If we draft poorly yes I would want the scouting team and head of scouting fired. I know Pryor is also now assistant gm. A gm is measured by hiring coaches, recalling players, trades and free agency signings/ contract negotiations. His trades have been some good some bad. His free agency while I know he wasn't going after big names has been poor. His contract negotiations seem like we overpaid on some and underpaid on others so he's so so. His coach hire is an absolute fail. And currently I don't agree with his roster decisions over the past 2 years. So yes I'd say hextall has a lot to answer to right now. I think Pryor is going to get a gm job in the next few years and it will absolutely weaken our franchise
- Tfaehner

So fire the scouts and head of scouting and give the GM a pass if they draft poorly?

And that guy was coined as a future top pair d just 3 years ago.
- landros 2

It doesn't take long for stock to drop. He has shown glimpses of being a solid 2nd pairing for Van but most of the games, he's a 3rd pairing. Good AHL numbers. Only 23 years old.

Look at Laughton for you guys. Sounds as if he is a fringe 4th liner.
Next year Morin and Hagg will be in the same realm as Pouliot. 23 years old and not doing as well as they were projected.

How dare you pointing out fallacy.

Not allowed.
- Lip_Out

"Oh, is that a gal I see? No! It's just a phallus, see!"

I feel the same, but a few folks around here, well probably just one, feel he is the 2nd coming of Scotty Bowman and must not be questioned.
- BiggE

That's wrong. I'm on record stating that the coach should be criticized because his team has lost 10 games in a row. I've also stated that he should be given the remainder of the season to turn things around or he should be replaced.

That's wrong. I'm on record stating that the coach should be criticized because his team has lost 10 games in a row. I've also stated that he should be given the remainder of the season to turn things around or he should be replaced.
- MJL

That's wrong. I'm on record stating that the coach should be criticized because his team has lost 10 games in a row. I've also stated that he should be given the remainder of the season to turn things around or he should be replaced.
- MJL

With your line up. Coach and GM should be fired.

It doesn't take long for stock to drop. He has shown glimpses of being a solid 2nd pairing for Van but most of the games, he's a 3rd pairing. Good AHL numbers. Only 23 years old.

Look at Laughton for you guys. Sounds as if he is a fringe 4th liner.
Next year Morin and Hagg will be in the same realm as Pouliot. 23 years old and not doing as well as they were projected.
- manvanfan

Hagg is doing just fine and is showing plenty of signs that he is going to be a solid NHL defenseman. He's just experiencing the normal growing pains of a rookie NHL defenseman. Morin's development is taking longer than hoped but it was known that he would be a project. If the makeup of the Flyers current defense was different in terms of experience, he might already be a regular in the NHL.

That's wrong. I'm on record stating that the coach should be criticized because his team has lost 10 games in a row. I've also stated that he should be given the remainder of the season to turn things around or he should be replaced.
- MJL

What makes you think my post was about you? That's quite presumptuous on your part.

[quote=Lip_Out]

It doesn't take long for stock to drop. He has shown glimpses of being a solid 2nd pairing for Van but most of the games, he's a 3rd pairing. Good AHL numbers. Only 23 years old.

Look at Laughton for you guys. Sounds as if he is a fringe 4th liner.
Next year Morin and Hagg will be in the same realm as Pouliot. 23 years old and not doing as well as they were projected.
- manvanfan

Good comparison.....with Laughton. I always thought there was more there. But he’s settling into his 4th line role. I wonder if that’s the ceiling?

You're on point here in my opinion. There are a lot of young players who are trying to find their way in the league here. Add in some veteran players who are struggling also and it's not a good mix. Hakstol deserves his share of the blame like any coach should get but nitpicking minor stuff that is not at the top of the reasons for the team struggles is ridiculous. Some don't see that and need to focus on Dale Weise.
- MJL

I don't think asking for things to get shuffled and properly using the coaches challenge is nitpicking.

I personally don't put Weise or Lehtera on the shoulders of Hakstol. I don't like a single free agent Hextall has brought in. Hextall has been hit or miss on trades so far.

What makes you think my post was about you? That's quite presumptuous on your part.
- BiggE

Presumptuous sure, but correct huh?

I’ve seen you make this statement many times. I’m not sure what you all are arguing about. This team is bad. It has some good players, but for whatever reason it isn’t working. Building a good hockey team is alchemy. Who knows why some players work here and not there. I don’t interpret your support of the moves the coach has made as your saying he is blameless. I, like you, cannot get too worked up over his choice of benching Leier and playing Weise. I just don’t see it making a hell of a lot of difference. That being said I don’t think he’s done anything to earn my trust. I see no evidence that he’s an original thinker, outstanding at developing young talent or a great motivator.
- Dkos

I feel you.

I'm not calling for Hakstol's head. I don't think it's the right move at this point. If they continue to a top 5 pick, then yeah, I think it would be a good time to really start looking at other options in the offseason.

That being said, his questionable lineup decisions which seem to occur on a weekly basis are legitimate enough, especially 2 and a half seasons of them, for me to not call those on the "let's move on" side a knee jerk reaction or anything like that. I agree that he hasn't shown me he's a good at developing young talent, in fact, you could reasonably point at Konecny as evidence against it. As far as a great motivator, he hasn't shown me anything. I'm not in the locker room, but isn't it reasonable to think a great motivator would have had his team come out running through a wall in a game like yesterday, at 0-5-4 after 3 days' rest?

I concede both 1) this team isn't great and2) he's consistently making poor lineup choices (G-Coots-Jake notwithstanding), in my opinion, along with concern about young talent development and motivation. But, then I remember the team wasn't even supposed to be good this season...so...that's why I don't think it's the right move yet. It kind of makes me go in a circle.

