The majority of Kane's career still suggests he isn't. There are plenty of okay players that have really good years. They're not the norm, and they often come during contract years. I still want to see him outside of a contract year and without the "get your act together or your career will come to a quick end" ultimatum, which, make no mistake, still exists, and will until he gets his next contract, whoever that might be with.

You can make an argument for O'Reilly, but he is a non-factor far too often for the contract he has.
- buffalofan19

Kane didn’t play really well for us last year?
That wasn’t a contract year
Also, I believe that narrative is severely overhyped nonsense

“O’Reilly is a non-factor far too often”
If u think that, then no offense, but I don’t think u realize how important the defensive role he plays actually is
He makes a factor EVERY NIGHT even when he has zeros on the score sheet

Ok... but we still won’t know where we are drafting at the time we trade Kane

We could finish 3rd & end up picking 6th
Look what happened last year

You’re assuming we can replace Kane
I don’t think it’s a sure thing that we can
It’s VERY risky imo
- jdfitz77

This team is still a couple years off. Too many bad contracts, draft picks not turning out well. Kane’s production compared to his contract in 3 years when we should be competitive again won’t be worth it. Dump him now.

Package Reinhart with Okposo for just a pick, shed his salary.

Moulson and bogo will be over soon. In 3 years our only “bad” contract will be O’Reilly and he can at least lead a defensive line for us.

Retool with 2-3 first rd picks this year from ours, Kane and Reinhart

Kane didn’t play really well for us last year?
That wasn’t a contract year
Also, I believe that narrative is severely overhyped nonsense

“O’Reilly is a non-factor far too often”
If u think that, then no offense, but I don’t think u realize how important the defensive role he plays actually is
He makes a factor EVERY NIGHT even when he has zeros on the score sheet
- jdfitz77

The win column on the teams he has played on throughout his career suggests otherwise.

The role of the shutdown center has diminished greatly since the lockout of 2005.

1) Kesler is not playing

2) Bergeron only played 14 games yet still the best two-way defensive forward in the game

3) if there was a trade for ROR and toews I would do that in a second and put the C on his chest

The funny thing of those three everyone would trade Ryan O'Reilly for
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Toews is a 60-70 point player

O’Reilly is a 55-65 point player, who plays MORE of a defensive role than Toews

U wanna compare salaries?
ROR does what Toews does for 3mil a year cheaper

I saw Justice League again last night

Another thing I have to complain about so at the end of bvs when Superman was "dead" but in the coffin we saw the rocks start to gravitate

But in this movie they went in different direction and basically made him dead

Then of course we know what" happened " for him to come back but they made him evil Superman I was super excited about

then they backpedaled and basically he just was mad at people which was nonsense because he volunteered to do what he did

But the movie was still better than any DC movie I've seen in a long time besides Wonder Woman and Batman
So it's a start

This team is still a couple years off. Too many bad contracts, draft picks not turning out well. Kane’s production compared to his contract in 3 years when we should be competitive again won’t be worth it. Dump him now.

Package Reinhart with Okposo for just a pick, shed his salary.

Moulson and bogo will be over soon. In 3 years our only “bad” contract will be O’Reilly and he can at least lead a defensive line for us.

Retool with 2-3 first rd picks this year from ours, Kane and Reinhart
- Fattony1187

U act like the supposed pick we will get for these guys will work out
There’s a really good chance than any pick we get for Sam or Kane are never as good as those guys

The win column on the teams he has played on throughout his career suggests otherwise.

The role of the shutdown center has diminished greatly since the lockout of 2005.
- buffalofan19

O’Reilly is a TWO-WAY Center
Not a defensive specialist ONLY

And just stop with the “win column” BS
OEL must suck by your logic, right?

Toews is a 60-70 point player

O’Reilly is a 55-65 point player, who plays MORE of a defensive role than Toews

U wanna compare salaries?
ROR does what Toews does for 3mil a year cheaper
- jdfitz77

Your telling me you wouldn't trade Ryan O'Reilly for toews right now ?

He knows what it takes to win Stanley Cups that's something we do not have with these losers all they know how to do is lose they need to bring someone in that has won a cup

Out of everyone on our roster how many of them have been in the playoffs and how many games? How many of them have been in a winning organization?

U act like the supposed pick we will get for these guys will work out
There’s a really good chance than any pick we get for Sam or Kane are never as good as those guys
- jdfitz77

Don’t act like that at all. I know what Sam is and again, I like Kane but in 3 years his contract will be bad. You think he’s gonna sign for 5 mill? He will want an Okposo contract, no thanks.

This team isn’t working, needs to be changed

Your telling me you wouldn't trade Ryan O'Reilly for toews right now ?

He knows what it takes to win Stanley Cups that's something we do not have with these losers all they know how to do is lose they need to bring someone in that has won a cup

Out of everyone on our roster how many of them have been in the playoffs and how many games? How many of them have been in a winning organization?
- GERBE!!!75PTS

That doesn’t mean they are bad players dude!

Don’t act like that at all. I know what Sam is and again, I like Kane but in 3 years his contract will be bad. You think he’s gonna sign for 5 mill? He will want an Okposo contract, no thanks.

This team isn’t working, needs to be changed
- Fattony1187

He's going to want more then okposo

O’Reilly is a TWO-WAY Center
Not a defensive specialist ONLY

And just stop with the “win column” BS
OEL must suck by your logic, right?
- jdfitz77

Same thing. Now we're just getting into semantics.

And OEL's contract isn't this team's problem. I don't care how the Coyotes manage their contracts.

Don’t act like that at all. I know what Sam is and again, I like Kane but in 3 years his contract will be bad. You think he’s gonna sign for 5 mill? He will want an Okposo contract, no thanks.

