Again for the billionth time I say trade Kane now for badly needed stud defenseman. Housley will not be successful unless Botterill provides his coach with this very important piece. Some idiot GM will give Kane a long term contract hopefully not the Sabres. He needs to move Kane now and I mean now before Kane gets hurt. Or worse his production slows down which would lower his trade value. It's strange how you mentioned Eichels body laguage. I"ve noticed that from the beginning of the season and it coincided with the forcing of Kane to play along side Jack instead of Reinhart. This is something I can't understand from Housley. Phil refuses to move the Kane/Eichel pairing. I don't see why O'Reilly isn't inserted between the Jack and Sam pairing. This stubborness on Housley's part or his failure to make the proper player line matches fast enough may be his demise.

I would assume so, but starting with the puck 20 feet from the opposing net is better than 115ish(dot outside your zone)
- Wetbandit1

I don’t even understand why he’s trying to argue this

It’s super obvious that it’s easier to score when u start in the offensive zone as opposed to the defensive zone

It’s just common sense

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/22/the-effect-of-zone-starts-on-offensive-production

This is from a while ago, 2012, but-

“In other words, the average skater, when given 100 extra offensive zone starts over the course of a season, can be expected to score three more points than he otherwise would. This result is more extreme, of course, for a Sedin: in 2011-12, Daniel Sedin had a differential of +423 per 82 games, in about 876 zone-start-affected minutes. For every extra 100 zone starts, the above says he would gain 3.3 points, so our results suggest he gained about 14 extra points over the whole season from zone starts alone - or 20% of his even strength point total. For Henrik, it’s about the same.”

3 point difference on average
- sbroads24

It's 3 points per every 100 faceoffs.

ROR has already taken almost 500 faceoffs(489) and 64% of them in the defensive zone. That's 312 in the D-Zone and 177 in the O-Zone. So he should have about 4 more points right now according to an "average" player. ROR is better than "average".

I don’t even understand why he’s trying to argue this

It’s super obvious that it’s easier to score when u start in the offensive zone as opposed to the defensive zone

It’s just common sense
- jdfitz77

And the goal of every shift is not to score a goal. It would be nice, sure. But given the system it's more trying to prevent the other team from scoring.

It's like saying the object of every play in football is to score a TD, again it's not not to score a TD, but sometimes all you want is 3 yards.

Again for the billionth time I say trade Kane now for badly needed stud defenseman. Housley will not be successful unless Botterill provides his coach with this very important piece. Some idiot GM will give Kane a long term contract hopefully not the Sabres. He needs to move Kane now and I mean now before Kane gets hurt. Or worse his production slows down which would lower his trade value. It's strange how you mentioned Eichels body laguage. I"ve noticed that from the beginning of the season and it coincided with the forcing of Kane to play along side Jack instead of Reinhart. This is something I can't understand from Housley. Phil refuses to move the Kane/Eichel pairing. I don't see why O'Reilly isn't inserted between the Jack and Sam pairing. This stubborness on Housley's part or his failure to make the proper player line matches fast enough may be his demise.
- Goalieguy43

But is that trade available?
Sakic held out for like a year & a half with Duchene (who is NOT a rental) and the best he could get was a good defensive prospect

IF
we can get a “stud” defenseman...
ok, makes sense

But if we are just getting a “top4” guy...
then it’s probably better to keep Kane’s scoring
Especially since we are struggling so much to put up goals

It's 3 points per every 100 faceoffs.

ROR has already taken almost 500 faceoffs(489) and 64% of them in the defensive zone. That's 312 in the D-Zone and 177 in the O-Zone. So he should have about 4 more points right now according to an "average" player. ROR is better than "average".
- Wetbandit1

This is skewed.

Even with him taking a ton of D zone draws, he still takes more O zone draws than most of the league because the dude plays a ton of minutes.

That’s part of my point. It’s not like he’s a 3rd line center who’s sole focus is defense and PK’ing. He’s part of our offense

And the goal of every shift is not to score a goal. It would be nice, sure. But given the system it's more trying to prevent the other team from scoring.

It's like saying the object of every play in football is to score a TD, again it's not not to score a TD, but sometimes all you want is 3 yards.
- Wetbandit1

Right?
It’s the difference on trying to score when you start from your 20,
vs when u start from the opponents 20

It’s not exactly the same thing,
but it’s OBVIOUSLY easier & more likely you’d score when starting in the offensive zone than the defensive zone

To try & dent this is foolish & ridiculous

I don’t even understand why he’s trying to argue this

It’s super obvious that it’s easier to score when u start in the offensive zone as opposed to the defensive zone

It’s just common sense
- jdfitz77

He.Takes.Tons.of.offensive.draws.too.

Stop ignoring this fact

This is skewed.

Even with him taking a ton of D zone draws, he still takes more O zone draws than most of the league because the dude plays a ton of minutes.

That’s part of my point. It’s not like he’s a 3rd line center who’s sole focus is defense and PK’ing. He’s part of our offense
- sbroads24

Yeah, of course
Who’s denying that?!
The guy doesn’t score 55-65pts by accident

All we are saying is that he’d SCORE MORE if he were put in more offensive situations

I can’t believe you’re even arguing this
It’s super obvious dude!

It's 3 points per every 100 faceoffs.

ROR has already taken almost 500 faceoffs(489) and 64% of them in the defensive zone. That's 312 in the D-Zone and 177 in the O-Zone. So he should have about 4 more points right now according to an "average" player. ROR is better than "average".
- Wetbandit1

These numbers are also incorrect.

