Again, I am not suggesting they should trade him for the sake of trading him. However, even if the scenario above played out, you wouldn't see much of a difference. This team has lost far more games than it has won during O'Reilly's time here. The Colorado Avalanche lost far more games than they won when O'Reilly demanded he be paid like an elite player at the age of 23 (or whatever it was). That's how you tell whether or not a player is a difference maker. He's a good player. I never said otherwise. However, if this team values him as a difference maker, it will never come close to a championship. Bad teams consider players like O'Reilly as "difference makers", and that's exactly what the Buffalo Sabres are.
- buffalofan19

O’Reilly does for us what Toews does for Chicago
The only reason anyone considers Toews a difference maker and not ROR is the championships

The Hawks would’ve still won if they had ROR instead
And we’d still be not good with Toews

Yes, Toews is better
But it’s not as wide a margin as ppl think
And using team winning % as a basis for an INDIVIDUAL’S performance is flawed

how dare you

hot take

something

ror intangibles

1st year coach

injuries

reinhart is soft

kane selfish

bad d

mediocre goaltending

rabid, deserving fanbase

Some of these are not true.
- BeadyEyedDouche

I dare because I can
Fish rot from the head
Not the tail
D not responsible when 15
2 games in row
Fails to be a man
And man-up in D zone.
The rest is on you.

Oh, we know what ROR adds to the team. And it's not just points. But there's players just like him who play harder, score less and o more for their teams and for much less money.

If you're going to argue that points aren't a measure.

He's a good player. But that's it, he really isn't special.
- BeadyEyedDouche

1) you could argue the $$$ thing for TONS of players in the league

2) I’ve never even remotely said “points aren’t a measure”
Just trying to say they aren’t the ONLY measure
Especially bc u have to consider how hard it is to score when you’re taking every damn def zone faceoff!!!

O’Reilly does for us what Toews does for Chicago
The only reason anyone considers Toews a difference maker and not ROR is the championships

The Hawks would’ve still won if they had ROR instead
And we’d still be not good with Toews

Yes, Toews is better
But it’s not as wide a margin as ppl think
And using team winning % as a basis for an INDIVIDUAL’S performance is flawed
- jdfitz77

Your comparison to Toews is correct. If the Sabres traded him for Toews, it would be a pointless move other than maybe for publicity, which lends to my earlier point. The role that both players play has been severely overvalued for quite some time.

Teams gameplan against Jack Eichel. They don't gameplan against Ryan O'Reilly.

It's like the Bills and Marcel Dareus. The Bills are hurt by Dareus' absence. Even when he was at his worst attitude wise, teams still had to double-team him on virtually every play. They don't to do that with anyone else on the Bills' line.

Jack Eichel commands the same type of respect from opponents. Ryan O'Reilly does not, not by a long shot.
- buffalofan19

So teams don’t try to match up their best offensive players against our other lines?
With all due respect,
watch more closely sir
They absolutely put them out there against other lines (including Jack’s) when they can

U don’t have to be “exciting” to “make a difference”

Your comparison to Toews is correct. If the Sabres traded him for Toews, it would be a pointless move other than maybe for publicity, which lends to my earlier point. The role that both players play has been severely overvalued for quite some time.
- buffalofan19

I think u severely undervalue their role
If u can play those tough defensive situations, and still score 60ish or more points...
that makes a HUGE difference
That’s why I originally said ROR was more like Toews than Sammy Phalsson

If u put Jack in O’Reilly’s role,
his scoring would go down and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective in our own end

To me...
that “makes a difference”

I’m not calling ROR another “Ovechkin”
But what he does is important
And he does it well

So teams don’t try to match up their best offensive players against our other lines?
With all due respect,
watch more closely sir
They absolutely put them out there against other lines (including Jack’s) when they can

U don’t have to be “exciting” to “make a difference”
- jdfitz77

Setting matchups on a line shift is not the same thing as gameplanning. Teams understand that even if they get the most optimal matchups off changes their best players will still be on the ice against guys like O'Reilly at least for half of their ice time.

