yes adding some grit is nice ,and satisfies the want of some on here . Fact is the HAWKS won the west last year with a bunch of kid just finding their way rather easily ,no easy trick . Sure they were swept in the playoff ,But IMO they hit a perfect storm in the Preds who were healthy for the 1st time all year and playing by far their best hockey .Even after losing some of their top players during the tournament the Preds beat some very good teams ,not to mention Rinne was playing lights out . So to panic over a 4 game slump were we lost 2 games by 1 goal and OT seems a bit silly to me .And I hope this so called grit does not come at the expense of some of the fine rookies we were developing ..

You do realize that Kane played in 69 games when he got the 69 points (on pace for 82 points if he had played all 82 games) and 61 games when he got the 64 points (on pace for 86 points). So he has been at least a 1.00 PPG player the past four seasons.

Yes, two seasons ago he scored 106 points with Panarin on his opposite wing yet he "came back down to earth" last season with 89 points (both seasons in 82 games each). Points over the past four years: 82, 86, 106, 89.

Another factor when he scored 100+ points is that he had a quite a bit of motivation to put his game in overdrive (with or without Panarin) after a horrid off season filled with allegations, media scrutiny, etc.

More importantly, though, as others have explained, getting Toews back on track with the Saad re-acquisition helps the team have two scoring lines instead of one. Even if Kane played with two less than stellar linemates, the other team is still going to put some of their best defenders on the ice to neutralize him. That opponent is in trouble if the Toews like with Saad and Panik click as projected.
- AEL_Fox

You have valid points but really you have to admit the Kane/Panarin combo was arguably the best in the league. I don't think anyone watches as much nhl hockey as me and I mean all teams and in my opinion they were the most fun to watch and hardest to defend. Saad will help Toews get back in the groove so I am happy about that part but I still say Saad could have been had without having to trade Panarin and two years before he is an ufa so could have kept him at least another year.

You have valid points but really you have to admit the Kane/Panarin combo was arguably the best in the league. I don't think anyone watches as much nhl hockey as me...
- joegreif17

Quite a home bias happening with your comment. Some of us have NHL subscription too.
Are you stating their combo best on regular season? if so - Ovie-Oshie-Backstrom say hello... , Or Mathews/Mariner. or McDavid /Dreisatl).
Post season (Crossby or Malkin Kessel might have something to say about it)?
And in their own end line of Kane/Panarin/Anisimov was often quite helpless and could not get the puck out, so many other team fanes would have a claim at them being better overall 2 way lines.

You have valid points but really you have to admit the Kane/Panarin combo was arguably the best in the league. I don't think anyone watches as much nhl hockey as me and I mean all teams and in my opinion they were the most fun to watch and hardest to defend. Saad will help Toews get back in the groove so I am happy about that part but I still say Saad could have been had without having to trade Panarin and two years before he is an ufa so could have kept him at least another year.
- joegreif17

Two things that are tough to negate about the loss of Panarin are (1) the sheer entertainment value of either Panarin alone or the combo of Panarin with Kane (and Anisimov), and (2) the fact that Kane was outspoken about losing his linemate and rumored to have asked for a top-tier LW to play with him. Kane and Panarin were no doubt electrifying together.

So one perspective to take is making the decision on keeping that entertainment value at the expense of upgrading other parts of the lineup that need help. Could Panarin have been traded a year later or could the Hawks have re-acquired Saad by sending other assets not named Panarin the other way? Sure. But the factors that other posters have commented on are reasons why Bowman made the Saad-Panarin trade.

Two things that are tough to negate about the loss of Panarin are (1) the sheer entertainment value of either Panarin alone or the combo of Pa
narin with Kane (and Anisimov), and (2) the fact that Kane was outspoken about losing his linemate and rumored to have asked for a top-tier LW to play with him. Kane and Panarin were no doubt electrifying together.

So one perspective to take is making the decision on keeping that entertainment value at the expense of upgrading other parts of the lineup that need help. Could Panarin have been traded a year later or could the Hawks have re-acquired Saad by sending other assets not named Panarin the other way? Sure. But the factors that other posters have commented on are reasons why Bowman made the Saad-Panarin trade.
- AEL_Fox

I don't see anyone on the hawks who would have been sent who would've brought saad back in terms of value and cap hit.

