I think it's quite obvious they don't have much more to offer and the team is largely successful right now because they're not getting top minutes anymore.
- LeftCoaster

Sedins are smart dudes, I think they know this season is their swan song.

No....Pres offered me a trade in the pool.
- LeftCoaster

Done, sorry Whitelie, needed to push that one out a little quicker.

I have six forwards with 12 points or better, Vantel has two and he's poop-talkin my team

Were you drunk when you picked that team

Obviously, I agree to an extent, the more shots, the better chance of scoring/winning.

But this one particular stat doesn't paint an accurate team picture.
Tampa for example are -21 in SAT, yet there +21 in goal differential and currently 1st overall at 12-2. That to me is just fawking weird!!

Individually, last year - top 10 in SAT were:
Burns, Sequin, Karlsson, Bergeron, Voracek - yet they averaged around 8% shooting - that's equivalent to Loui Ekrisson and Reid Boucher's numbers....
- Brooks_Light

TB also has the top line in the league carrying them to victories.

Sedins are smart dudes, I think they know this season is their swan song.
- Brooks_Light

Even they have to admit, and can see, the team is better with them barely playing 5 on 5.

Obviously, I agree to an extent, the more shots, the better chance of scoring/winning.

But this one particular stat doesn't paint an accurate team picture.
Tampa for example are -21 in SAT, yet there +21 in goal differential and currently 1st overall at 12-2. That to me is just fawking weird!!

Individually, last year - top 10 in SAT were:
Burns, Sequin, Karlsson, Bergeron, Voracek - yet they averaged around 8% shooting - that's equivalent to Loui Ekrisson and Reid Boucher's numbers....
- Brooks_Light

Yeah, we're getting into the weeds a bit here I think, as I think you are mixing up a player's SAT (which is all shot attempts generated while he is on the ice) vs a player's iSAT (which are the shots that he actually takes himself).

When evaluating teams, I think corsi obviously has it's limitations. For players, I prefer to go individual vs overall as the general SAT stat is greatly affected by zone starts, quality of competition, etc.

If you look at iSAT/60 from last season (minimum 50 games played), the top ten in the league shakes out like this:
1. Brent Burns
2. Brendan Gallagher
3. Evander Kane
4. Alex Ovechkin
5. Jeff Skinner
6. Brett Richie
7. Viktor Arvidsson
8. Patrice Bergeron
9. Vladamir Tarasenko
10. Max Paccioretty

It's clearly not a perfect analysis, but if Boeser can find his way onto this list this season, he'll be in good company

Darrylls work definitely doesnt make me like guddy any more lol.
- Codes1087

The thing that giddy does that is interesting (power forwards do the opposite) is he reduces high scoring chances against.

While his corsi for is low due to a variety of reasons, defencive zone stats, quality of competition, no offensive instincts, he does lower the quality of scoring chances for the opposing team.
The eye test sees this as doing things like clearing the front of the net and keeping his man to the outside. The corsi test sees this as an increase in shots against as he doesn't defend well to shots from low danger areas.

Fixed

TB also has the top line in the league carrying them to victories.
- Retinalz

the 2nd line of Point, Palat, Gourde have combined for 37pts which is better than most teams 1st lines.

It's clearly not a perfect analysis, but if Boeser can find his way onto this list this season, he'll be in good company
- nucks_94

At the end of the day - I like Boeser, you like Boeser, we all win!

Even they have to admit, and can see, the team is better with them barely playing 5 on 5.
- LeftCoaster

Maybe all these things are true, but if they finish the season with 35 points and think they can contribute, and the team looks poised to take a step forward they might want to give it one more shot. Every training camp they are “the most fit” players in testing.

Maybe all these things are true, but if they finish the season with 35 points and think they can contribute, and the team looks poised to take a step forward they might want to give it one more shot. Every training camp they are “the most fit” players in testing.
- 1970vintage

Sh1t, give them 1 million per deals to fill out the third line and ill be happy. Vantel?

Maybe all these things are true, but if they finish the season with 35 points and think they can contribute, and the team looks poised to take a step forward they might want to give it one more shot. Every training camp they are “the most fit” players in testing.
- 1970vintage

I thought they would hit 50 points and return for another season. Did not see them performing this poorly, so I am unsure they return.

I'd now guess that if they finish below 40 points, they retire; above 50 return for another year; in between probably return as they seem completely healthy, but kind of a toss up

I love that everyone is opening up the analytical conversation without being prompted by any of the nerds. An open mind about this stuff really gives you a whole new world on player performance!

I thought they would hit 50 points and return for another season. Did not see them performing this poorly, so I am unsure they return.

I'd now guess that if they finish below 40 points, they retire; above 50 return for another year; in between probably return as they seem completely healthy, but kind of a toss up
- WhiteLie

Yes its unusual their performance thus far, albeit with low minutes.
Perhaps once they find their new place on the team production will increase. Henrik stumbled at 1st when danny went down to injury but rebounded strong to capture the scoring title by year end. So its possible they rebound.