What Jack Eichel commands is in the film room. "When you're on the ice against him, do not let him do this. Force him to this part of the ice and keep him away from that." That's what Eichel commands. It's not about being "exciting". It's about having the ability to single handedly beat you. Ryan O'Reilly has never shown that ability. That's what good teams understand, and what poor teams have trouble grasping.

I think u severely undervalue their role
If u can play those tough defensive situations, and still score 60ish or more points...
that makes a HUGE difference
That’s why I originally said ROR was more like Toews than Sammy Phalsson

If u put Jack in O’Reilly’s role,
his scoring would go down and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective in our own end

To me...
that “makes a difference”

I’m not calling ROR another “Ovechkin”
But what he does is important
And he does it well
- jdfitz77

"Making a difference" should be all about the win column. "When player x does what he does best, does my team win more games than they lose because of it." That is the mindset that championship teams operate under, and the one that I have been longing to see this team as well as the Buffalo Bills adopt for over a decade.

The answer for that question for O'Reilly is "no". At least last year, this team won more games than it lost when Eichel put points on the board. You can't say the same for O'Reilly.

Setting matchups on a line shift is not the same thing as gameplanning. Teams understand that even if they get the most optimal matchups off changes their best players will still be on the ice against guys like O'Reilly at least for half of their ice time.

What Jack Eichel commands is in the film room. "When you're on the ice against him, do not let him do this. Force him to this part of the ice and keep him away from that." That's what Eichel commands. It's not about being "exciting". It's about having the ability to single handedly beat you. Ryan O'Reilly has never shown that ability. That's what good teams understand, and what poor teams have trouble grasping.
- buffalofan19

I don’t think u have to be able to do that to be a “difference maker”

For example:
Afonagenov could do that
But he wasn’t a better player than O’Reilly

And how many games are actually won & lost bc of one particular player “single hadedly beating them”
Outside of goalies,
that just doesn’t happen very often at all

So defining it in that manner doesn’t work for me

"Making a difference" should be all about the win column. "When player x does what he does best, does my team win more games than they lose because of it." That is the mindset that championship teams operate under, and the one that I have been longing to see this team as well as the Buffalo Bills adopt for over a decade.

The answer for that question for O'Reilly is "no". At least last year, this team won more games than it lost when Eichel put points on the board. You can't say the same for O'Reilly.
- buffalofan19

Couldn’t disagree more
You aren’t giving O’Reilly near the credit he deserves
Dude does his role very well
And if we had ANYONE else that could win a faceoff in our own end,
you’d see O’Reilly scoring a lot more
Did u see him playing for Team Canada?
He’s got offensive skills

I don’t think u have to be able to do that to be a “difference maker”

For example:
Afonagenov could do that
But he wasn’t a better player than O’Reilly

And how many games are actually won & lost bc of one particular player “single hadedly beating them”
Outside of goalies,
that just doesn’t happen very often at all

So defining it in that manner doesn’t work for me
- jdfitz77

Afinogenov rarely did that. He had some talent, but not much game breaking ability, largely because he simply wasn't a smart hockey player. Now, I'm not saying he had to be Sam Reinhart and win games with his mind (this is sarcasm), but Afinogenov's hockey IQ was ridiculously low, and that's why he never fit that bill.

Couldn’t disagree more
You aren’t giving O’Reilly near the credit he deserves
Dude does his role very well
And if we had ANYONE else that could win a faceoff in our own end,
you’d see O’Reilly scoring a lot more
Did u see him playing for Team Canada?
He’s got offensive skills
- jdfitz77

I him play a role for Team Canada that a monkey on skates could fill and that team would have still won gold, yes.

That's not a knock on him so much as that Canada's roster was head, shoulders and man-tits above everyone else in that tournament. And remember, he also didn't make the original roster. It took two injuries for him to get called as a reserve.

Afinogenov rarely did that. He had some talent, but not much game breaking ability, largely because he simply wasn't a smart hockey player. Now, I'm not saying he had to be Sam Reinhart and win games with his mind (this is sarcasm), but Afinogenov's hockey IQ was ridiculously low, and that's why he never fit that bill.
- buffalofan19

I used Max as an example bc he could take the puck in his own end,
and go down & score
All by himself

O’Reilly can’t do that
But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t effect the outcome of games

I think the way you’re defining “difference maker” is extremely limiting
How many do u think there are?

