Cat is likely on the Day 1 roster and eventually sent down to Rockford in Nov/Dec for a stint and then brought back up in Jan/Feb. Its Q's MO. See Schmaltz last year.
- glennjpawlak22

I see where your logic comes from. I am logically trying to figure out how you have enough larger size or tough enough hard working players who work the boards ...to play with Kane, Schmaltz, and ADB.

I also see that JJ mentioned how easy it was to defend the Blackhawks last year. So,it is training camp, you try a few things, but do not get carried away that each experiment is a lock to occur in the regular season. You can come up with a few reasons Q put Kane with Schmautz and ADB. Perhaps they are together again in one preseason game. How long does that last? I am not going to list the reasons - except what JJ said about easy to defend against us last season - because I think it is going off on a tangent and there is at least not yet any good reason to think Q actually plays the three small guys on the same line in the regular season.

Now IF ADB is in Chicago happenstance there comes a game wherin to generate some offense should we be dominated, perhaps PERHAPS Q might throw them out together but I doubt for a full game. You cannot play all the small guys at the same time in most sports, it just doesn't work ...at least not an entire game. If you can prove that it would work, please inform. Maybe I just don't get it.

Here is something else to consider: Making the #1 round Schmaltz out to be more than he is or will become. Just because he is put with two other talented guys who read plays and execute well.....does not mean we can now assume Scmaultz is as good as a 90 point scorer. He has yet to have a full season to produce at that clip. And do you suppose he stays healthy if he play a lot in a second line role? How physical is his game going to be. How will he handle it.

I like the ability of Kane, Schmaltz, and ADB. I do not want to get overly excited, not yet anyway. Right now in our excitement of seeing an offensive juggernaut we put the cart in front of the horse. Let us wait until/IF BOTH Schmaltz and ADB have proven more than they have shown to date.

Mark Laz. quoted Q as saying: "Hawks dont play on the first night of the season, believes they can put Hossa on LTIR before Game 1".

Is that correct, and if so, how does that affect our roster for game one?

Thoughts???

You have to wonder if WINGER Matt Duchene ends up getting much more than a ahlers sandwiched around a serviceable FORWARD and not a solid defender.
I am gonna say it has to be tough when you are players on a team you know aren't going anywhere...and when that realization comes early, well, I am sure it is simply tough sledding for all,
Not just Duchene.
But I think that Colorado Rookie GM feels strongly the kid isn't gonna fit as a centre anytime soon and they are not gonna open contract discussions to re-up for more than the overpayment already in place.
Do teams still see him as a centre with "warts?" Sure, but not knowing if the kid is gonna agree to a team friendly new deal makes teams apprehensive, especially to burn young up trending defenders.
Columbus' Ryan Murray is not enough, so
Maybe Joe Sakic settles and saves face by taking an accomplished lesser light young or older vet and a slew of Potential NHLers.
That could happen.
Is Duchene a nice fit for Anisimov and young defenders from Rockford and picks? That is a tough swallow for Joe...similar to that hipcheck Chris Chelios put on him when Quebec came to the old barn where he did a cartwheel in sync to me yelling, Nordiques afraid of the boardeeeeks."
Some of my proud moments,when Chelly never would have agreed to be a wing. Still have a bad taste about that turnaround, but not the one Sackic took with that check.

Hawks only have to worry about the next two years. There will be a strike after that and a far different CBA after that. Then it will be rebuild time.

Go for it now and sign Duchene. Do what it takes to sign him short of any of the core players. Protect Hartman, Wingles, Rutta and Kempny. All other roster players and prospects should be in play.

Im not sold on ANY of the organizational depth amounting to much at all any time soon, and these next two seasons are going to be the end of the line before they blow it up.

Mark Laz. quoted Q as saying: "Hawks dont play on the first night of the season, believes they can put Hossa on LTIR before Game 1".

Is that correct, and if so, how does that affect our roster for game one?

Thoughts???
- onehundredlevel

Yes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Hawks only have to worry about the next two years. There will be a strike after that and a far different CBA after that. Then it will be rebuild time.

Go for it now and sign Duchene. Do what it takes to sign him short of any of the core players. Protect Hartman, Wingles, Rutta and Kempny. All other roster players and prospects should be in play.

Im not sold on ANY of the organizational depth amounting to much at all any time soon, and these next two seasons are going to be the end of the line before they blow it up.
- Return of the Roar

Do you recall t -shirts maybe 15 years ago (?) that had the saying, "Life is hockey," or "Life is fishing?"

