I think what people miss is that Corsi is just one of dozens of stats that are looked at.

It's put on some pedestal as like the only thing analytics people measure, when that's entirely false.

Any 1 stat is a terrible way to rank or judge a player.

It's like saying Evander Kane is better than Eichel because Kane had 28 goals and Eichel had 23, while ignoring assists, shots etc. It's a peice to the puzzle. Not the answer to anything.
- sbroads24

I kind of agree
The thing is, goals for example are a tangible thing that directly decides wins & losses
Shots on goal have degrees of difficulty & can be the result of factors that have nothing to do with a particular player

So while I agree that I need to judge someone on goals (and other stats, like assists as u point out)...
But I don’t feel Corsi is relevant bc it’s flawed

Seriously though, my problem with Gorges is that, honestly, you'll get 80% respectable, safe play and 20% blunders due to lack of speed. But you're guaranteed to never get an exceptional play, or even a goal for that matter. It's the ultimate safe play to put him in the lineup, but the coach can frame it as a move for intangibles and leadership and accountability
- jcragcrumple

Fair enough.

Seems he has been put out there most of the time vs the better opposition. So his offense takes a beating . He isn't good enough to take advantage of a average line that came out before his change due to being gased. But yeah I can see it .

I kind of agree
The thing is, goals for example are a tangible thing that directly decides wins & losses
Shots on goal have degrees of difficulty & can be the result of factors that have nothing to do with a particular player

So while I agree that I need to judge someone on goals (and other stats, like assists as u point out)...
But I don’t feel Corsi is relevant bc it’s flawed
- jdfitz77

Sure, but just like shots, not every goal is a direct result of skill.

Difference is with shots, you have a large sample to form an opinion on.

if Eichel has 6 shots on goal, and the goalie makes all 6 saves, but flubs the one shot Seth Griffith throws on net, you wouldn't convince me Griffith has more skill, because odds are, if Eichel is shooting 5/6 shots a game, he's going to get more favorable results over a longer period of time

Sure, but just like shots, not every goal is a direct result of skill.

Difference is with shots, you have a large sample to form an opinion on.

if Eichel has 6 shots on goal, and the goalie makes all 6 saves, but flubs the one shot Seth Griffith throws on net, you wouldn't convince me Griffith has more skill, because odds are, if Eichel is shooting 5/6 shots a game, he's going to get more favorable results over a longer period of time
- sbroads24

But how often does it play out over the course of a season that a Griffith will outscore an Eichel?
The skill will show through in that stat almost always
However...
shots generally have nothing to do with guys on the opposite half of the ice

And while a guy may still get REWARDED for an easy goal,
which happens rarely...
that’s different than a guy being PUNISHED for a shot on net he had nothing to do with,
which happens often

Seriously though, my problem with Gorges is that, honestly, you'll get 80% respectable, safe play and 20% blunders due to lack of speed. But you're guaranteed to never get an exceptional play, or even a goal for that matter. It's the ultimate safe play to put him in the lineup, but the coach can frame it as a move for intangibles and leadership and accountability
- jcragcrumple

I think that is a fair assessment. That is actually pretty much in line with what I was thinking. But given the options that are available for this team, that steady 80% may be something this coaching staff likes as most of the players have potential but can do bone headed things at a higher rate, their ceiling is higher sure, but they're less predictable. I think that's something we overlook a lot. Sometimes you need that anchor to calm people down. Again, eye test only but when guys like Biron and Hamilton are saying that the D are noticeably calmer out there and he's communicating more than the other players did. I think in a bottom pairing role, he's ok, for this year and this year only.

But I don't want to bag on the guy totally all the time.

But how often does it play out over the course of a season that a Griffith will outscore an Eichel?
The skill will show through in that stat almost always
However...
shots generally have nothing to do with guys on the opposite half of the ice

And while a guy may still get REWARDED for an easy goal...
that’s different than a guy being PUNISHED for a shot on net he had nothing to do with
- jdfitz77

Agreed, it's different, but like with Gorges, at what point is it not random.

In San Jose he played on a bottom pair, in Montreal he played on the top two pairs, in Buffalo he's flucuated. It's been 10 years where Gorges has played all over the lineup, with different teammates, different roles, different competition....Yet he's ALWAYS on the wrong side of the shot differential. At some point it's not coincidence, whether any or none of the shots are his "fault".

