're wrong.

When he finishes his career top 2 or 3 in wins, with 3 or more rings, he will go to the HoF
- ScienceJesus

Will NEVER happen

In my opinion, the position of goaltender is the toughest to fairly evaluate because his numbers are affected so much by the team in front of him. Many consider Brodeur the greatest goalie in NHL history. While this may be the case he also played behind some of the best defenses/systems in NHL history - defenses that were so good that opposing teams were lucky just to get shots and the few they got were typically easy saves for him. Put Fleury behind a defense like this for most of his career and his numbers go way up.

Fleury played on one of the worst Pens teams in team history in his rookie season and another bad team the year after the lockout. While the Pens were a playoff team every year since then in most cases they played a high risk offensive-oriented type game, especially under Bylsma, that tends to give up quality chances that forces the goalie to make tough saves. Even late in the 16-17 regular season and playoffs there were numerous instances of Crosby and Malkin being careless with the puck. The fact that he lasted 14 years behind such a system is in itself a case for him making the HOF (and I think he should).

Also, one thing to consider about Murray is that he only played 60% of the games last season due to injuries and such. He is obviously a great goaltender and the Pens' future but I would like to see how he does in the playoffs after playing 85%+ of the regular season games. One thing is for sure - if he only plays 60% of the games this season they probably will not make the playoffs. Niemi is really washed up at this point.
- PghPens668771

Really So you think that because MAF is gone the Pens will not make the playoffs You really need a reality check

Really So you think that because MAF is gone the Pens will not make the playoffs You really need a reality check
- holeinone

I didn't say that. Go back and re-read the last paragraph. I said that if Murray is out for 40% of the games this season they won't. The do not have a reliable backup anymore. Hopefully Murray is able to play at least 80% of the games this season, in which case I am certain that they will.

Will NEVER happen
- holeinone

If he gets to 450 wins, which he's only 75 away from, the only retired goalies above him with be Brodeur, Roy, Belfour, and Joseph. All except Cujo are in the HOF, and Fleury has the hardware over Cujo

Fleury has been the Pens starting goalie the entire time I've been sports conscious. Did he have his warts? Oh yeah. Do I think he's HoF worthy? Probably not, but he'll go down as one of my favorite Penguins of all time and will always be the third guy I remember when remembering the Pens teams of my adolescence. Thanks for the memories, Flower, and will be rooting for you in Vegas!
- Victoro311

young ass female dog

I didn't say that. Go back and re-read the last paragraph. I said that if Murray is out for 40% of the games this season they won't. The do not have a reliable backup anymore. Hopefully Murray is able to play at least 80% of the games this season, in which case I am certain that they will.
- PghPens668771

One day a little boy named Jarry will come in, winning the starting 'tender role, lead the penguins to a cup, and then JR will be forced to unceremoniously dump Murray's ass to seattle.

karma