Life without hockey sucks.

And, trading Duchene for less than a young dman with NHL experience is BS. You have to do whatever you can for Duchene into a productive season. Remember Pullly once said about trading JR, nobody gonna pull my chain. Dang it Pully, what a line.

But Sakic should rest his GM tenure on this. He needs to trade both Duchene and if it takes Landeskog, too, in another deal to re- shape the roster. I would hate to trade both, but what must he pay to get one dman and maybe a good prospect? Include other parts, even overpay because your franchise is not going to turn around until your blue line crew improves. You have goaltending, probably enough firepower to be competitive if you trade away two top forwards.

Or Mr Salic you can buckle and give in with a poor trade. Then be fired later during the season. Your call

So Pokke doesn't make team then he is subject to waivers? And he is lost for nothing. Unless blogger Savvy wants him to complement Leddy on his fantasy team. Just kidding.

You have to wonder if WINGER Matt Duchene ends up getting much more than a ahlers sandwiched around a serviceable FORWARD and not a solid defender.
I am gonna say it has to be tough when you are players on a team you know aren't going anywhere...and when that realization comes early, well, I am sure it is simply tough sledding for all,
Not just Duchene.
But I think that Colorado Rookie GM feels strongly the kid isn't gonna fit as a centre anytime soon and they are not gonna open contract discussions to re-up for more than the overpayment already in place.
Do teams still see him as a centre with "warts?" Sure, but not knowing if the kid is gonna agree to a team friendly new deal makes teams apprehensive, especially to burn young up trending defenders.
Columbus' Ryan Murray is not enough, so
Maybe Joe Sakic settles and saves face by taking an accomplished lesser light young or older vet and a slew of Potential NHLers.
That could happen.
Is Duchene a nice fit for Anisimov and young defenders from Rockford and picks? That is a tough swallow for Joe...similar to that hipcheck Chris Chelios put on him when Quebec came to the old barn where he did a cartwheel in sync to me yelling, Nordiques afraid of the boardeeeeks."
Some of my proud moments,when Chelly never would have agreed to be a wing. Still have a bad taste about that turnaround, but not the one Sackic took with that check.
- wiz1901

Fine, play Duch at LW 5-on-5 but at 1C on the PK, and as a secondary FO option on the power play. He's a 55%+ guy.

Guess what, it's then a better team in all three roles than it is today—a couple of them being ACUTE areas of need on this team in terms of winning actual NHL hockey games and not training camp shinny.

Question: who was the absolute worst player in the entire NHL as measured by plus/minus last year? Be careful what you wish for.
- Savoy

5 of the 11 "worst" guys in +/- played for Colorado last year.

Aside from being a fairly useless stat, it is highly influenced by overall team quality (or lack thereof).

Dunno, I'll take the recommendation of a guy actually paid to play in the NHL, especially one with 3 Cups, a Smythe, a Selke, etc., over "he had horrible plus minus last year."

And yeah, after the Olympics last year, Toews went to the brass and said "get that kid to Chicago if you can."

Then again, the "quitter" narrative is probably more silly. FWIW. Oh wait, it's just trolling anyway.

Duchene had a career year leading the entire league in plus/minus. Oh wait, it was just minus, I guess there wasn't much plus to it. He was on the ice for HOW MANY enemy goals??? WOW!
- Savoy

So, aside from something just taken completely out of context, what is your scouting on Duchene's actual game?

I mean the tendencies, weaknesses, (strengths?) etc that made him so horrible last year. And such a bad fit for the Hawks.

I mean, gee, why does Team Canada hire Mike Babcock to coach, and put a guy like Duchene on his team, when they could just read these posts and about his "horrible" plus minus?

Or are you still burning up over the fact they traded Panarin? Cuz you said that wasn't gonna happen, too.

Duchene and 200ft game? He has been on the ice for more goals, shots, etc against than he provides. And the adage that is on a crappy team only goes so far. He has played and does play with some pretty good players. At some point, its time to look at maybe he is a huge reason for those numbers.

The cost to acquire him, both for this season and next, will end up costing the Hawks more loses than wins. He is a guy who might be a nice complimentary player but he not shown any indication that he can be a crucial guy. IMO, the Hawks would be giving up assets for him to be exactly that.

Great, he wins FOs. That fact is not worth the assets he would cost. IMO.
- TTtime

You're entitled to your opinion.

