I just love how T.O fans have come out in groves the last few years, talking crap. Fact is, your team did the same thing the Sabres did, only difference when you tanked it worked, you got Matthews we did not get McDavid. ECHL is going to be a very good player in this league for a long time. take over player, prob not, but very good. He needs to grow up a bit and lead, that comes with time..
- hehateme

There is some revisionist history here. The Leafs traded two players who were thought to have been a negative influence on and off the ice. Kessel and Phaneuf. They kept their core. Kadri, Rielly, JVR, Bokak, Komorov. They have drafted and developed very well over the last 4-5 years. They bought in three hall of famers to run the club and have changed their losing culture.

The Sabres on the other hand, gutted their team. Traded good healthy players for picks and futures. Heck they even traded Myers and Stafford for Evander Kane then immediately put him on the IR. Ultimately, GMTM traded too much away for too little in return. He tried to fast track the rebuild by being aggressive in free agency and it went south. Overpaying for the likes of Okposo, ROR and Moulson. The Sabres have not drafted and developed well over the past 4-5-6 years. Pegula continues to hire inexperienced hockey people to manage and coach. The culture of losing remains. There is no end in sight.

Keep on telling yourself it all comes down to luck. It doesn't

Clearly you don’t understand OT Losses or Shootout Losses
- Jammerz04

Clearly, you don't understand English, or maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. I said the Flyers were winless in their last 10. It doesn't matter worth much of a da*n about their OT losses, or shootout losses. I did not say they were pointless. The fact remains: The Flyers were winless, NOT pointless, in their last 10.

I just love how T.O fans have come out in groves the last few years, talking crap. Fact is, your team did the same thing the Sabres did, only difference when you tanked it worked, you got Matthews we did not get McDavid. ECHL is going to be a very good player in this league for a long time. take over player, prob not, but very good. He needs to grow up a bit and lead, that comes with time..
- hehateme

What does the fact that both teams tanked have anything to do with this conversation? Does me being a leaf fan change any of the facts posted?

As for Jack being a very good player. I'll agree he will be a very good player. Just like Kessel was a very good player for the leafs. Ultimately, good teams aren't built around very good players that are making $10 million a season.

What does the fact that both teams tanked have anything to do with this conversation? Does me being a leaf fan change any of the facts posted?

As for Jack being a very good player. I'll agree he will be a very good player. Just like Kessel was a very good player for the leafs. Ultimately, good teams aren't built around very good players that are making $10 million a season.
- VT001

JFC ECHL is in his 3rd year of Professional Hockey.. Give the guy a chance will ya. he has played on a horrible team all 3 years.

I agree, the Sabres problems are rooted very deep. We have been a complete Dumpster fire when it comes to the management of our team. We can't draft and develop worth a crap and have been doing that for years... I give T.O credit, you hired the right people to run the team, drafted well and got a special player in Matthews. I just get sick of other teams fan bashing ECHL, he is very young and only played 2 full season and is on his 3rd. He needs to grow up a bit, but I have no reason to believe he cant be a leader and the face of this franchise for years to come. Time will tell...

There is some revisionist history here. The Leafs traded two players who were thought to have been a negative influence on and off the ice. Kessel and Phaneuf. They kept their core. Kadri, Rielly, JVR, Bokak, Komorov. They have drafted and developed very well over the last 4-5 years. They bought in three hall of famers to run the club and have changed their losing culture.

The Sabres on the other hand, gutted their team. Traded good healthy players for picks and futures. Heck they even traded Myers and Stafford for Evander Kane then immediately put him on the IR. Ultimately, GMTM traded too much away for too little in return. He tried to fast track the rebuild by being aggressive in free agency and it went south. Overpaying for the likes of Okposo, ROR and Moulson. The Sabres have not drafted and developed well over the past 4-5-6 years. Pegula continues to hire inexperienced hockey people to manage and coach. The culture of losing remains. There is no end in sight.

Keep on telling yourself it all comes down to luck. It doesn't
- BernardShakey

Hind sight is 20/20 slick...

JFC ECHL is in his 3rd year of Professional Hockey.. Give the guy a chance will ya. he has played on a horrible team all 3 years.

I agree, the Sabres problems are rooted very deep. We have been a complete Dumpster fire when it comes to the management of our team. We can't draft and develop worth a crap and have been doing that for years... I give T.O credit, you hired the right people to run the team, drafted well and got a special player in Matthews. I just get sick of other teams fan bashing ECHL, he is very young and only played 2 full season and is on his 3rd. He needs to grow up a bit, but I have no reason to believe he cant be a leader and the face of this franchise for years to come. Time will tell...
- hehateme

Why do you keep referring to him as ECHL if you are trying to defend him?