Where are the neutral zone face off’s?

He.Takes.Tons.of.offensive.draws.too.

Stop ignoring this fact
- sbroads24

When did I say he didn’t?
Read more!

U act like we are comparing ROR to some scrub 3rd liner
We aren’t at all

Yeah, of course
Who’s denying that?!
The guy doesn’t score 55-65pts by accident

All we are saying is that he’d SCORE MORE if he were put in more offensive situations

I can’t believe you’re even arguing this
It’s super obvious dude!
- jdfitz77

And it wouldn’t be a big difference, at all.

He’s not even a good 5 on 5 scorer. He racks his points up on the PP

And it wouldn’t be a big difference, at all.

He’s not even a good 5 on 5 scorer. He racks his points up on the PP
- sbroads24

Bc he starts so much more in the Def Zone

How do u not get this?

And it wouldn’t be a big difference, at all.

He’s not even a good 5 on 5 scorer. He racks his points up on the PP
- sbroads24

ONCE AND FOR ALL

Is it easier to score when you start in your own end or in the offensive zone?

WHICH ONE?

Bc he starts so much more in the Def Zone

How do u not get this?
- jdfitz77

How are YOU not getting this?

He still gets more offensive zone starts than most top 6 forwards.

It’s the same thing with Ristolainen. People moan about how he takes every tough matchup, and ignore the fact that he’s put on the ice every time we need a goal, on the PP, down by a goal in the offensive zone etc.

Him playing so many minutes inflates his scoring

ONCE AND FOR ALL

Is it easier to score when you start in your own end or in the offensive zone?

WHICH ONE?
- jdfitz77

Fitz, if he didn’t get the defensive zone starts, he wouldn’t play 20 minutes a night.

The scoring would be the same.

You can’t give your 2nd line center 20 minutes a night of offensive zone starts

How are YOU not getting this?

He still gets more offensive zone starts than most top 6 forwards.

It’s the same thing with Ristolainen. People moan about how he takes every tough matchup, and ignore the fact that he’s put on the ice every time we need a goal, on the PP, down by a goal in the offensive zone etc.

Him playing so many minutes inflates his scoring
- sbroads24

And what Top6 forwards don’t play the PP?
Or down by a goal?
U act like EVERY TEAM doesn’t do that with their best players
Does Toews not play the PP or go on the ice when they need to tie it up?
Kesler? Burgeron? Etc etc etc
WE ARENT COMPARING HIM TO GIRGS

And more to our point...
not every one of these players is also MUCH MORE HEAVILY USED DEFENSIVELY for the other 80% of the game

Yes,
O’Reilly is part of our offense
That’s why he gets 55-65pts a year

Yes,
He’d also score more if he was given more offensive zone chances
It’s logical
And obvious
Anyone’s stats would be helped if this were the case
And someone as skilled as ROR would have his stats go up closer to the Sedin’s 14pts vs Malhotra & Yannic Weber’s stays that are in the 3pt range

Stop cherry picking stats

Fitz, if he didn’t get the defensive zone starts, he wouldn’t play 20 minutes a night.

The scoring would be the same.

You can’t give your 2nd line center 20 minutes a night of offensive zone starts
- sbroads24

Really...
What are the offensive zone starts for Crosby & for Malkin?
How about Toews & Kane?

Really...
What are the offensive zone starts for Crosby & for Malkin?
How about Toews & Kane?
- jdfitz77

Didn’t you just say that Crosby wasn’t comparable to O’Reilly?

Didn’t you just say that Crosby wasn’t comparable to O’Reilly?
- sbroads24

I’m pointing out how you can have 2 lines get big minutes when they both start 60% offensively instead of defensively
(Or whatever the % is if u break it down by neutral zone also)

Don’t act like u don’t get my point

You’re trying to say we can’t allocate our minutes like that
If Pitt & Chicago do it with their top2 lines,
WHY CANT WE?

Really...
What are the offensive zone starts for Crosby & for Malkin?
How about Toews & Kane?
- jdfitz77

Do you realize how many shifts are on the fly? How many O zone starts come with losing a face off and possession?

How many goals have we scored this season have been off of a face off in the O zone? Not a ton.
You’re exaggerating the difference it would make IMO

24 hours of ROR

24 hours of ROR
- Der Kaiser

Weird because he should come with 0 controversy

Does his job
Already signed
Scores points

Do you realize how many shifts are on the fly? How many O zone starts come with losing a face off and possession?

How many goals have we scored this season have been off of a face off in the O zone? Not a ton.
You’re exaggerating the difference it would make IMO
- sbroads24

Do u realize that you CONSTANTLY not answer questions I pose so that u can try & twist the narrative?

U said ROR can’t get big minutes if we give him more offensive zone starts...
Correct? You did say that, right?

Now if that’s true,
Then how do Pitt and Chicago accomplish this?
What are their numbers?

Arguing the effectiveness is a different point

I’ll get to that after you admit you’re wrong about how the icetime can be achieved

Wasn’t it 31pts off turnover though?
Not saying the defense played well,
but u can only ask so much when you’re constantly on the field in your own end

Our defense was never great to begin with
We just got a lot of turnovers
- jdfitz77

We thought Taylor and his 3 and outs were bad

Nathan Peterman: Hold my beer, we won't even get to the third down if I have any say in things.

Dennison is a serious (frank)ing idiot, but what kind of a head coach let's his OC make a mockery of him?

Terry Pegula has his spoon in everyone's soup. Trust me, this guy has a say in how often a guy can fart, until he decides to pay him to go away for the next 3 or 4 years.