http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-20-stages-realizing-nhl-team-terrible/

I think some of us get through these stages a lot quicker than others.
- buffalofan19

Stage 19: The meaningless win streak just to spite you

Of course.

Why?

to have more reason to whine and moan?

I'd like to start making calculated moves in some direction.

We do not have to be this bad, for this long.
- thatsapickle

I think it’s smarter to start a new core then making trades that will make us average at best

Just let it burn and start over

I think it’s smarter to start a new core then making trades that will make us average at best

Just let it burn and start over
- gerbe75pts

Can't do it imo. The fans have lost the stomach for rebuilding. If there isn't significant progress next year, it's going to get 2014 Edmonton ugly at the KBC

Not until you hit the squat rack and start doing some deads to get rid of those (frank)ing chicken legs.
- Wetbandit1

Maybe some day you will Witness what a Greek god looks like

Can't do it imo. The fans have lost the stomach for rebuilding. If there isn't significant progress next year, it's going to get 2014 Edmonton ugly at the KBC
- jcragcrumple

Who cares what the fans think it’s about long term success

I would rather suck for 2 more rebuild right and become the blue jackets or Lightning then be just average and a wildcard team for foreseeable future

I think it’s smarter to start a new core then making trades that will make us average at best

Just let it burn and start over
- gerbe75pts

Well the Sabres ultimate success or failure is gonna depend on Jack, Mittelstadt, Guhle, etc etc etc

So for me,
I’d rather have Kane & O’Reilly to help them out
Trading those guys only makes sense if we can get back “core” pieces
If we are just trading Kane for a guy that’ll end up on the 3rd line & a 2nd pair defenseman, then it doesn’t make sense to me

If we can get a legit top defenseman prospect...
then ok, that’s a kind of trade I could agree with

It all depends what we can get back

Nihilist Arby's‏
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Everything dies. No one wins. Chicken wings are for losers and Buffalo is hell on earth.

Pls enjoy arbys and our newly acquired affiliates

Well the Sabres ultimate success or failure is gonna depend on Jack, Mittelstadt, Guhle, etc etc etc

So for me,
I’d rather have Kane & O’Reilly to help them out
Trading those guys only makes sense if we can get back “core” pieces
If we are just trading Kane for a guy that’ll end up on the 3rd line & a 2nd pair defenseman, then it doesn’t make sense to me

If we can get a legit top defenseman prospect...
then ok, that’s a kind of trade I could agree with

It all depends what we can get back
- jdfitz77

I understand why you'd want them here but especially in Kane's case that isn't the only reason to move him

1) you're not getting a core piece back for a pending UFA and the odds of getting a high end D prospect are pretty slim too. Not unless the deal is with Chiarelli or TM

2) Trading these guys makes complete sense if you don't like the value they bring on their current deals or future deals. You have to look at the bigger picture and the whole story, not just stats piled up on a bad team in a contract year.

Trading either of them has nothing to do with what you're getting back. It's about what you're already getting. If you don't like what they're bringing for the money you're spending then you should look to move on (regardless of the cap!!).

fwiw i think the value on ROR is still good despite what he's being paid and may even go up if he's shifted to say Jack's wing.

I understand why you'd want them here but especially in Kane's case that isn't the only reason to move him

1) you're not getting a core piece back for a pending UFA and the odds of getting a high end D prospect are pretty slim too. Not unless the deal is with Chiarelli or TM

2) Trading these guys makes complete sense if you don't like the value they bring on their current deals or future deals. You have to look at the bigger picture and the whole story, not just stats piled up on a bad team in a contract year.

Trading either of them has nothing to do with what you're getting back. It's about what you're already getting. If you don't like what they're bringing for the money you're spending then you should look to move on (regardless of the cap!!).

fwiw i think the value on ROR is still good despite what he's being paid and may even go up if he's shifted to say Jack's wing.
- Sabresfan-365

Ok, I can agree with that
I happen to like what Kane & O’Reilly bring more than some others on here
So I guess that’s where the major differing in opinion comes in

I get the idea of having an extra 7mil (or whatever) in Cap space...
but we eventually need to use that on the right player

I think that’s Kane in this case
But I get that some don’t like him as much as I do
And I think he will be harder to replace than some seem to think
I love the way he plays

Ok, I can agree with that
I happen to like what Kane & O’Reilly bring more than some others on here
So I guess that’s where the major differing in opinion comes in

I get the idea of having an extra 7mil (or whatever) in Cap space...
but we eventually need to use that on the right player

I think that’s Kane in this case
But I get that some don’t like him as much as I do
And I think he will be harder to replace than some seem to think
I love the way he plays
- jdfitz77

One simple way I look at it (after looking through both of their numbers)

As the team gets better and ROR sees less time, his numbers will get better(i.e less d-zone responsibilities, time on the wing, less toi)

But as the team gets better and Kane sees less ice time, his numbers will drop hard. His goal scoring is often mistaken as sniper prowess but he's a volume player plain and simple. And what happens when you take opportunities away from a volume guy?

Thats the major difference between a goal scorer like JVR and Kane. JVR used to see the same ATOI as Kane when the leafs were bad, now he's sees something like 6 mins less a night but is scoring at the same rate. Far more efficient scorer than kane.

Maybe some day you will Witness what a Greek god looks like
- gerbe75pts

One simple way I look at it (after looking through both of their numbers)

As the team gets better and ROR sees less time, his numbers will get better(i.e less d-zone responsibilities, time on the wing, less toi)

But as the team gets better and Kane sees less ice time, his numbers will drop hard. His goal scoring is often mistaken as sniper prowess but he's a volume player plain and simple. And what happens when you take opportunities away from a volume guy?