Hind sight is 20/20 slick...
- hehateme

Whatever, Sparky. Just saying the the solid Leafs rebuild is the result of good people, doing their jobs well. Quite the opposite can be said about the Sabres.
Its too simple (and lazy) to say it was just luck. Even without Matthews, they would have drafted Laine, Keller, Tkachuk or one of the top D men available and their rebuild would still be miles ahead of the Sabres.

Why do you keep referring to him as ECHL if you are trying to defend him?
- VT001

My apologies, Eichel

Whatever, Sparky. Just saying the the solid Leafs rebuild is the result of good people, doing their jobs well. Quite the opposite can be said about the Sabres.
Its too simple (and lazy) to say it was just luck. Even without Matthews, they would have drafted Laine, Keller, Tkachuk or one of the top D men available and their rebuild would still be miles ahead of the Sabres.
- BernardShakey

I literally just said that in another post. The leafs have done a wonderful job of rebuilding and we are still a Dumpster fire.

Jack is -6 with only 1 point on he PP, so he is actually on the ice for more goals against then his line produces, shooting % below 10 and getting worse, plays 2 minutes more then Matthews, wins 40% of his faceoffs, and gives the puck away more then he wins it. But don't worry he isn't playing to his potential. Just ignore the fact he is in his 3rd year, has always been a negative player, never a high shooting % and getting worse year after year, has been garbage all 3 years in faceoffs, and has always had a higher give away then take away.

I don't think +/- is really a good measurement to base how a player is performing especially with this sabres team. They have given up 7 short handed goals and 7 empty netters. You would have to assume that Jack would have been on the ice for the majority of those, but hard to fault him in these goals that would show as a "-" on the scoresheet.

I don't think +/- is really a good measurement to base how a player is performing especially with this sabres team. They have given up 7 short handed goals and 7 empty netters. You would have to assume that Jack would have been on the ice for the majority of those, but hard to fault him in these goals that would show as a "-" on the scoresheet.
- adambuffalo

Ignore them, they don't watch the games so they reach to justify the "Jack is a bust" comment.

Plus minus isn't a good measure of talent. You can see the reaching from the quote though...talks about never having a shooting percentage above 10...his rookie year he was 10.1 and he's 9.7 overall. Grasping at straws is all.

For reference: Tyler Seguin -15 last year with a 8.6 S%. Guess he sucks too.

Ignore them, they don't watch the games so they reach to justify the "Jack is a bust" comment.

Plus minus isn't a good measure of talent. You can see the reaching from the quote though...talks about never having a shooting percentage above 10...his rookie year he was 10.1 and he's 9.7 overall. Grasping at straws is all.

For reference: Tyler Seguin -15 last year with a 8.6 S%. Guess he sucks too.
- RhinoFan

Why don't you remind everyone what place the Dallas starts finished last year with Seguin.

Also why don't you learn to read, no one said he never shot over 10%. He is currently below 10% is what was said. His career average is 9.7. This season he is shooting 9%, his rookie season he shot 10.1 followed by 9.6 and currently 9. That's what people call decreasing.

Also the response was to your fellow sabres fan that tried to compared Eichel to Matthews. So no one was grasping at straws to make Jack look bad. So those were his stats, everyone worse then Matthews.

Do I consider Jack a bust? No, he is a very good player. With that said, I never thought he was the generational talent that some people saying leading up to his draft. The problem with the Sabres isn't whether Jack will be a good player, it is whether you can build a team around a very good player that is making 10 million a season, because that is what the current management is task with. I don't think they can, not when you add ROR 7.5 million, and I don't think this management group will be able to do it.

There's no way that the Kings would ever trade for Matt Moulson. They tried the Teddy Purcell experiment last season and the Michael Cammalleri experiment this season, and they both failed miserably. No more blast from the past players please.

If Buffalo agrees to retain half salary and sends the Kings a high draft pick as compensation, then maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise, the Kings are just doing Buffalo and Moulson a solid so he can be close to family and provide some leadership to Ontario Reign youngsters.

Why don't you remind everyone what place the Dallas starts finished last year with Seguin.

Also why don't you learn to read, no one said he never shot over 10%. He is currently below 10% is what was said. His career average is 9.7. This season he is shooting 9%, his rookie season he shot 10.1 followed by 9.6 and currently 9. That's what people call decreasing.

Also the response was to your fellow sabres fan that tried to compared Eichel to Matthews. So no one was grasping at straws to make Jack look bad. So those were his stats, everyone worse then Matthews.