This team isn’t working, needs to be changed
- Fattony1187

Kane isn’t what’s wrong with this team
You can make a pretty good argument that he’s #1 on the list of things that are right

And I disagree about him not being effective in 3 years
That may end up being true,
but I think you’re assuming too much

That doesn’t mean they are bad players dude!
- jdfitz77

Honestly I would only save two people out of this whole organization jack , mittelstadt

The rest are just Backpackers and only here for the money

Same thing. Now we're just getting into semantics.

And OEL's contract isn't this team's problem. I don't care how the Coyotes manage their contracts.
- buffalofan19

No we aren’t!
ROR isnt Sammy Phalsson, he’s Toews

And O’Reilly’s contract isn’t our teams problem either
And that wasn’t my point

U brought up O’Reilly being on teams who don’t win as a strike against him
I used OEL to show how that logic is flawed and ridiculous
There’s plenty of very good players who aren’t on good teams

Honestly I would only save two people out of this whole organization jack , mittelstadt

The rest are just Backpackers and only here for the money
- GERBE!!!75PTS

That’s just dumb

Same thing. Now we're just getting into semantics.

And OEL's contract isn't this team's problem. I don't care how the Coyotes manage their contracts.
- buffalofan19

This post is this board in a nutshell.

It boils down to this: I don’t care what reality is I just want to female dog about the Sabres.

This post is this board in a nutshell.

It boils down to this: I don’t care what reality is I just want to female dog about the Sabres.
- Der Kaiser

I should know better than to try & be reasonable & logical...
my bad

No we aren’t!
ROR isnt Sammy Phalsson, he’s Toews

And O’Reilly’s contract isn’t our teams problem either
And that wasn’t my point

U brought up O’Reilly being on teams who don’t win as a strike against him
I used OEL to show how that logic is flawed and ridiculous
There’s plenty of very good players who aren’t on good teams
- jdfitz77

And as you pointed out, Toews' contract is becoming an anchor. I'm not advocating moving O'Reilly, and certainly not just for the sake of moving him. However, that doesn't make him a difference maker. The only fanbases that dismiss the win column are the ones that don't see that many in the first place.

Those who think it’s wise to trade away Kane or ROR should look at how long Edmonton was bad for...

U can collect talent,
but that doesn’t mean you’re “building a team”

I’m not saying this to dog Jack at all...
but right now, O’Reilly & Kane are every bit as important to this team

They do things that no else on our roster can do
And will not easily be replaced

I understand the “trade Kane” reasons
They’re reasonable
But it’s also taking for granted that he can be easily replaced

And when you’re a team who struggles to score, it certainly makes sense to me to want to keep your best scorer

I know we all want him to be the best Sabre ever, but I don't know what Jack has done to consider him any more of a difference maker than ROR or Kane or any other player on this team. Things aren't looking very good and from my vantage point, don't look like they are about to get better. Cursed.

The win column on the teams he has played on throughout his career suggests otherwise.

The role of the shutdown center has diminished greatly since the lockout of 2005.
- buffalofan19

this

ROR is a 60-point guy. That's it. His best defensive attribute is faceoffs. He's not even that great defensively, honestly.

He wanted to be "the" guy in Colorado, made a huge fuss about it, got traded to an equally terrible team, failed to elevate this team and now is the sole reason Jack ECHL isn't wearing a C on his jersey and it's not a very good reason, tbh.

Those who think it’s wise to trade away Kane or ROR should look at how long Edmonton was bad for...

U can collect talent,
but that doesn’t mean you’re “building a team”

I’m not saying this to dog Jack at all...
but right now, O’Reilly & Kane are every bit as important to this team

They do things that no else on our roster can do
And will not easily be replaced

I understand the “trade Kane” reasons
They’re reasonable
But it’s also taking for granted that he can be easily replaced

And when you’re a team who struggles to score, it certainly makes sense to me to want to keep your best scorer
- jdfitz77

Kane and ROR are the only two players that routinely score goals for this team.

I know we all want him to be the best Sabre ever, but I don't know what Jack has done to consider him any more of a difference maker than ROR or Kane or any other player on this team. Things aren't looking very good and from my vantage point, don't look like they are about to get better. Cursed.
- Hatboro_Swords

ROR and Kane have been in the league for like 8 years each. Big difference.

But Jack is floating. And watching too often. That's on the coach but he'll probably run him out of town the second he tries to coach him.

And as you pointed out, Toews' contract is becoming an anchor. I'm not advocating moving O'Reilly, and certainly not just for the sake of moving him. However, that doesn't make him a difference maker. The only fanbases that dismiss the win column are the ones that don't see that many in the first place.
- buffalofan19

Who said I’m “dismissing” the win column?
Of course it matters...
but it’s also not an accurate judgment on how good or bad any single player is on a team

Edmonton stinks... is McDavid bad?
I can do that sort of thing all day long

Heck, I can do it with the Sabres!
Is Jack not a “difference maker” bc of our record?

I’m trying to be nice here,
but it’s like u don’t really get the nuances that go into winning a hockey game

The defensive role O’Reilly plays MAKES A DIFFERENCE

Without him,
who do we have that wins faceoffs in our own end?
NO ONE

And who even takes those draws?
Jack?
Do u really want him playing that role when we need him & Kane scoring as much as possible?
O’Reilly taking all those def zone draws is directly beneficial to Jack being able to play in more offensive situations

There would be a major difference if he wasn’t here to do so

I don’t know how to break it down any more clear than that
Either u get it, or u just ignore it

There’s many more ways to make a difference than just on the score sheet