Pollution.

Baloney sliced thin.
- Der Kaiser

Der komissar,it might be released tomorrow..PRICE is done

Der komissar,it might be released tomorrow..PRICE is done
- Buffalo39

Shouldn’t “done” be the capitalized part?

Bergeron has 12 points in 14 games. How is he torching him?

And hasn’t O’Reilly missed like 10-15 games each of the last few years?
- sbroads24

OReilly has 125% that production.

Der komissar,it might be released tomorrow..PRICE is done
- Buffalo39

Im not saying there isn’t something out there, but this is the third day in the row that the news has been breaking tomorrow.

Der komissar,it might be released tomorrow..PRICE is done
- Buffalo39

There is no way the NHL is hiding this big of a secret it would burn them to the ground imo

But if you're right I'll give you credit

Im not saying there isn’t something out there, but this is the third day in the row that the news has been breaking tomorrow.
- Der Kaiser

Der komissar, I saw you doing undercover work on Montreal site. Do you understand this Is huge news, the guy is getting divorced, this is his 4th incident

“Defensive workload” is an over rated term in hockey.

You realize he’s on the ice to produce offense first, like his “defensive responsibility” isn’t to sit in his zone for a minute and a half. It’s to play offense
- sbroads24

Oh, ok...
so u expect the same amount of offense from guys who get more def zone starts as opposed to those who get more offensive zone starts?

Come on man
That’s ridiculous

You play DEFENSE FIRST in your own zone
And where do the overwhelming majority of RORs zone starts take place?

“Defensive workload” is an over rated term in hockey.

You realize he’s on the ice to produce offense first, like his “defensive responsibility” isn’t to sit in his zone for a minute and a half. It’s to play offense
- sbroads24

If Jack were to take on all the defensive zone starts O’Reilly currently does...
do u think Jack’s stats would stay the same, go up, or go down?

Seems pretty obvious to me

And it’s not like O’Reilly is a slouch on the score sheet
He’s a 55-65 point player

Oh, ok...
so u expect the same amount of offense from guys who get more def zone starts as opposed to those who get more offensive zone starts?

Come on man
That’s ridiculous

You play DEFENSE FIRST in your own zone
And where do the overwhelming majority of RORs zone starts take place?
- jdfitz77

Sidney Crosby plays the tough defensive matchups for Pitt and is a good defensive forward. How come it’s never mentioned as effecting his production?

O’Reilly gets PLENTY of offensive opportunity, including racking up PP points because of being with Eichel.

Sidney Crosby plays the tough defensive matchups for Pitt and is a good defensive forward. How come it’s never mentioned as effecting his production?

O’Reilly gets PLENTY of offensive opportunity, including racking up PP points because of being with Eichel.
- sbroads24

Um...
you’re comparing O’Reilly to the best player of the last 10years?
No one is saying he’s that good

How do u think Jack’s stats would be affected if he were taking all the def zone starts that ROR is?
Of course his numbers would go down
ANYONE’S WOULD

And yes,
That does mean I think Crosby’s stats would also go up if he were give less Def Zone starts

It logically makes sense
Ignoring it, does not make sense

Sidney Crosby plays the tough defensive matchups for Pitt and is a good defensive forward. How come it’s never mentioned as effecting his production?

O’Reilly gets PLENTY of offensive opportunity, including racking up PP points because of being with Eichel.
- sbroads24

What are Crosby’s zone start numbers?

Um...
you’re comparing O’Reilly to the best player of the last 10years?
No one is saying he’s that good

How do u think Jack’s stats would be affected if he were taking all the def zone starts that ROR is?
Of course his numbers would go down
ANYONE’S WOULD

And yes,
That does mean I think Crosby’s stats would also go up if he were give less Def Zone starts

It logically makes sense
Ignoring it, does not make sense
- jdfitz77

Remember when Sam Reinhart was going to light it up playing against other teams 3rd pairs? (Not a dig at you, just an example)

This stuff matters a lot less than you’re giving it credit for. O’Reilly plays 20 minutes a night with PLENTY of O-zone draws

Matchups and competition even itself out over the course of a season.

Remember when Sam Reinhart was going to light it up playing against other teams 3rd pairs? (Not a dig at you, just an example)

This stuff matters a lot less than you’re giving it credit for. O’Reilly plays 20 minutes a night with PLENTY of O-zone draws

Matchups and competition even itself out over the course of a season.
- sbroads24

It would even itself out if it were closer to 50/50 dude

Are u really trying to say it’s as easy to score when you’re starting in your own zone vs when u start in the offensive zone?

You’re the stats guy...
can u look up those numbers?
Bc i’d bet there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE

It would even itself out if it were closer to 50/50 dude

Are u really trying to say it’s as easy to score when you’re starting in your own zone vs when u start in the offensive zone?

You’re the stats guy...
can u look up those numbers?
Bc i’d bet there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE
- jdfitz77

There was an article I read a few years ago on zone starts and quality of comp. and you’d be surprised how little a difference it makes.

I’m not saying he isn’t slightly effected, but for every tough spot he’s put in, he’s also put in an advantageous spot, such as the #1 PP unit, or offensive starts.

It would even itself out if it were closer to 50/50 dude

Are u really trying to say it’s as easy to score when you’re starting in your own zone vs when u start in the offensive zone?

You’re the stats guy...
can u look up those numbers?
Bc i’d bet there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE
- jdfitz77

Hockey reference says 64% defensive zone starts

It would even itself out if it were closer to 50/50 dude

Are u really trying to say it’s as easy to score when you’re starting in your own zone vs when u start in the offensive zone?