Two things that are tough to negate about the loss of Panarin are (1) the sheer entertainment value of either Panarin alone or the combo of Panarin with Kane (and Anisimov), and (2) the fact that Kane was outspoken about losing his linemate and rumored to have asked for a top-tier LW to play with him. Kane and Panarin were no doubt electrifying together.

So one perspective to take is making the decision on keeping that entertainment value at the expense of upgrading other parts of the lineup that need help. Could Panarin have been traded a year later or could the Hawks have re-acquired Saad by sending other assets not named Panarin the other way? Sure. But the factors that other posters have commented on are reasons why Bowman made the Saad-Panarin trade.
- AEL_Fox

Don't forget the young goalie the HAWKS also obtained in that deal ,could be a real steal if he lives up to some of the hype .Also to me Panarin sealed his fate when he said he was tired in the playoffs ,but hoped on the 1st plane to Europe to play for mother Russia .Saad is far better teammate and player IMO

I don't see anyone on the hawks who would have been sent who would've brought saad back in terms of value and cap hit.
- Abadseed

Good point. The other highly paid Hawks are tough to trade and wouldn't garner a player of Saad's caliber. Not impossible but super duper tough.

Don't forget the young goalie the HAWKS also obtained in that deal ,could be a real steal if he lives up to some of the hype .Also to me Panarin sealed his fate when he said he was tired in the playoffs ,but hoped on the 1st plane to Europe to play for mother Russia .Saad is far better teammate and player IMO
- oldduffman

Putting aside the marquee players in the deal, the 2nd part of that trade is in fact Forsberg for Motte. They play different positions so tough to compare. Even if they did play the same position, we would have to look at impact of each player as well as the style they bring (or at least contribute to) and not stats alone as JJ suggested in his blog.

here's how I see the biggest questiion marks on this team--

Defense--I'm not sold on Murphy, I hope I'm wrong. Seabrook and Keith (esp Seabrook) getting loooong in the tooth. The bottom pairing could be a scary.

Centre--Hawks have one legit faceoff centerman. (Toews) AA can't win a faceoff to save his life.

Third and Fourth line are a mish-mash. Again, I'm not sure Bouma is an upgrade. Wingells would have been nice--3 years ago.

You gotta hope Crawford plays out of his mind. And, StanBo can smartly use Hossa's cap money. Preferably on a good young Dman. But, whio gives up good young Dman early in the season?

I just don't see how the Hossa money goes to anything more than a rental (EKane?) at the beginning of the season. Who's gonna trade a Dman 4,5 AND a faceoff C at that time of year?

I just don't see how the Hossa money goes to anything more than a rental (EKane?) at the beginning of the season. Who's gonna trade a Dman 4,5 AND a faceoff C at that time of year?
- airportjoe

only if there's a trade already in place and they're just waiting for the ltir money

JJ you mention a possible tvr kruger coming back maybe maybe not scenario from Carolina what would the hawks have to give up? I would be in favor in getting both back tvr solid 5th dman playing the right side and kruger secondary faceoff man behind towes. Agree on kero to me a ahl player extra forward type. Also with the future considerations from vegas got to be a d man mcnabb or merril maybe or not again. Or is there already a trade or trades in place when hossa goes on ltri and the have talk to these teams per say asking them to wait and the hawks would add a 6th or 7th round pick for said team or teams to hold off until the second day of season.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...gn-Will-Butcher/202/87095

I don't understand the whole LTIR thing for Hossa. The Hawks are supposedly waiting until Oct. 2 to use the designation. WHY? Supposedly they want "flexibility" during the season. But the time to get players is NOW. Everyone worth signing will be gone long before Opening Day.

Why not designate Hossa LTIR now, have that 5.25 million overage to work with and DO something with it. Sign Cody Franson, they could surely use a big, veteran RH D with positive possession numbers.

And... Detroit is having trouble signing their RFA Athanasiuo. There is a young, skilled, FAST center. How about using a chunk of the Hossa overage to offer sheet him? Think of all the upside to that. Deepen the Hawks down the middle, add speed, skill, youth - and give up no assets.

That guy can flat out fly and he's so unhappy with Detroit's offers he's threatening to go to the KHL. If he were your 3rd line C you could put Schmaltz on the wing and the top 9 gets very deep and skilled with Toews, Kane, Saad, Panik, Anisimov, Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman and Athanasiou in whatever combination.