Just telling you, a LOT of guys on Colorado were on the ice for a LOT of goals against. The guy plays a lot, as I recall, on the PK. That has something to do with goals and shots against when he's on the ice.

if the gist of your post is he's a faceoff specialist and nothing more, sorry, I can't help you.

Look at the offers that have been made for him by people actually paid to judge hockey players.

But yeah, I mean, how could we possibly see him as an upgrade over John Hayden or Patrick Sharp? BAD PLUS MINUS!!!!

Let me make my last comment on this whole argument.

What I hear:

Matt Duchene is a quitter.

He's terrible defensively.

He can't help the Hawks versus Artem Anisimov or our annual boatload of can't miss prospects.

My answer:

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.

But if I'm understanding correctly you haven't heard anything new on this recently right?
- walleyeb1

No I haven't, but I have heard they've talked off and on about him for several months. The Hawks like him a lot (as do a lot of teams) even though he apparently clearly sucks.

Let me make my last comment on this whole argument.

What I hear:

Matt Duchene is a quitter.

He's terrible defensively.

He can't help the Hawks versus Artem Anisimov or our annual boatload of can't miss prospects.

My answer:

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.


- John Jaeckel

Do you think Stan is really trying to land him??

EK did. So strong odds is its not happening.
- TTtime

When upwards of ten teams have bid, no the Hawks doing the deal is unlikely. That's the real metric.

Do you think Stan is really trying to land him??
- z1990z

Oh, I think he'd like to. I know he's made offers in the last several months (this year)

You're entitled to your opinion.

Just telling you, a LOT of guys on Colorado were on the ice for a LOT of goals against. The guy plays a lot, as I recall, on the PK. That has something to do with goals and shots against when he's on the ice.

if the gist of your post is he's a faceoff specialist and nothing more, sorry, I can't help you.

Look at the offers that have been made for him by people actually paid to judge hockey players.

But yeah, I mean, how could we possibly see him as an upgrade over John Hayden or Patrick Sharp? BAD PLUS MINUS!!!!
- John Jaeckel

JJ, do you have a sense of what realistic package the Hawks could put together (one which they would be willing to do) to get Dutch? It seems Sakic has overplayed his hand a bit, and maybe there's a deal to be struck.

That is seriously overvaluing Duchene and gutting the farm system of guys that look like they are NHL level players (eventually).
- RickJ

Except Jurco.

Fine, play Duch at LW 5-on-5 but at 1C on the PK, and as a secondary FO option on the power play. He's a 55%+ guy.

Guess what, it's then a better team in all three roles than it is today—a couple of them being ACUTE areas of need on this team in terms of winning actual NHL hockey games and not training camp shinny.
- John Jaeckel

I believe this team is close to either being about .500 and struggling to make playoffs, or in danger of loosing most each night. One key injury away. All you have to do is shut down, shadow Kane. It forces the remainder of the team to beat you. It forces BOTH Q AND BOWMAN to do something.

A team that was easy to defend last season is pretending Schmaltz is going to step up. Step up to a nasty elbow and be out of line up. He has to prove he is good enough to withstand the rigors of regular top line duty. If you bring in ADB too soon it is a sign that you are panicking, you have no faith in your team.

Adding by changing the make up of your team with the Panarin deal was a preresiquite to remain a competitive team. Adding by making the Phoenix trade was preresiquite. They hope an offensively capable yet descent two way defender can fill a spot of a one dimensional (albeit) good man. Dauphin....is a bonus if he works out eventually on a lower line. You like his sort of style but you can find his type other ways as well.

The league is better, teams are deeper. In our conference it is going to be difficult to finish ahead of Dallas and Minny. Chicago, StLouis and San Jose might be fighting for the last spot.

You expect a few young guys probably work out. But how good will each become. You have two bonafide, legit top defenseman then you say prayers. Recall that baseball saying, "Spahn and Sain then two days of rain?" So after Keith and Seabrook leave the ice then what. They aren't putting them as a pair, right.

Bowman and Q better give some young guys an opportunity, and if it takes all the way to the end of opportunities - like playing the game "horse" in basketball - - - then so be it. Too many veterans get plugged in and this team will be spinning its wheels. Some young guys need to step up.