To put it another way, I'm not sure a different coach gives this team the 10 more points they need to compete for a playoff spot with this group *shrugs*

I feel the same, but a few folks around here, well probably just one, feel he is the 2nd coming of Scotty Bowman and must not be questioned.
- BiggE

Fun fact....Scotty has plate in his head, that players used to make fun of him behind his back when he first started coaching.

Fun fact....Scotty has plate in his head, that players used to make fun of him behind his back when he first started coaching.

- landros 2

Hm, I wonder he thought about that... Guess we can't assume though. He was the coach and all.

I feel you.

I'm not calling for Hakstol's head. I don't think it's the right move at this point. If they continue to a top 5 pick, then yeah, I think it would be a good time to really start looking at other options in the offseason.

That being said, his questionable lineup decisions which seem to occur on a weekly basis are legitimate enough, especially 2 and a half seasons of them, for me to not call those on the "let's move on" side a knee jerk reaction or anything like that. I agree that he hasn't shown me he's a good at developing young talent, in fact, you could reasonably point at Konecny as evidence against it. As far as a great motivator, he hasn't shown me anything. I'm not in the locker room, but isn't it reasonable to think a great motivator would have had his team come out running through a wall in a game like yesterday, at 0-5-4 after 3 days' rest?

I concede both 1) this team isn't great and2) he's consistently making poor lineup choices (G-Coots-Jake notwithstanding), in my opinion, along with concern about young talent development and motivation. But, then I remember the team wasn't even supposed to be good this season...so...that's why I don't think it's the right move yet. It kind of makes me go in a circle.

To put it another way, I'm not sure a different coach gives this team the 10 more points they need to compete for a playoff spot with this group *shrugs*
- Giroux_Is_God

Pointing at Konecny as poor evidence is a bad example to use to show that Hakstol is a poor developer of talent. Konecny came into the league as a 19 year old and is still only 20 years old. It takes time for players like him to develop their NHL game and the rate of development he is taking is not uncommon.
The players not being motivated is on the players and the leadership of the team and not the coach in my opinion.

So fire the scouts and head of scouting and give the GM a pass if they draft poorly?
- MJL

Yes I don't fire the president of operations if one division is operating poorly. You fire that team. You failed to address all the facets I consider hextall direct responsibe and how he's done at them. I think when Pryor does eventually get his recognition you'll see how valuable he was.

If they go out west and go 0-3-0 on this upcoming trip and lose each game by 2+ goals, is Hak still coaching the Flyers when they return to action on December 12th?
- BiggE

I'd give it a solid 60% chance of firing at that point, to be honest.

But like I said in another post. I just wouldn't be surprised if he sticks around for the entirety of the season. For better or worse. And honestly I wouldn't yell and scream about it.

Now, if they stick with him through the offeason, after a top 5 pick, and have 30 points by December, see ya

Pointing at Konecny as poor evidence is a bad example to use to show that Hakstol is a poor developer of talent. Konecny came into the league as a 19 year old and is still only 20 years old. It takes time for players like him to develop their NHL game and the rate of development he is taking is not uncommon.
The players not being motivated is on the players and the leadership of the team and not the coach in my opinion.
- MJL

I could not disagree with this more. It's a key part of a coaches job to have the players ready to compete.

Hm, I wonder he thought about that... Guess we can't assume though. He was the coach and all.
- Lip_Out

I didn’t think of that .

Good comparison.....with Laughton. I always thought there was more there. But he’s settling into his 4th line role. I wonder if that’s the ceiling?
- landros 2

Scott Laughton is very similar to Brendan Gaunce for Van. Good, Steady numbers in junior. I actually remember liking Laughton in that draft. I look back and realize now that there really wasn't any upside to their games. Crazy enough in that 2012 draft year Laughton is 34th in scoring and Gaunce is 60th. They will probably only ever be good 4th liners in the future. In that 2012 draft there is 180 players that are still worse then Laughton 5 years later.

I'd give it a solid 60% chance of firing at that point, to be honest.

But like I said in another post. I just wouldn't be surprised if he sticks around for the entirety of the season. For better or worse. And honestly I wouldn't yell and scream about it.

Now, if they stick with him through the offeason, after a top 5 pick, and have 30 points by December, see ya
- Giroux_Is_God

This season is pretty much toast anyway so yeah, let him finish the year. However, if they finish with a record in the bottom 5-8 or so of the league, I want him gone. No need to wait any longer at that point.

I could not disagree with this more. It's a key part of a coaches job to have the players ready to compete.
- hereticpride

Ready to compete and to have a game plan. Konecny got no ice time in the third because "he had to account for the Bergeron line" And rolled a top 9 and didn't use the 4th line. You're telling me before playing Boston you didn't have a plan for the Bergeron line? Their top line !? I promise you every team who plays us has a plan for our top line.

This season is pretty much toast anyway so yeah, let him finish the year. However, if they finish with a record in the bottom 5-8 or so of the league, I want him gone. No need to wait any longer at that point.
- BiggE

Gotta agree.

Like I said I totally get why some people are gung-ho about getting rid of him. I'm just not so gung-ho yet.

Yes I don't fire the president of operations if one division is operating poorly. You fire that team. You failed to address all the facets I consider hextall direct responsibe and how he's done at them. I think when Pryor does eventually get his recognition you'll see how valuable he was.
- Tfaehner

No I didn't fail at anything. I just think there is a contradiction here in that you want to diminish the role of Hextall in the success of building a strong prospect base and want to give most of the credit to Pryor and his staff.

So lets move on to trades and free agency. You do know that GM's have staff that scouts professional hockey players on other team also correct? For example, Dave Brown is the Head Pro Scout and there are 3 Pro Scouts under Brown in the Flyers player personnel department. So any successes or failures in trades and free agent signings are on them and not Hextall, correct?