Waiting until the season starts means any move to use Hossa's exception costs assets and it takes longer to assimilate whoever comes in.

IMPROVE the team NOW so you can spend training camp and pre season fitting the pieces together. What about that doesn't make sense?

I don't understand the whole LTIR thing for Hossa. The Hawks are supposedly waiting until Oct. 2 to use the designation. WHY? Supposedly they want "flexibility" during the season. But the time to get players is NOW. Everyone worth signing will be gone long before Opening Day.

Why not designate Hossa LTIR now, have that 5.25 million overage to work with and DO something with it. Sign Cody Franson, they could surely use a big, veteran RH D with positive possession numbers.

And... Detroit is having trouble signing their RFA Athanasiuo. There is a young, skilled, FAST center. How about using a chunk of the Hossa overage to offer sheet him? Think of all the upside to that. Deepen the Hawks down the middle, add speed, skill, youth - and give up no assets.

That guy can flat out fly and he's so unhappy with Detroit's offers he's threatening to go to the KHL. If he were your 3rd line C you could put Schmaltz on the wing and the top 9 gets very deep and skilled with Toews, Kane, Saad, Panik, Anisimov, Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman and Athanasiou in whatever combination.

Waiting until the season starts means any move to use Hossa's exception costs assets and it takes longer to assimilate whoever comes in.

IMPROVE the team NOW so you can spend training camp and pre season fitting the pieces together. What about that doesn't make sense?
- Korab

Because they can't Ltir hossa until that date

Not according to what I read. It's a choice.

Not according to what I read. It's a choice.
- Korab

No, I think you're born one way or the other.

Doesn't it have something to do with getting as close to the cap as you can (including Hossa's hit) before LTIRing him - thus maximizing the relief?

I'm not sure why they couldn't do it before the season, tho....

JJ you mention a possible tvr kruger coming back maybe maybe not scenario from Carolina what would the hawks have to give up? I would be in favor in getting both back tvr solid 5th dman playing the right side and kruger secondary faceoff man behind towes. Agree on kero to me a ahl player extra forward type. Also with the future considerations from vegas got to be a d man mcnabb or merril maybe or not again. Or is there already a trade or trades in place when hossa goes on ltri and the have talk to these teams per say asking them to wait and the hawks would add a 6th or 7th round pick for said team or teams to hold off until the second day of season.
- Scott1977

I've always been a TvR fan, but I don't see him coming back anytime soon. Carolina gave up a second round pick if I'm not mistaken, I don't see Stan matching or beating that. Unless, in the off chance, there is a prospect Francis is keen on that aren't key to the Hawks plan.

No, I think you're born one way or the other.

Doesn't it have something to do with getting as close to the cap as you can (including Hossa's hit) before LTIRing him - thus maximizing the relief?

I'm not sure why they couldn't do it before the season, tho....
- StLBravesFan

They could but Hosea on the LTIR now but it's more advantageous (cap wise) to wait until the season starts. I'm sure somebody who know the exact details could explain better than me.

I don't understand the whole LTIR thing for Hossa. The Hawks are supposedly waiting until Oct. 2 to use the designation. WHY? Supposedly they want "flexibility" during the season. But the time to get players is NOW. Everyone worth signing will be gone long before Opening Day.

Why not designate Hossa LTIR now, have that 5.25 million overage to work with and DO something with it. Sign Cody Franson, they could surely use a big, veteran RH D with positive possession numbers.

And... Detroit is having trouble signing their RFA Athanasiuo. There is a young, skilled, FAST center. How about using a chunk of the Hossa overage to offer sheet him? Think of all the upside to that. Deepen the Hawks down the middle, add speed, skill, youth - and give up no assets.

That guy can flat out fly and he's so unhappy with Detroit's offers he's threatening to go to the KHL. If he were your 3rd line C you could put Schmaltz on the wing and the top 9 gets very deep and skilled with Toews, Kane, Saad, Panik, Anisimov, Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman and Athanasiou in whatever combination.

Waiting until the season starts means any move to use Hossa's exception costs assets and it takes longer to assimilate whoever comes in.

