Dude he's a rental and we suck. Get the cap space and address the D with it at a later time. Mittelstadt and nylander will replace his production and dumbass penalties in time.
- Sabresfan-365

Blunt. But fair

Larkin for Eichel

I was going to go there, but just didn't have it in me.

The guy's production isn't irreplaceable, especially when you consider the fact that he still has yet to eclipse 30 goals more than once.
- buffalofan19

I think people will be surprised how many more 20 goal scorers are on the team when the D is fixed and the forwards can think offence instead of collapsing to do the defence's job for them

Here's the disconnect. When looking at his entire body of work, I don't find the production that you would be losing to be all that great. Would it hurt in the short term? Perhaps it will be, if he keeps this pace up (not sustainable for most), and stays healthy (history says that's a question mark at its most optimistic). But in that short term, you're a 30th place team, so what are you really getting? A player that makes a the blue collar portion of the fanbase feel good about itself? You're certainly not getting more wins.
- buffalofan19

I think u can only make that assumption for THIS season though
Ok, now I’m about to say “next year”
So try not to let that kill what I’m saying

In the “short term” as u put it...

-Do Mittelstadt, Nylander & Guhle come in & make an impact?
-Are Bailey, Baptiste, Asplund, Rodrigues, etc giving is production that Moulson, Griffith, Larsson, Girgs, etc etc are not giving us?
-Can we get a goalie who’s better than Lehner?

I think the above scenarios are all likely

Now does that make us Pittsburgh?
No, probably not

Playoffs though?
Yeah, I like our chances

You’re making it sound like we will be stuck in 30th no matter what

I disagree

Blunt. But fair
- sbroads24

I can't wait till it's over so we can discuss if botterill's CTE was the reason he moved him.

Blunt. But fair
- sbroads24

We’d be better with Mittelstadt, Nylander AND Kane though

Seriously guys...

Is CAP SPACE our issue
Or is it NOT ENOUGH GOOD PLAYERS

I think the answer is obvious
We need all the good players we can get!!!

I disagree that it is that east. if it were that east the Sabres would not be in last place.

Carlson is going to command a massive overpay because it's Jan 1.

Win the draft lottery and Draft Dahlin.

Remember Bailey and Baptiste were thought to be sure fire top 6 prospects wingers and they are now struggling to crack the lineup.
- ImThatGuy

No, I actually don't remember the part above in bold ever being said.

Possible? Yes. Sure fire? That is way overstating what even the believers had thought and said.

We’d be better with Mittelstadt, Nylander AND Kane though

Seriously guys...

Is CAP SPACE our issue
Or is it NOT ENOUGH GOOD PLAYERS

I think the answer is obvious
We need all the good players we can get!!!
- jdfitz77

wed be better with nylander, mittelstadt and a good defence. And no adding more scandella's with Kane. I'm talking about good d-men not bang average but looks good in comparison to josh gorges.

Why would we want to lock up this 30th place team?

It’s beyond me why anyone would want to do that.

We should be purging contracts and getting assets again.

This team is terrible and needs another mini overhaul
- sbroads24

I have a difficult time believing Botterill would do that, as the only way I could see it happen is some of the dead weight is purged in conjunction with the signing, or the owner stepped in and mandated the signing, which I don't believe will happen as I want to believe Botterill would have said that was not going to be happening before he took the job.

I think u can only make that assumption for THIS season though
Ok, now I’m about to say “next year”
So try not to let that kill what I’m saying

In the “short term” as u put it...

-Do Mittelstadt, Nylander & Guhle come in & make an impact?
-Are Bailey, Baptiste, Asplund, Rodrigues, etc giving is production that Moulson, Griffith, Larsson, Girgs, etc etc are not giving us?
-Can we get a goalie who’s better than Lehner?