Thats the major difference between a goal scorer like JVR and Kane. JVR used to see the same ATOI as Kane when the leafs were bad, now he's sees something like 6 mins less a night but is scoring at the same rate. Far more efficient scorer than kane.
- Sabresfan-365

Sure, but the Leafs are actually good now, and score way more goals than they did when JvR was getting 6 more minutes a night, so in your world what's to stop Kane from doing the same? JvR's SH% is also 5 points higher than his career average.

Maybe some day you will Witness what a Greek god looks like
- gerbe75pts

lol, and who would that be?

Sure, but the Leafs are actually good now, and score way more goals than they did when JvR was getting 6 more minutes a night, so in your world what's to stop Kane from doing the same? JvR's SH% is also 5 points higher than his career average.
- Wetbandit1

Because Kane's career avg is 3% less and this year has taken about 40-50 more shot attempts 5v5

If we're using just the eye test though, he often tries to create his own shot and takes so many from just everywhere

One simple way I look at it (after looking through both of their numbers)

As the team gets better and ROR sees less time, his numbers will get better(i.e less d-zone responsibilities, time on the wing, less toi)

But as the team gets better and Kane sees less ice time, his numbers will drop hard. His goal scoring is often mistaken as sniper prowess but he's a volume player plain and simple. And what happens when you take opportunities away from a volume guy?

Thats the major difference between a goal scorer like JVR and Kane. JVR used to see the same ATOI as Kane when the leafs were bad, now he's sees something like 6 mins less a night but is scoring at the same rate. Far more efficient scorer than kane.
- Sabresfan-365

First...
idk that your assumption of Kane’s stats dropping hard is accurate
Only time will tell there

Regardless of what specific stats Kane may or may not put up,
this is the way I’m thinking of it...

Keeping Kane, means that Nylander (for example) could be kept on the 3rd line, instead of needing him to move up & be productive on the 1st

So when building our team & looking at the future, what scenario gives us the most production...

A) Kane on the 1st & Nylander on the 3rd
or
B) Nylander on the 1st & player X (Baptiste, Rodrigues, etc) on the 3rd

I’m going with “A”
Which I think u would agree with

I think the question then becomes...
is whatever we have to pay Kane worth the extra production from scenario A

That’s tough to say
I could see it reasonably argued either way

For me though...
since we will have the Cap Room imo,
My thought process would be that we’ve gotta spend the $$$ somewhere
So I’d keep Kane

Also,
it lets the young kids ease into the NHL instead of needing them to produce at a high rate right away
That’s why the Oilers & Islanders struggles in their rebuilds imo
They didn’t have enough help for their young talent

First...
idk that your assumption of Kane’s stats dropping hard is accurate
Only time will tell there

Regardless of what specific stats Kane may or may not put up,
this is the way I’m thinking of it...

Keeping Kane, means that Nylander (for example) could be kept on the 3rd line, instead of needing him to move up & be productive on the 1st

So when building our team & looking at the future, what scenario gives us the most production...

A) Kane on the 1st & Nylander on the 3rd
or
B) Nylander on the 1st & player X (Baptiste, Rodrigues, etc) on the 3rd

I’m going with “A”
Which I think u would agree with

I think the question then becomes...
I’d whatever we have to pay Kane worth the extra production from scenario A

That’s tough to say
I could see it reasonably argued either way

For me though...
since we will have the Cap Room imo,
My thought process would be that we’ve gotta spend the $$$ somewhere
So I’d keep Kane

Also,
it lets the young kids ease into the NHL instead of needing them to produce at a high rate right away
That’s why the Oilers & Islanders struggles in their rebuilds imo
They didn’t have enough help for their young talent
- jdfitz77

I don't think that it has to be a) or b) though

I don't think that it has to be a) or b) though
- Sabresfan-365

Then what’s scenario “c” that u could see play out?

Because Kane's career avg is 3% less and this year has taken about 40-50 more shot attempts 5v5

If we're using just the eye test though, he often tries to create his own shot and takes so many from just everywhere
- Sabresfan-365

I'm not using this year at all as a reason to sign Kane. He did just fine last year. And the year before he still managed to get 20 goals despite missing time, coming off of major surgery and not playing for 10 months, a new team/coach/system.

I expect Kane is a 25 goal guy with seasons where he'll be better than that, and unless he misses significant time I don't see him scoring less than 20.

It's just the fact that as soon as we get rid of him we'll be looking to acquire a guy like him. None of the kids coming up bring what he brings.

I'm not using this year at all as a reason to sign Kane. He did just fine last year. And the year before he still managed to get 20 goals despite missing time, coming off of major surgery and not playing for 10 months, a new team/coach/system.

I expect Kane is a 25 goal guy with seasons where he'll be better than that, and unless he misses significant time I don't see him scoring less than 20.

It's just the fact that as soon as we get rid of him we'll be looking to acquire a guy like him. None of the kids coming up bring what he brings.
- Wetbandit1

Yep...
and replacing him by signing JvR or Neal or whoever is uncertain at best,
probably unlikely

Eli out in NY.

Eli out in NY.
- Wetbandit1

I saw
What morons

It’s not like they have a shot at the playoffs
And they can’t possibly think Geno could be the future, do they?

Eli has won them 2 Super Bowls
This is ridiculous
He deserves to be treated better

I saw
What morons

It’s not like they have a shot at the playoffs
And they can’t possibly think Geno could be the future, do they?

Eli has won them 2 Super Bowls
This is ridiculous
He deserves to be treated better
- jdfitz77

I'd take him for a year(he has an out after next year) so whoever we take can get a year to get his bearings.

I'd take him for a year(he has an out after next year) so whoever we take can get a year to get his bearings.
- Wetbandit1

I’d be cool with that
Giants should’ve just traded him at the deadline though