Do I consider Jack a bust? No, he is a very good player. With that said, I never thought he was the generational talent that some people saying leading up to his draft. The problem with the Sabres isn't whether Jack will be a good player, it is whether you can build a team around a very good player that is making 10 million a season, because that is what the current management is task with. I don't think they can, not when you add ROR 7.5 million, and I don't think this management group will be able to do it.
- VT001

yEEEEUUUUP

There's no way that the Kings would ever trade for Matt Moulson. They tried the Teddy Purcell experiment last season and the Michael Cammalleri experiment this season, and they both failed miserably. No more blast from the past players please.

If Buffalo agrees to retain half salary and sends the Kings a high draft pick as compensation, then maybe something could be worked out. Otherwise, the Kings are just doing Buffalo and Moulson a solid so he can be close to family and provide some leadership to Ontario Reign youngsters.
- tkecanuck341

Why even bother to justify Garth`s silly , one sided trade proposals. Moulson scored zero goals for the 2nd worst team in the league. He also makes 5M a year. The LA Kings have less than 1M in cap space. So the Kings would need to shed salary to add this zero goal scorer to their lineup. This may make sense in Garth`s world, but it does not make sense in the real world

I just love how T.O fans have come out in groves the last few years, talking crap. Fact is, your team did the same thing the Sabres did, only difference when you tanked it worked, you got Matthews we did not get McDavid. ECHL is going to be a very good player in this league for a long time. take over player, prob not, but very good. He needs to grow up a bit and lead, that comes with time..
- hehateme

Hope you like your very good player at 10 million a year.

Hope you like your very good player at 10 million a year.
- Cptmjl

We will, Thank you very much.

Why don't you remind everyone what place the Dallas starts finished last year with Seguin.

Also why don't you learn to read, no one said he never shot over 10%. He is currently below 10% is what was said. His career average is 9.7. This season he is shooting 9%, his rookie season he shot 10.1 followed by 9.6 and currently 9. That's what people call decreasing.

Also the response was to your fellow sabres fan that tried to compared Eichel to Matthews. So no one was grasping at straws to make Jack look bad. So those were his stats, everyone worse then Matthews.

Do I consider Jack a bust? No, he is a very good player. With that said, I never thought he was the generational talent that some people saying leading up to his draft. The problem with the Sabres isn't whether Jack will be a good player, it is whether you can build a team around a very good player that is making 10 million a season, because that is what the current management is task with. I don't think they can, not when you add ROR 7.5 million, and I don't think this management group will be able to do it.
- VT001

you should be a GM of a NHL team, you have it all figured out....

We will, Thank you very much.
- hehateme

Why don't you remind everyone what place the Dallas starts finished last year with Seguin.
- VT001

So he sucks?

you should be a GM of a NHL team, you have it all figured out....
- hehateme

He's the captain of his beer leagues team, it's pretty close.

Whatever, Sparky. Just saying the the solid Leafs rebuild is the result of good people, doing their jobs well. Quite the opposite can be said about the Sabres.
Its too simple (and lazy) to say it was just luck. Even without Matthews, they would have drafted Laine, Keller, Tkachuk or one of the top D men available and their rebuild would still be miles ahead of the Sabres.
- BernardShakey

This. It is very important for a franchise to have scouts /management to identify players that would fit well on their team/NHL. The only luck that Toronto had was to get number 1 for Matthews. Many scorned them for drafting Marner and he is a very very good player. In the past Toronto's drafting was not very good. It is now. Sabres fans we must accept this. Toronto fans can gloat..they have every right to.

This. It is very important for a franchise to have scouts /management to identify players that would fit well on their team/NHL. The only luck that Toronto had was to get number 1 for Matthews. Many scorned them for drafting Marner and he is a very very good player. In the past Toronto's drafting was not very good. It is now. Sabres fans we must accept this. Toronto fans can gloat..they have every right to.
- sabreadvocate1

I totally agree that they have every right to gloat, they have done a very solid job of rebuilding and are set up for a long bright future, I can only hope that the Sabres get their poop together and do the same, the problem I have with T.O fans is how easily they forget about there FA signing and over paying players over the years. David Clarkson, Jeff Finger, Hell they even gave Tim Connolly a 2 year 9 million dollar contract, But the Sabres are now stupid for doing it.

you should be a GM of a NHL team, you have it all figured out....
- hehateme

I wouldn't be very good. You'd be in last place, at the bottom of the league in GF and GA, and probably have a joke of a power play that allows almost as many short handed goals as the score.

On top of that I'll probably over pay a bunch of players as well.

He's the captain of his beer leagues team, it's pretty close.
- RhinoFan

If we comparing it to Sabres management it really isn't that far off. Can't get lower in the standings can you?