I think the above scenarios are all likely

Now does that make us Pittsburgh?
No, probably not

Playoffs though?
Yeah, I like our chances

You’re making it sound like we will be stuck in 30th no matter what

I disagree
- jdfitz77

Each scenario is fairly likely by itself. Having all of those scenarios come to fruition at once is not. They need all of those scenarios to come to fruition if they want to be a wildcard team, not a top 3 divisional seed, a wildcard team.

Here’s a realistic scenario-

Kane signs massive deal, returns to injury riddled 35-43 point seasons on a bad team that regrets signing him
- sbroads24

I've got another realistic scenario:

They trade Kane to the highest bidder by the time the trade deadline is done, and then make a run at him as an FA signing if and only if other things work/don't work before the FA period begins.

I think people will be surprised how many more 20 goal scorers are on the team when the D is fixed and the forwards can think offence instead of collapsing to do the defence's job for them
- Sabresfan-365

I don’t disagree
BUT
Keeping Kane gives us a chance to have 3 lines that can score
Moving him makes that much tougher

Since Jack & Sam will never be Crosby & Malkin...
we NEED that 3rd line to be able to outplay other 3rd lines & score

FOR EXAMPLE
Were Drury & Briere as good as The other superstars in the league?
No
But we had a great team bc when team focused on them,
Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov KILLED THEM

Now wouldn’t it be nice to have
Nylander-Mittlestadt-Baptiste? doing the same?
Can’t do that if we are trading Kane & Sam

If we do, then they’re in the top6...
and we are hoping for scoring from
Bailey-Asplund-Baptiste

wed be better with nylander, mittelstadt and a good defence. And no adding more scandella's with Kane. I'm talking about good d-men not bang average but looks good in comparison to josh gorges.
- Sabresfan-365

He does bring up a good question, though: where do you get those?

I'm with you. Trade Kane, and use the cap space to get that guy (preferably multiple), but I still have doubts as to where you are going to get them.

If, in your dream scenario, you do draft Dahlin (Dahlen?), you won't need to sign him to big money for a while.

wed be better with nylander, mittelstadt and a good defence. And no adding more scandella's with Kane. I'm talking about good d-men not bang average but looks good in comparison to josh gorges.
- Sabresfan-365

But can we trade Kane for a “Lindholm” type?
I don’t think that’s possible

If it is, ok... let’s do it

But Kane is a rental
The AVs could get a top pair guy for Duchene
So what makes us think we can for Kane?

I don’t disagree
BUT
Keeping Kane gives us a chance to have 3 lines that can score
Moving him makes that much tougher

Since Jack & Sam will never be Crosby & Malkin...
we NEED that 3rd line to be able to outplay other 3rd lines & score

FOR EXAMPLE
Were Drury & Briere as good as The other superstars in the league?
No
But we had a great team bc when team focused on them,
Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov KILLED THEM

Now wouldn’t it be nice to have
Nylander-Mittlestadt-Baptiste? doing the same?
Can’t do that if we are trading Kane & Sam

If we do, then they’re in the top6...
and we are hoping for scoring from
Bailey-Asplund-Baptiste
- jdfitz77

The problem is, if you don't improve that defense corps dramatically, it won't matter even if you have that. No team has the 3 line caliber that the 2006 and 2007 Sabres (and Ottawa Senators) had, and they never will again. And I'm not sure even those teams could mask this team's defensive flaws.

If you are a GM, and you have to figure out where you're going to get the most value to help your team in the long run, who are you trading?

Kane or Girgensons?
- thatsapickle

The correct answer is both?

But can we trade Kane for a “Lindholm” type?
I don’t think that’s possible

If it is, ok... let’s do it

But Kane is a rental
The AVs could get a top pair guy for Duchene
So what makes us think we can for Kane?
- jdfitz77

I think all of us on the "trade Kane" boat are resigned to the fact that you aren't getting the defenseman for Kane directly or even as part of a package. The idea is to free up the space and acquire that defenseman another way, using the money you didn't pay Kane to do so.