IMPROVE the team NOW so you can spend training camp and pre season fitting the pieces together. What about that doesn't make sense?
- Korab

Aside from salary cap ramifications, by January you would have a much better sense what the team needs than you do today.

Not to mention, if I got my math straight, if you have 5 mill to work with in half a season, you can afford to trade for a 10m/yr player, if there's a deal for one that is.

Aside from salary cap ramifications, by January you would have a much better sense what the team needs than you do today.

Not to mention, if I got my math straight, if you have 5 mill to work with in half a season, you can afford to trade for a 10m/yr player, if there's a deal for one that is.
- busmaster

I don't think you "accrue" cap space like that with LTIR relief - it's just $5MM for the whole season - you can sign only $5MM in full-year cap.

I don't think you "accrue" cap space like that with LTIR relief - it's just $5MM for the whole season - you can sign only $5MM in full-year cap.
- StLBravesFan

I'm sure you're right...

I don't think you "accrue" cap space like that with LTIR relief - it's just $5MM for the whole season - you can sign only $5MM in full-year cap.
- StLBravesFan

Correct - no cap space is banked when a team has a player on LTIR if the team go over the cap with the LTIR allowance. Cap is calculated by day, so when a team isn't at the cap limit daily, they essentially accrue/bank that space. And since LTIR allows the team to go over the daily cap, then they are obviously no longer under so there is nothing for them to accrue.

I don't understand the whole LTIR thing for Hossa. The Hawks are supposedly waiting until Oct. 2 to use the designation. WHY? Supposedly they want "flexibility" during the season. But the time to get players is NOW. Everyone worth signing will be gone long before Opening Day.

Why not designate Hossa LTIR now, have that 5.25 million overage to work with and DO something with it. Sign Cody Franson, they could surely use a big, veteran RH D with positive possession numbers.

And... Detroit is having trouble signing their RFA Athanasiuo. There is a young, skilled, FAST center. How about using a chunk of the Hossa overage to offer sheet him? Think of all the upside to that. Deepen the Hawks down the middle, add speed, skill, youth - and give up no assets.

That guy can flat out fly and he's so unhappy with Detroit's offers he's threatening to go to the KHL. If he were your 3rd line C you could put Schmaltz on the wing and the top 9 gets very deep and skilled with Toews, Kane, Saad, Panik, Anisimov, Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman and Athanasiou in whatever combination.

Waiting until the season starts means any move to use Hossa's exception costs assets and it takes longer to assimilate whoever comes in.

IMPROVE the team NOW so you can spend training camp and pre season fitting the pieces together. What about that doesn't make sense?
- Korab

The Hawks don't have the pick to offer sheet Athanasiou at his value. The compensation for a contract between $1.9m and $3.9m is a 2nd round pick, and the Hawks don't have theirs in 2018 anymore. The Habs have the Hawks 2018 2nd round pick, and considering they are supposedly interested in Athanasiou themselves, they're not likely going to give it back. Anything lower than $1.9m and the Wings will match and they'll figure out the cap after.

The Hawks could offer sheet him for $3.9m+, but that costs a 1st+3rd - that and the actual amount/cap hit is well over his current value. That's almost $4m with only a 37 point projected season under his belt. He's worth more than the Wings likely want to give him, but he's not worth that yet. It'd be like giving Schmaltz $4m after last season. He's exactly the type of player that should get a two-year 'show me' bridge deal in the range of $2-2.5m at most.

Also, when the Hawks talk about wanting flexibility in-season, they're not just talking trade possibilities. If Hossa was put on LTIR in the summer, it pretty much locks their cap and it would be really difficult to make call-ups in case of injury or even audition of prospects. But in regards to trades, putting Hossa on LTIR now would make it extremely hard to make a trade in-season without it involving a rostered player - they would need the cap space.

I'd actually love Athanasiou on the Hawks because I see the potential - he's got middle top 6 potential, but it's hard to see how an offer sheet would work out. If they want him, they would probably need to trade for him.

Lasts years team(which was already heavily flawed) lost 2 of its top 4 forwards (Panarin and Hossa), it's 2nd best defenseman(Hammer), Kruger, and Darling.

Add to that another year of decline/wear and tear for 50, 19, 2, and 7 all with crippling contracts.

The return of Saad and the addition of a few new look 4th liners won't be NEARLY enough to save the Hawks downward trajectory.