Joel Armia selected 16 overall was a "Throw in" and is the opposite of high expectations.

Trading the 21st overall pick for a starting NHL goaltender was a complete waste of a very valuable pick.
- Der Kaiser

He had expectations with us. I never said he didn't. That doesn't change what he is today.

This whole argument is the splitting of hairs.

Right now the Sabres are bad. We could definitely use some of the players that were traded way, but hindsight is 20/20.

Who knows what this team would look like now without ROR, Kane, Bogo, and Lehner and the picks/pieces used to acquire them still here.
- thatsapickle

We'd be getting absolutely destroyed. Think Larsson on the 2nd line, Ullmark as starting goalie and Girgs as top line LW.

We'd be getting absolutely destroyed. Think Larsson on the 2nd line, Ullmark as starting goalie and Girgs as top line LW.
- RhinoFan

We are right now.

We are in 30th place.

We'd be getting absolutely destroyed. Think Larsson on the 2nd line, Ullmark as starting goalie and Girgs as top line LW.
- RhinoFan

We'd still have (possibly/probably):

Grigorenko
Zadorov
Compher
1st round selection from 2015
1st round selection from 2015
Myers
Stafford
Armia
Lemeuix
probably others I am forgetting.

Say Grigorenko and Staffrord walk away you still have Myers, Zadorov, Compher, Armia and Lemuix chomping at the bit (theoretically).

Who knows who they would have selected in those picks and where they would be now also.

None of this matters.

We'd still have (possibly/probably):

Grigorenko
Zadorov
Compher
1st round selection from 2015
1st round selection from 2015
Myers
Stafford
Armia
Lemeuix
probably others I am forgetting.

Say Grigorenko and Staffrord walk away you still have Myers, Zadorov, Compher, Armia and Lemuix chomping at the bit (theoretically).

Who knows who they would have selected in those picks and where they would be now also.

None of this matters.
- thatsapickle

My only question is -

Who would hold the after practice, practices that have worked out so well for this team??

My only question is -

Who would hold the after practice, practices that have worked out so well for this team??
- sbroads24

Legwand? Gionta? Tavares? Unicorn?

He had expectations with us. I never said he didn't. That doesn't change what he is today.
- sbroads24

It also puts to lie the contention that all of the picks Murray "wasted" were "wasted."

We'd still have (possibly/probably):

Grigorenko
Zadorov
Compher
1st round selection from 2015
1st round selection from 2015
Myers
Stafford
Armia
Lemeuix
probably others I am forgetting.

Say Grigorenko and Staffrord walk away you still have Myers, Zadorov, Compher, Armia and Lemuix chomping at the bit (theoretically).

Who knows who they would have selected in those picks and where they would be now also.

None of this matters.
- thatsapickle

If I had chosen college in Maryland instead of Ohio, maybe I would have a more responsible attitude toward self medication.
If I had chosen NYC after grad school instead of Rochester, maybe I would be a millionaire.
If I had been nicer to my first mother in law, maybe I would still be married to my first wife.
If and buts are candy and nuts.

It also puts to lie the contention that all of the picks Murray "wasted" were "wasted."
- Der Kaiser

We are in 30th place. It's 2017.

- This will be the generic response from now on

Joel Armia!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL

We'd still have (possibly/probably):

Grigorenko
Zadorov
Compher
1st round selection from 2015
1st round selection from 2015
Myers
Stafford
Armia
Lemeuix
probably others I am forgetting.

Say Grigorenko and Staffrord walk away you still have Myers, Zadorov, Compher, Armia and Lemuix chomping at the bit (theoretically).

Who knows who they would have selected in those picks and where they would be now also.

None of this matters.
- thatsapickle

Seriously, who off this list is a difference maker.
Who is a winner?
When we traded stafford, armia and meyers, the jets got swept in the playoffs
The next year they were a lottery team and drafted laine. Moved up a few spots.
Now 20 games in they are good. 1/4 of the season. It's scheferlie, wheeler and heelebuck that are leading the team.
Colorado came in last place last season? Zadarov is a healthy scratch, girgerenko is in Russia and Jt coptner is a prospect still (I'm the nhl)
The 2 2015 picks aren't in the nhl consistently

We are in 30th place. It's 2017.

- This will be the generic response from now on
- sbroads24

One of the biggest lumps on this site was smart enough to write this last night:

Even with good luck and a good prospect base it takes 5 years to complete a successful rebuild ( Quebec/Colorado, Penguins) or a decade of being pretty bad ( LA, Toronto, Chicago), especially if you rely on the draft to fill out the 10 players core ( I think the average team drafts 1.5 players that end up being key on average per year. So to add the remaining players to compliment (THE INITIAL EXISTING CORE) it would reasonably take 4 more years of good drafting and a couple years on top of that to allow for development.

This will be a generic response from now on, and will be shorthanded as "The Potato 5/10 Wisdom."