Not to mention, a lot of shots are his fault, especially when he throws it off the boards and another team carries it right back in and is on the attack, which happens every single game

Girls don't exist in my life.
- GERBE!!!75PTS

it's because you take too long in the sub lie

it's because you take too long in the sub lie
- homiedclown

He is always in the wrong line .

it's because you take too long in the sub lie
- homiedclown

I can make a much longer list.

it's because you take too long in the sub lie
- homiedclown

that's true

I can make a much longer list.
- Der Kaiser

i have time any tips to get a girl is always good

i have time any tips to get a girl is always good
- GERBE!!!75PTS

I have to work in the morning .

(frank)ing Gerbe let his girlfriend go on his commissioner account and what did she do? Ban me from the league. Great
- chilliard77

I am so (frank)ing glad I dropped out. What a cluster (frank).

i have time any tips to get a girl is always good
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Don't wear their clothes in public.
If they ask you behind closed doors. your disgression

He did. Apparently she needed to use my account to put Taylor in his place
- chilliard77

That makes no sense whatsoever.

That makes no sense whatsoever.
- Wetbandit1

Chill let gerbs stud muffin use his account to put some dirk in its place ?

Agreed, it's different, but like with Gorges, at what point is it not random.

In San Jose he played on a bottom pair, in Montreal he played on the top two pairs, in Buffalo he's flucuated. It's been 10 years where Gorges has played all over the lineup, with different teammates, different roles, different competition....Yet he's ALWAYS on the wrong side of the shot differential. At some point it's not coincidence, whether any or none of the shots are his "fault".

Not to mention, a lot of shots are his fault, especially when he throws it off the boards and another team carries it right back in and is on the attack, which happens every single game
- sbroads24

When u have year after year of it...
then I’m more willing to admit there’s a correlation to play
Just like how Shattenkirk is always the worst (-) player on his team

Gorges isn’t gonna be a guy who creates shots, or pushes play up the ice though
So while it makes sense that with his style of play he will get outshot,
It also doesn’t necessarily mean he’s making the mistakes in his own end that lead to goals

And just to be clear...
none of this is advocating for or against Gorges
I just don’t like Corsi as a measure of anyone’s play

Could come into play that reason is more ice time and vs better players . Can you really judge from it ?
- cabin

That's where ice time comes into it. If a guy plays 12 minutes a night, then yes, absolutely that is an argument you can make, but if he plays 20, not really, it all comes out in the wash because if you play that much, generally speaking you'll be playing against most of the other team, but you also have to pay attention to zone starts too, if you're at 55% D-zone, you're going to have more shots against than for. It's just the way that stat works.

It's extremely complicated and when people boil it down to one stat, Corsi, they're just pushing something that the other data doesn't support. Most of the time anyway.

When u have year after year of it...
then I’m more willing to admit there’s a correlation to play
Just like how Shattenkirk is always the worst (-) player on his team

Gorges isn’t gonna be a guy who creates shots, or pushes play up the ice though
So while it makes sense that with his style of play he will get outshot,
It also doesn’t necessarily mean he’s making the mistakes in his own end that lead to goals

And just to be clear...
none of this is advocating for or against Gorges
I just don’t like Corsi as a measure of anyone’s play
- jdfitz77

Wasn't Corsi invented for people who missed the game or don't follow a team with their eyes ?

That's where ice time comes into it. If a guy plays 12 minutes a night, then yes, absolutely that is an argument you can make, but if he plays 20, not really, it all comes out in the wash because if you play that much, generally speaking you'll be playing against most of the other team, but you also have to pay attention to zone starts too, if you're at 55% D-zone, you're going to have more shots against than for. It's just the way that stat works.

It's extremely complicated and when people boil it down to one stat, Corsi, they're just pushing something that the other data doesn't support. Most of the time anyway.
- Wetbandit1

Good points and I agree.

Chill let gerbs stud muffin use his account to put some dirk in its place ?
- cabin

Yeah, you weren't here for the terrible (frank) ups.

The league started yesterday because instead of taking 30 seconds to do something he figured he'd take the easy way out, and that ended up taking hours and missing the first week and a half of the season. Then when I offered my help, because I actually know what I'm doing, he first ignored me, then lied when I said I offered, then said he didn't need help. And now he names his GF as co-commish.




Like I said. Cluster(frank).

Yeah, you weren't here for the terrible (frank) ups.

The league started yesterday because instead of taking 30 seconds to do something he figured he'd take the easy way out, and that ended up taking hours and missing the first week and a half of the season. Then when I offered my help, because I actually know what I'm doing, he first ignored me, then lied when I said I offered, then said he didn't need help. And now he names his GF as co-commish.




Like I said. Cluster(frank).
- Wetbandit1

Glad I stayed away.

Glad I stayed away.
- cabin

The worst.

Glad I stayed away.
- cabin

blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah
- homiedclown