Guys don’t wins games by themselves anymore
McDavid, Karlsson, Crosby, Pat Kane, Ovechkin...
that’s about it as far as guys who can do it consistently
Maybe a few more names u can add in
But I think u get my point

ROR doesn’t have to be Kucherov to “make a difference” for us
You’re underselling the importance of the role he plays

"Making a difference" should be all about the win column. "When player x does what he does best, does my team win more games than they lose because of it." That is the mindset that championship teams operate under, and the one that I have been longing to see this team as well as the Buffalo Bills adopt for over a decade.

The answer for that question for O'Reilly is "no". At least last year, this team won more games than it lost when Eichel put points on the board. You can't say the same for O'Reilly.
- buffalofan19

No matter how thin you slice it, it’s still baloney.

I him play a role for Team Canada that a monkey on skates could fill and that team would have still won gold, yes.
- buffalofan19

Wasn’t about him winning gold
Was using that as an example bc he was freed up to play more offensively,
and produced quite well in that regard

No matter how thin you slice it, it’s still baloney.
- Der Kaiser

The six going on seven straight seasons without a postseason appearance say otherwise.

The seven going on eight straight seasons without a postseason appearance say otherwise.
- buffalofan19

Another dumb post in the evaluation of an individual player.

I’m certain you know better and are just willfully ignoring good sense.

The six going on seven straight seasons without a postseason appearance say otherwise.
- buffalofan19

If u think that’s O’Reilly’s fault,
you’re crazy

If u think that’s O’Reilly’s fault,
you’re crazy
- jdfitz77

It would be "his fault" if he wasn't playing to his ability or playing a role he isn't suited for.

It's not "his fault". He's simply not good enough to make a difference.

It would be "his fault" if he wasn't playing to his ability or playing a role he isn't suited for.

It's not "his fault". He's simply not good enough to make a difference.
- buffalofan19

He’s not McDavid
Doesn’t mean he doesn’t make a difference

He’s not McDavid
Doesn’t mean he doesn’t make a difference
- jdfitz77

McDavid plays well, Edmonton wins games. McDavid plays poorly. Edmonton loses games.

Ryan O'Reilly plays poorly, Buffalo loses games. Ryan O'Reilly plays well. This team still loses games.

That is why McDavid is a difference maker and O'Reilly is not. That does not mean he isn't a good player.

That is how Championship caliber teams evaluate players and how I pray how Jason Botterill does.

McDavid plays well, Edmonton wins games. McDavid plays poorly. Edmonton loses games.

Ryan O'Reilly plays poorly, Buffalo loses games. Ryan O'Reilly plays well. This team still loses games.

That is why McDavid is a difference maker and O'Reilly is not. That does not mean he isn't a good player.

That is how Championship caliber teams evaluate players and how I pray how Jason Botterill does.
- buffalofan19

All of this.

O’Reilly is solid. Not a good “2nd best player” that contending teams need.

All of this.

O’Reilly is solid. Not a good “2nd best player” that contending teams need.
- sbroads24

He’s better than “solid”

Hey Potato - why so reasonable. Long Jail stint get your mind right?
- Der Kaiser

I'm always reasonable when it comes to Hockey. Peter Chiarelli is a hack. Good enough to sacrifice years of tanking and collecting assets for a quick fix and a playoff run, but little else.

Out: Taylor Hall, Justin Schultz, Jordan Eberle, Nail Yakupov, Brandon Davidson 2016 1st ( Barzal)

In: Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome, Zack Porcino( who?) and a few losers no longer on the Oilers

Not exactly a recipe for success.

McDavid plays well, Edmonton wins games. McDavid plays poorly. Edmonton loses games.

Ryan O'Reilly plays poorly, Buffalo loses games. Ryan O'Reilly plays well. This team still loses games.

That is why McDavid is a difference maker and O'Reilly is not. That does not mean he isn't a good player.

That is how Championship caliber teams evaluate players and how I pray how Jason Botterill does.
- buffalofan19

McD must be a bad player this year.

And Jack Eichel, and all the Florida Panthers are bad players, too.


Dumb dumb dumb dumb.