I don't watch them nearly as much as I used to (damn kids). But Hagelin doesn't offer the same tools that Bonino did. He's fast and...well, he's fast. He has a role, but he was under contract and Bonino wasn't. Either way, everyone knew changes were coming to them this past offseason.
- jmatchett383

The last time the Pens won the cup before this back to back run, they had 3 stud centers as well.

What if that contract puts in jeopardy the contracts of all the prospects they've been drafting for the last 4 years?
- YuenglingJagr

It's a tricky one. But the guy is maybe the rarest combo of skill and toughness in the league, and I'm not going to give him up because he maybe, might, possibly won't be great one day in the future.

No matter what, they'll have some tough calls to make in the next few years, and they'll have to make the right ones for it to work.

It's a contract that you're not going to like the last 2 or so years. But right now, this team should go all in within the next 2-3 years, and that means keeping Simmonds. He'll probably want 6 years, so I'd keep him, knowing that you're really only getting 4 years of him, which should be your window.

If they win one Cup in the next 4-5 years, I'll live with the consequences afterwards and be content. Not necessarily happy, but content. I just want 1 before I die, as it's the last current item on my bucket list.
- jmatchett383

I disagree. The best move to make is trading a guy a year early then a year to late.

Use the assets you will get from Wayne to continue to replenish the pipeline.

I look at a team like the Kings and you see how they fell in love with their players and now they are in for a long rough ride.

I disagree. The best move to make is trading a guy a year early then a year to late.

Use the assets you will get from Wayne to continue to replenish the pipeline.

I look at a team like the Kings and you see how they fell in love with their players and now they are in for a long rough ride.
- ggunky

If the Flyers win 2 Cups in 3 years, I'll deal with the consequences.

I see Simmonds the same way that the Penguins saw Bill Guerin, that veteran player that put them over the top. I just envision us in 3 years going, "Man, if only we had a player like Wayne Simmonds right now..."

I disagree. The best move to make is trading a guy a year early then a year to late.

Use the assets you will get from Wayne to continue to replenish the pipeline.

I look at a team like the Kings and you see how they fell in love with their players and now they are in for a long rough ride.
- ggunky

Also, see: Phillies, Philadelphia.



I am neither advocating the trading of Simmonds, nor am I condoning the six or seven year deal that Simmonds will want (and I can totally see why a player in his situation would want such a deal). I am merely pointing out that one can definitely overpay and overkeep aging, declining skills players.

Also, see: Phillies, Philadelphia.



I am neither advocating the trading of Simmonds, nor am I condoning the six or seven year deal that Simmonds will want (and I can totally see why a player in his situation would want such a deal). I am merely pointing out that one can definitely overpay and overkeep aging, declining skills players.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Give me 5 straight division titles, a Cup win, another run to the Cup, and another trip the ECF and I'll deal with it.

I just want one. That's all.

Lots of posts complaining about Hakstol's lineup decisions but none praising him for the move of Giroux to the wing, switching Filppula and Patrick, putting the 4th line together.
- MJL

I called it a stroke of genius the other day.

I'm still calling it a stroke of genius today. I wish I had thought of it.

It is kind of mind blowing how much Canada loves that band and that guy. I never fell in love with their music, but definitely respect them. (frank) cancer
- YuenglingJagr

Their music embodies themes and values that Canadians hold dear. There have been many great acts out of Canada but none represent us as great as the Hip. RIP Gordie.

I called it a stroke of genius the other day.

I'm still calling it a stroke of genius today. I wish I had thought of it.
- fls13

One of the reasons that I've been hesitant to kill Hakstol for his line combinations and decision making in the past is that quite frankly he hasnt exactly had a stable full of studs that he could throw out on the ice in all situations.

It always seemed to me that no matter what he did, the Flyers were going to be weak somewhere. The likes of Bellemare and Vandevelde were necessities born of poor asset management down through the years. My impression was that the coach was trying to win at poker holding a weak hand.

According to the Mark I Eyeball which I still use to view Flyers games (I know, I know! you actually WATCH games? how passé!), this is the most talented team they've iced in quite some time.

Now Hasktol has the luxury to do things he couldn't have done in the past.

Ice a skilled and fast fourth line? Sure! No Bellemare's and Vandevelde's here.

Stick Couturier on the top line the shore up the top line's obvious defensive deficiencies and make the most of Coots' offensive skillset? Sure!

Mix and match the 2nd and 3rd lines to find workable combinations that can push the puck up the ice and maximize scoring depth? We can do that!

Whatever happens the rest of this year, this team is going to be a lot more fun to watch than the teams of the last two or three seasons.