Alternatively since theyre not producing together why not try splitting them and see what happens

Yes its unusual their performance thus far, albeit with low minutes.
Perhaps once they find their new place on the team production will increase. Henrik stumbled at 1st when danny went down to injury but rebounded strong to capture the scoring title by year end. So its possible they rebound.

Alternatively since theyre not producing together why not try splitting them and see what happens
- SMBDragon

I used to think splitting them was a good idea, but I think the game has changed quite a bit in speed since their scoring title years. Their strength has always been to control the pace of the game, slow it down to their speed with quick small passes. Without the other, there is less chemistry for those types of plays and a higher likelihood IMO they get left behind on plays

Jagr's recent struggles are how I'd expect the Sedin's would look with 2 kids next to them, minus JJ's ability to shoot

I used to think splitting them was a good idea, but I think the game has changed quite a bit in speed since their scoring title years. Their strength has always been to control the pace of the game, slow it down to their speed with quick small passes. Without the other, there is less chemistry for those types of plays and a higher likelihood IMO they get left behind on plays

Jagr's recent struggles are how I'd expect the Sedin's would look with 2 kids next to them, minus JJ's ability to shoot
- WhiteLie

Also, the Sedin's lost both of their most effective wingers (Hansen and Burrows) and are adjusting to playing with JV (or maybe the other way around).
Surely this is a factor, along with age and slowing down.

If we cast our minds back to even when they were on the top of their game, they struggled when not matched with the right fella.

Also, the Sedin's lost both of their most effective wingers (Hansen and Burrows) and are adjusting to playing with JV (or maybe the other way around).
Surely this is a factor, along with age and slowing down.

If we cast our minds back to even when they were on the top of their game, they struggled when not matched with the right fella.
- dbot

Very good point, they didnt have training camp with JV and even started the year with Vanek. It could take a while but I like Jake's speed to replace Hansen's, I hope they stick with it

I used to think splitting them was a good idea, but I think the game has changed quite a bit in speed since their scoring title years. Their strength has always been to control the pace of the game, slow it down to their speed with quick small passes. Without the other, there is less chemistry for those types of plays and a higher likelihood IMO they get left behind on plays

Jagr's recent struggles are how I'd expect the Sedin's would look with 2 kids next to them, minus JJ's ability to shoot
- WhiteLie

I mean fairly temporarily to break them from old habits and introduce new dimensions to their game.
The problem with with the sedins is their game has gotten predictable n teams know simply to place a player between the 2 of them to prevent the pass, which shuts them both down.

But hey you never know, splitting them could be magic too. Just try, its early in the season.

Very good point, they didnt have training camp with JV and even started the year with Vanek. It could take a while but I like Jake's speed to replace Hansen's, I hope they stick with it
- WhiteLie

Thats the point I made when burrows n hanson were traded....who will play w sedins now?

I too like jake on that line

Thats the point I made when burrows n hanson were traded....who will play w sedins now?

I too like jake on that line
- SMBDragon

Granny had some success there (Gramps and Granny line), but he has been pretty valuable in a shutdown/counter attack line this year.

Saw this on twitter a couple weeks back, kinda speaks to your point there about getting chances from certain areas:


- WhiteLie

Nice. There's a few sites that track "high danger shot attempts". A perfect example that we've come along way from just looking at corsi

Thats the point I made when burrows n hanson were traded....who will play w sedins now?

I too like jake on that line
- SMBDragon

I am much happier with Dahlen and Goldobin than having a crutch for the Sedin's

As Codes pointed out, crazy how Hansen went from first liner with Sedin's to healthy scratch on SJ. The Sedin's have been creating assets for years and they finally cashed in

Granny had some success there (Gramps and Granny line), but he has been pretty valuable in a shutdown/counter attack line this year.
- dbot

TGs choices have put my trust in him. Love what he has done. ..Team is winning!
Im sure these players will settle in to the changes and production will come

I am much happier with Dahlen and Goldobin than having a crutch for the Sedin's

As Codes pointed out, crazy how Hansen went from first liner with Sedin's to healthy scratch on SJ. The Sedin's have been creating assets for years and they finally cashed in
- WhiteLie

I actually feel bad for Hansen. Hard to believe he isnt better than one of the 12 forwards in SJ. Not really sure what is going on there

Nice. There's a few sites that track "high danger shot attempts". A perfect example that we've come along way from just looking at corsi
- Nucker101

I too am glad that the stats have evolved from just talking Corsi/Fenwick. I am fascinated by a few like shots from the slot, zone entries and passing completion into the slot.

Obviously none fully encapsulate the sport but some are interesting to follow and highlight some player's unique ability to influence the game that might be overlooked