Each scenario is fairly likely by itself. Having all of those scenarios come to fruition at once is not. They need all of those scenarios to come to fruition if they want to be a wildcard team, not a top 3 divisional seed, a wildcard team.
- buffalofan19

Ok... I’ll agree
But wouldn’t u agree that that “wild card” team can grow into a top3 divisional team

A lot of what I proposed has young talent that could/should improve as they go from 21-23 year olds to 26-28 year olds

And if enough grow & develop into good players...
then we are talking about winning the division
Not drafting in the damn lotto for the best 5 years

I can listen to the argument that you are getting more value for services rendered for Kane than in a trade. The question is when are you getting that value? Is he still going to be producing at this pace in three years from now when we all hope this team at least resembles a contender? If you're not, you're just signing him for the sake of signing him. This team needs to start looking 2 or 3 years down the road, not next year. That's how big of a mess this is.

My position on re-signing Kane would be much different if this team was a perennial playoff team. Hell, I still could be talked into it if you can move Okposo for an expiring contract or for futures.
- buffalofan19

I think the bold is the only way they try signing Kane, as an FA, as I have no doubt they will trade him by the time the trade deadline is over, unless they have some kind of miraculous recovery as a team and are in a playoff spot.

The problem is, if you don't improve that defense corps dramatically, it won't matter even if you have that. No team has the 3 line caliber that the 2006 and 2007 Sabres (and Ottawa Senators) had, and they never will again. And I'm not sure even those teams could mask this team's defensive flaws.
- buffalofan19

Ok... I’m still with ya...
tell me how trading Kane does that though?

And i disagree
Kane-Jack-Sam, that’s the Briere line
Bailey-ROR-Okposo, the Drury line
*do u remember Drury’s linemates?

Now if we don’t have to play Mittelstadt & Nylander on the top line...
then we have 2/3 of our Vanek-Roy-Max line
Don’t ya think?

Ok... I’ll agree
But wouldn’t u agree that that “wild card” team can grow into a top3 divisional team

A lot of what I proposed has young talent that could/should improve as they go from 21-23 year olds to 26-28 year olds

And if enough grow & develop into good players...
then we are talking about winning the division
Not drafting in the damn lotto for the best 5 years
- jdfitz77

The problem is that you are signing a good player to "very good to great player" money, and banking on a bunch of scenarios all coming together at the same time. That's not likely. If even one of those groups of players doesn't live up to expectations, you're stuck needing a "Plan B", with a lot less money and cap room to do it, and a contract that's not going to help with that Plan B.

But can we trade Kane for a “Lindholm” type?
I don’t think that’s possible

If it is, ok... let’s do it

But Kane is a rental
The AVs could get a top pair guy for Duchene
So what makes us think we can for Kane?
- jdfitz77

Did I say get a top pair guy for Kane. I said move him and address the D later. He's a rental he's not fetching anything except picks and prospects.

Ok... I’m still with ya...
tell me how reading Kane does that though?
- jdfitz77

The money has to come from somewhere. And that somewhere is either Kane or Okposo. I would prefer it be the latter. I wouldn't lose sleep if it were both.

He does bring up a good question, though: where do you get those?

I'm with you. Trade Kane, and use the cap space to get that guy (preferably multiple), but I still have doubts as to where you are going to get them.

If, in your dream scenario, you do draft Dahlin (Dahlen?), you won't need to sign him to big money for a while.
- buffalofan19

The bolded is by far the biggest hurdle to becoming a true quality team.

There are far more Scandella's available then the kind of defenseman most people badly want, and really, how many of those kind of defensemen are A. great every single season and B. somehow 'available'?

He does bring up a good question, though: where do you get those?

I'm with you. Trade Kane, and use the cap space to get that guy (preferably multiple), but I still have doubts as to where you are going to get them.

If, in your dream scenario, you do draft Dahlin (Dahlen?), you won't need to sign him to big money for a while.
- buffalofan19

Yep it's always through the draft. Merkley, boqvist, smith etc..