Hexy should sign Hagg right now to an 8 year 20 mil dollar deal

Also, see: Phillies, Philadelphia.



I am neither advocating the trading of Simmonds, nor am I condoning the six or seven year deal that Simmonds will want (and I can totally see why a player in his situation would want such a deal). I am merely pointing out that one can definitely overpay and overkeep aging, declining skills players.
- Doc_Sarcasm

That is my fear.

Ilove Simmonds and would love to see him retire a Flyer but $$$ talks and the salary cap is something that has to play into the equation.

One of the reasons that I've been hesitant to kill Hakstol for his line combinations and decision making in the past is that quite frankly he hasnt exactly had a stable full of studs that he could throw out on the ice in all situations.

It always seemed to me that no matter what he did, the Flyers were going to be weak somewhere. The likes of Bellemare and Vandevelde were necessities born of poor asset management down through the years. My impression was that the coach was trying to win at poker holding a weak hand.

According to the Mark I Eyeball which I still use to view Flyers games (I know, I know! you actually WATCH games? how passé!), this is the most talented team they've iced in quite some time.

Now Hasktol has the luxury to do things he couldn't have done in the past.

Ice a skilled and fast fourth line? Sure! No Bellemare's and Vandevelde's here.

Stick Couturier on the top line the shore up the top line's obvious defensive deficiencies and make the most of Coots' offensive skillset? Sure!

Mix and match the 2nd and 3rd lines to find workable combinations that can push the puck up the ice and maximize scoring depth? We can do that!

Whatever happens the rest of this year, this team is going to be a lot more fun to watch than the teams of the last two or three seasons.
- Doc_Sarcasm

too busy soaking it in on the rangers thread
- YuenglingJagr

JFC, what a collapse and boneheaded mistakes at the end of the game. not like the preds loss since they ended up with a point. but good lord. i wanted them and tampa to win last night and both blew 3rd period leads and lost in OT/SO. (frank)ers.

One of the reasons that I've been hesitant to kill Hakstol for his line combinations and decision making in the past is that quite frankly he hasnt exactly had a stable full of studs that he could throw out on the ice in all situations.

- Doc_Sarcasm

Nobody can make a cake out a few stones and mud. The Flyers have been losing and not replacing talent up front since 2012. Now that they can put 4 lines on the ice that can play, we're seeing a completely different team and it's benefiting everyone.

That is my fear.

Ilove Simmonds and would love to see him retire a Flyer but $$$ talks and the salary cap is something that has to play into the equation.
- ggunky

It is also possible to jettison a player too early,

see: Dawkins, Brian.

Hey all,

Be sure to read this article. Good stuff.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=88165

It is also possible to jettison a player too early,

see: Dawkins, Brian.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Dawkins will be a HOF. But yes its possible. Our prospects will factor into this, that's why I want the flyers to take it all the way to the end. A lot of good teams in this league don't have a player that can do the things Wayne can do, and they're doing just fine.

Ugh I want this Simmonds decision to be delayed as long as possible. It's a tough one. And who knows, if we didn't land Patrick that option could have been explored this past offseason. Regardless let's stay positive guys, has anyone mentioned that it's great we aren't having a typical slow start to the season?! I know it's still early but I've liked our jump in the start of games rather than waiting until we are down 2-3 goals going into the 3rd until we wake up

It is also possible to jettison a player too early,

see: Dawkins, Brian.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Agreed. However i think that was a move that was made after the Eagles were already on the downside of their run.

This Flyers squad has only started the their climb, or so we all hope!

When Wayne is ready for his next contract, this Flyers team should be starting their run of playoffs and possible Stanley Cup talk. Well that is the expected time frame must of us have been giving them.

This is a fun topic to debate and i can see both sides of the argument.

I swear I think people think athletes are robots. Sometimes guys have down years due to health, personal things or just because they just didn't have a good year. Just because they are pros and the best in the world it doesn't mean they aren't immune to not playing well. Giroux has been an excellent player for the Flyers. Yes, I get annoyed at the defensive lapses at times but all in all the guy has played well and hard here.

this team is easy to like for me. Even with lineup decisions I am not in favor of (Sanheim sitting and Morin in the minors and Elliott in over Neuvirth early on) I still root 100% for every player on the ice.

there were more empty seats at the game last night than what I would have hoped for but I suspect if they keep playing like that it won't be the case as the season progresses
- nastyflyergirl

yes, to all of this.

i think we've all had cautious optimism waiting for the draft picks of the last 4 years to finally start filtering in to transform the team and we're starting to see that payoff. nobody could have predicted we'd land a nolan patrick which changes things a lot. many of us want to see a few more of the kids playing, myself included, particularly sanheim and morin, but we'll just have wait a little while longer.

i just look at this as a springboard year to really push them forward to where they're going to be in 2-3 years.

regarding G, i had no issue with where he plays, W or C...i honestly didn't give a (frank). or that Coots was moving up to center him. i'm all for experimenting in camp and preseason to find new things that might work. kudos to Hak for that. but this early success doesn't eliminate the criticisms of the coach and the captain from what's happened until now. i think that stuff is valid. i was shocked to discover he has 400 assists last night. had no idea it was that high. he's obviously been a good player for them for a long time, and hopefully this year's rebound trend continues and he stays healthy.