You’re the stats guy...
can u look up those numbers?
Bc i’d bet there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE
- jdfitz77

http://nhlnumbers.com/201...s-on-offensive-production

This is from a while ago, 2012, but-

“In other words, the average skater, when given 100 extra offensive zone starts over the course of a season, can be expected to score three more points than he otherwise would. This result is more extreme, of course, for a Sedin: in 2011-12, Daniel Sedin had a differential of +423 per 82 games, in about 876 zone-start-affected minutes. For every extra 100 zone starts, the above says he would gain 3.3 points, so our results suggest he gained about 14 extra points over the whole season from zone starts alone - or 20% of his even strength point total. For Henrik, it’s about the same.”

3 point difference on average

There was an article I read a few years ago on zone starts and quality of comp. and you’d be surprised how little a difference it makes.

I’m not saying he isn’t slightly effected, but for every tough spot he’s put in, he’s also put in an advantageous spot, such as the #1 PP unit, or offensive starts.
- sbroads24

You’re saying it’s basically even and it’s just NOT at all

He has FAR MORE defensive zone starts

And any PP opportunities he gets are easily balanced by all the PK time he gets

I just found this from an article a couple years ago...
it’s for Corsi & not goals, but I’d assume the numbers are reasonably close


To make a judgement about the overall impact that zone starts have we first need to figure out what the impact of a single zone start is on possession. To do that, we can simply look at all the 5v5 shifts taken since 2008 in aggregate, and calculate the overall Corsi For Percentage broken down by starting location.

Zone Start CF%
Def. Zone 37.7%
Neu. Zone 47.7%
Off. Zone 59.8%
On-The-Fly 50.9%


that’s a HUGE difference

Um...
you’re comparing O’Reilly to the best player of the last 10years?
No one is saying he’s that good

How do u think Jack’s stats would be affected if he were taking all the def zone starts that ROR is?
Of course his numbers would go down
ANYONE’S WOULD

And yes,
That does mean I think Crosby’s stats would also go up if he were give less Def Zone starts

It logically makes sense
Ignoring it, does not make sense
- jdfitz77

He already gets 55% O-Zone starts. 61% this year.

He already gets 55% O-Zone starts. 61% this year.
- Wetbandit1

Pittsburgh kind of has more whistles in the opposition’s zone than Buffalo, no?

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/22/the-effect-of-zone-starts-on-offensive-production

This is from a while ago, 2012, but-

“In other words, the average skater, when given 100 extra offensive zone starts over the course of a season, can be expected to score three more points than he otherwise would. This result is more extreme, of course, for a Sedin: in 2011-12, Daniel Sedin had a differential of +423 per 82 games, in about 876 zone-start-affected minutes. For every extra 100 zone starts, the above says he would gain 3.3 points, so our results suggest he gained about 14 extra points over the whole season from zone starts alone - or 20% of his even strength point total. For Henrik, it’s about the same.”

3 point difference on average
- sbroads24

For “average” players
O’Reilly & Eichel, etc are not average


From the article u posted

CONCLUSION

Going back to the questions we asked at the beginning:

1) It certainly appears that you can pump up a player’s offensive stats with more offensive zone time. That is, it’s not simply that better offensive players get more OZone starts, but that the favourable zone starts do indeed affect a player’s point total.

2) This effect is probably at least a couple of points per season for the average player, and while maybe not 14, certainly quite a bit higher for those who benefit from the "Sedin treatment".


Also...
the numbers they used are giving equal measure to say point differences scored by Larsson & Girgs as they would Jack & ROR
Obviously that’s gonna bring down the overall average DRAMATICALLY

U kinda cherry picked stats here again

It even says in their conclusion under point 2 that players given the Sedin treatment would have a higher disparity that the 3pts per season

I think the shots stats I posted are much more relevant in determining the effect that starting in the Def Zone vs the Off Zone makes

So. I suspected that McDermott wasn't behind the Tyrod benching.

Monday: No QB change. Tuesday morning: Peterman gives us the best chance to win.

At least all the Peterman hype bros will shut the (frank) up now.

That was possibly the worst performance I have ever seen from a QB.

But we still got a 50-spot dropped on us.

Pittsburgh kind of has more whistles in the opposition’s zone than Buffalo, no?
- sbroads24

I would assume so, but starting with the puck 20 feet from the opposing net is better than 115ish(dot outside your zone)

SUCK IT COWBOYS

F#CK YOU JERRY JONES
YOU'RE A SCUMBAG

What a catch by Jeffrey
Game over baby!

So. I suspected that McDermott wasn't behind the Tyrod benching.

Monday: No QB change. Tuesday morning: Peterman gives us the best chance to win.

At least all the Peterman hype bros will shut the (frank) up now.

That was possibly the worst performance I have ever seen from a QB.

But we still got a 50-spot dropped on us.
- BeadyEyedDouche

It was Dennison. There was an article about it. Tyrod doesn't fit what he wants to do, and he refuses to "go down with the ship". 3 Defensive TDs really helped their score as well.

So. I suspected that McDermott wasn't behind the Tyrod benching.

Monday: No QB change. Tuesday morning: Peterman gives us the best chance to win.

At least all the Peterman hype bros will shut the (frank) up now.

That was possibly the worst performance I have ever seen from a QB.

But we still got a 50-spot dropped on us.
- BeadyEyedDouche

Wasn’t it 31pts off turnover though?
Not saying the defense played well,
but u can only ask so much when you’re constantly on the field in your own end

Our defense was never great to begin with
We just got a lot of turnovers