I think Murphy will be ok. Franson is third pair material and pp. You have to trade something to get something. I like Samuelson here but you are betting Kempny and another prospect fills in on defense. Asking a lot. Not saying it won't happen. And. I am curious if Ruuta is actually ahead of Forsling. Kampf, Highmore, ADB .....rookies usually take a while to blossom, if those guys even are here by mid season then be happy.

JJ, do you have a sense of what realistic package the Hawks could put together (one which they would be willing to do) to get Dutch? It seems Sakic has overplayed his hand a bit, and maybe there's a deal to be struck.
- Hank_Greenberg

I don't. Sakic has overplayed his hand though and is reaching that point past diminishing returns where he has to deal him.

Sakic wants projectable prospects.

My OPINION is Duchene is worth it for a team that has to really focus on the next two years as far as winning.

I know there are some convinced DeBrincat is going to be a star in the NHL this year. Well, I'll take that action. Can't wait to see Q's head explode when he fails to get back or gets pushed off pucks all night in real games (which would happen).

You're trading futures for a guy who comes in and fills some needs (which this team has, don't kid yourself) and definitely makes you a better team for the next couple of years.

How much is that worth to Bowman, how much does Sakic want? I don't know and it's a tough call that those kids of Jobs (NHL GMs) sometimes ride on.

Schmaltz interviewed today. Talked about getting stronger and more explosive. They only showed shoulders up, but he looks bigger in the shoulders.

I don't. Sakic has overplayed his hand though and is reaching that point past diminishing returns where he has to deal him.

Sakic wants projectable prospects.

My OPINION is Duchene is worth it for a team that has to really focus on the next two years as far as winning.

I know there are some convinced DeBrincat is going to be a star in the NHL this year. Well, I'll take that action. Can't wait to see Q's head explode when he fails to get back or gets pushed off pucks all night in real games (which would happen).

You're trading futures for a guy who comes in and fills some needs (which this team has, don't kid yourself) and definitely makes you a better team for the next couple of years.

How much is that worth to Bowman, how much does Sakic want? I don't know and it's a tough call that those kids of Jobs (NHL GMs) sometimes ride on.
- John Jaeckel

Debrincat + Pick or Debrincat + AHL Dman, sure thing. However, I think both Q and Bowman are VERY high on Schmaltz and Hartman being Middle 6 NHL players this year. I personally do not move either Hartman or Schmaltz for Duchene, but Debrincat is not a dealbreaker for me until he shows he can do it in the NHL (which both Hartman and Schmaltz have). Q was GUSHING over Schmaltz in his interview yesterday, which means a lot coming from the, "he was OK" coach.

Let me make my last comment on this whole argument.

What I hear:

Matt Duchene is a quitter.

He's terrible defensively.

He can't help the Hawks versus Artem Anisimov or our annual boatload of can't miss prospects.

My answer:

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.


- John Jaeckel

Inserting Duchene into the lineup without any other changes would make the team better, no doubt about it. But making a move like that is not realistic.

As with any deal it's not just about the benefits, it's about the cost. Not all deals work out like Panik or Sharp (the first time around), there is usually a cost to every deal.

So it all comes down to figuring out what a fair price for Duchene would be. Giving a combination of a quality NHLer, promising young NHLer, solid prospect and a decent pick would likely be too much. If Stan can acquire Duchene for a decent price then I say go for it, but he's not a guy you mortgage the future for.

I thought +\- was only at even strength. PP goals would not count. Is duchene better then AA. Yes, But considering what Salic sounds like he has turned down. U are talking Hartman forsiling debrinct Hossa and a 1st and they would have to retain.

Debrincat + Pick or Debrincat + AHL Dman, sure thing. However, I think both Q and Bowman are VERY high on Schmaltz and Hartman being Middle 6 NHL players this year. I personally do not move either Hartman or Schmaltz for Duchene, but Debrincat is not a dealbreaker for me until he shows he can do it in the NHL (which both Hartman and Schmaltz have). Q was GUSHING over Schmaltz in his interview yesterday, which means a lot coming from the, "he was OK" coach.
- EnzoD

Well maybe some of us are too critical of Schmaltz. All WE can really say is, let's see how it pans out.

As far as Q being non stoic.....well with all the questions and the pressure caused by the Dineen conversation.....do not kid yourself there is more questions and not a lot of faith - oh there is a modicum of faith to be sure - you just are not starting the season on an adrenaline rush of great expectations. We could have a playoff team which squeezes in, but forget about replicating last season's point total

If you think Toews is going to be 100% for the entire next couple of years, too, then you still believe in the tooth fairy.