I find it funny that Hakstol can't be criticized because certain players are scoring points.

Flyers are 3-0 when Brandon Manning is playing, so obviously that is the right decision? We can all agree to that right?

There are good things happening so far, but the season is 6 games old. Giroux is shooting 36%, Coots has a ridiculous 20% on-ice shooting percentage (25% himself). His PDO is 116. Nolan Patrick has a 40% Corsi, but has yet to be on the ice for a goal against. Filppula is shooting 40%. Provorov and Gudas lead the team in giveaways.

They have the 4th highest team shooting percentage in the league. Last year they finished 24th. I don't suspect they will stay 4th.

They are a different team in the offensive zone. The behind the net plays are very fun to watch and they are getting to the net much easier. The speed at which the team is able to move up the ice has been a breath of fresh air. They are absolutely a better hockey team than last year, and they are seeing that plus some luck (which didn't exist last year).

As some of the unsustainable percentages from guys like Giroux, Coots, and Filppula come back to earth, hopefully it will pick up for the other guys like Jake, Weal, and Sanheim.
- YuenglingJagr

I don't think Hakstol can't be criticized. It's the number 1 topic on these threads. Him getting credit for anything is much more rare.

I disagree. The best move to make is trading a guy a year early then a year to late.

Use the assets you will get from Wayne to continue to replenish the pipeline.

I look at a team like the Kings and you see how they fell in love with their players and now they are in for a long rough ride.
- ggunky

Have we experienced a long rough ride? we've done that without celebrating a Cup. The Kings won it twice. If keeping Simmonds means building a legitimate Cup contender and a risk of the contract being an issue later, I'm all in. You keep trading top players for youth, you never get there. At some point you have to go for the big payoff.

Also, see: Phillies, Philadelphia.



I am neither advocating the trading of Simmonds, nor am I condoning the six or seven year deal that Simmonds will want (and I can totally see why a player in his situation would want such a deal). I am merely pointing out that one can definitely overpay and overkeep aging, declining skills players.
- Doc_Sarcasm

at what age and circumstance, can a player retire and the CAP hit not count

Have we experienced a long rough ride? we've done that without celebrating a Cup. The Kings won it twice. If keeping Simmonds means building a legitimate Cup contender and a risk of the contract being an issue later, I'm all in. You keep trading top players for youth, you never get there. At some point you have to go for the big payoff.
- MJL

I would call Claude and Jake top players.

I expect Provy and Ghost to only continue to improve over the next couple of years and they are already pretty darn good.

Kony and Patrick project to be top line guys and i dont advocate trading either of them.

I never stated they should trade anyone over a certain age i was speaking specifically to one player.

I agree, at some point you do have to go all in but you do it in a way that both helps you short term as well as long term. What i mean by this is, i think the $ amount Simmonds is looking for will have a tremendous impact on whether it will make sense for the Flyers to sign him versus trade him.

The other thing that makes this fun to debate is, the stocked prospect pool the Flyers have. It is quite possible the Flyers are grooming the next Simmonds already.

I would call Claude and Jake top players.

I expect Provy and Ghost to only continue to improve over the next couple of years and they are already pretty darn good.

Kony and Patrick project to be top line guys and i dont advocate trading either of them.

I never stated they should trade anyone over a certain age i was speaking specifically to one player.

I agree, at some point you do have to go all in but you do it in a way that both helps you short term as well as long term. What i mean by this is, i think the $ amount Simmonds is looking for will have a tremendous impact on whether it will make sense for the Flyers to sign him versus trade him.

The other thing that makes this fun to debate is, the stocked prospect pool the Flyers have. It is quite possible the Flyers are grooming the next Simmonds already.
- ggunky

We do have Lindblom, Allison, and now Ratcliffe. We can't say confidently they will bring anything close to Simmonds as they haven't played a minute in the NHL, but they are big bodied wingers with scoring touches. Ratcliffe intrigues me. He's freaking huge.