Seriously, who off this list is a difference maker.
Who is a winner?
When we traded stafford, armia and meyers, the jets got swept in the playoffs
The next year they were a lottery team and drafted laine. Moved up a few spots.
Now 20 games in they are good. 1/4 of the season. It's scheferlie, wheeler and heelebuck that are leading the team.
Colorado came in last place last season? Zadarov is a healthy scratch, girgerenko is in Russia and Jt coptner is a prospect still (I'm the nhl)
The 2 2015 picks aren't in the nhl consistently
- Boss34

Could our team be significantly worse?

That was my point. They are 1 point ahead of dead last in the NHL.

One of the biggest lumps on this site was smart enough to write this last night:

Even with good luck and a good prospect base it takes 5 years to complete a successful rebuild ( Quebec/Colorado, Penguins) or a decade of being pretty bad ( LA, Toronto, Chicago), especially if you rely on the draft to fill out the 10 players core ( I think the average team drafts 1.5 players that end up being key on average per year. So to add the remaining players to compliment (THE INITIAL EXISTING CORE) it would reasonably take 4 more years of good drafting and a couple years on top of that to allow for development.

This will be a generic response from now on, and will be shorthanded as "The Potato 5/10 Wisdom."
- Der Kaiser

I'm a, couch, potato.

Seriously, who off this list is a difference maker.
Who is a winner?
When we traded stafford, armia and meyers, the jets got swept in the playoffs
The next year they were a lottery team and drafted laine. Moved up a few spots.
Now 20 games in they are good. 1/4 of the season. It's scheferlie, wheeler and heelebuck that are leading the team.
Colorado came in last place last season? Zadarov is a healthy scratch, girgerenko is in Russia and Jt coptner is a prospect still (I'm the nhl)
The 2 2015 picks aren't in the nhl consistently
- Boss34

What the f*** are the playoffs?

Sincerely,

We are in 30th place. It's 2017

Could our team be significantly worse?

That was my point. They are 1 point ahead of dead last in the NHL.
- thatsapickle

Yes.

We could have the whole rebuild to undertake, instead of being halfway (or more) there.

Yes.

We could have the whole rebuild to undertake, instead of being halfway (or more) there.
- Der Kaiser

i don't know what the argument here is but doesn't it say a lot that we've built half way and the results are the same as if we hadn't built at all?

Yes.

We could have the whole rebuild to undertake, instead of being halfway (or more) there.
- Der Kaiser

We are in 30th place. It's 2017

Yes.

We could have the whole rebuild to undertake, instead of being halfway (or more) there.
- Der Kaiser

That's true.

Thanks, GMTM.

Is the only thing that GMTM did correctly is the one thing anyone could have done?

We are in 30th place. It's 2017.

- This will be the generic response from now on
- sbroads24

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Seriously, who off this list is a difference maker.
Who is a winner?
When we traded stafford, armia and meyers, the jets got swept in the playoffs
The next year they were a lottery team and drafted laine. Moved up a few spots.
Now 20 games in they are good. 1/4 of the season. It's scheferlie, wheeler and heelebuck that are leading the team.
Colorado came in last place last season? Zadarov is a healthy scratch, girgerenko is in Russia and Jt coptner is a prospect still (I'm the nhl)
The 2 2015 picks aren't in the nhl consistently
- Boss34

EXACTLY, the question that needs to be asked, why have we been so bad drafting and developing players? Name one player that was drafted by us,signed by us, that you say I want him on our team. We drafted a slow,weak player in sam reinhart,instead of leon Draisatl. Over the years Detroit was always picking near to last and they always drafted better then us.we have had incompetent people in charge from almost the beginning. It is no coincidence that the only place scotty Bowman never won is Buffalo. We are cursed. We hire a gm in jason botterill(he might be good) but a guy who was forced to retire because of concussions. Honestly,there was no better candidate in the world then a guy who has had multiple concussions. Mike Babcock and lou lamierello are smart and they turned the leafs around instantly. Go back and look at all of your comments the leafs were in a sad situation and the sabres will be alot better,alot faster. When you have dumb people in charge,this is where you end up.

That's true.

Thanks, GMTM.

Is the only thing that GMTM did correctly is the one thing anyone could have done?
- thatsapickle

I know I can go to a car dealership, and offer them more $$ than what they are asking for.

So, yes.

Could our team be significantly worse?

That was my point. They are 1 point ahead of dead last in the NHL.
- thatsapickle

That's a good point, but really how much better would the sabres be with this group of guys. At least kane and ror have trade value. Or on this board "great" trade value

I know I can go to a car dealership, and offer them more $$ than what they are asking for.

So, yes.
- sbroads24

I see you have this vehicle listed for a modest $5,000.

I would like to pay you $15,000 for this fine piece of mechanical genius.

That's a good point, but really how much better would the sabres be with this group of guys. At least kane and ror have trade value. Or on this board "great" trade value
- Boss34

But the argument will then shift to what can you get for those players.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. We are still in 30th place.