Ryan Wilson: Ignore the noise surrounding Kris Letang Ignore the noise surrounding Kris Letang

Letang was on pace for the 2nd most giveaways in league history

It's so hard to predict these types of players. Maybe Gonchar or someone gets through to him and he Lidstrom's the rest of his career. Or maybe not

While Kypreos indicating Letang could be traded means nothing, I think everyone knows the Pens are looking at a big time move and Letang is the most likely to be moved out of the big 4.

If they do make a huge move, I feel like it is going to be a 3 way deal with Buffalo in the mix. Botterill knows what both he and Rutherford want and could be a facilitator in a major deal. 3rd team... Edmonton? Dallas?

+/- is not the be all end all, but I don't think that cavalierly and arrogantly tossing it aside as Ryan likes to do makes for good analysis. Any stat only has meaning when you look at them in the overall context of all measures, whether it is possession, +/-, on ice save %, whatever....and by any measure, Letang is having a terrible season. His turnover margin is -28, which is pretty terrible and anyone actually simply watching the game can see that he is simply "off" (yes, I know that watching the game to evaluate a player is passe according to our faithful bloggers, lol). How hard is it just to say that?

Now I agree with him that the best case scenario for the Pens is that he plays his way out of whatever funk he is in. At some point, PDO will kick in and he pulls himself out of it, we hope. Crosby was in a similar funk 2 years ago. Lets hope Letang does the same.

Dismissing a rumor on a site with nonsensical click bait rumors. Great. And corsi without context is a useless stat.

"There's no logical basis for it. His value to the team far outweighs his market value, which is probably at an all-time low. The fact the Penguins won the Stanley Cup last year without Letang should not play into this either. The Penguins won because they were incredibly lucky."

Right RW, the Pens won 16 playoff games last year because they were LUCKY. Great analysis.

While Kypreos indicating Letang could be traded means nothing, I think everyone knows the Pens are looking at a big time move and Letang is the most likely to be moved out of the big 4.

If they do make a huge move, I feel like it is going to be a 3 way deal with Buffalo in the mix. Botterill knows what both he and Rutherford want and could be a facilitator in a major deal. 3rd team... Edmonton? Dallas?
- MacPatty

The only thing likely about Letang is that he remains a Penguin.

+/- is not the be all end all, but I don't think that cavalierly and arrogantly tossing it aside as Ryan likes to do makes for good analysis. Any stat only has meaning when you look at them in the overall context of all measures, whether it is possession, +/-, on ice save %, whatever....and by any measure, Letang is having a terrible season. His turnover margin is -28, which is pretty terrible and anyone actually simply watching the game can see that he is simply "off" (yes, I know that watching the game to evaluate a player is passe according to our faithful bloggers, lol). How hard is it just to say that?

Now I agree with him that the best case scenario for the Pens is that he plays his way out of whatever funk he is in. At some point, PDO will kick in and he pulls himself out of it, we hope. Crosby was in a similar funk 2 years ago. Lets hope Letang does the same.
- Emperor Filonius

Last year Brent Burns had a -100 on the turnover margin, Erik Karlsson had a -47. Brent Burns won the Norris last year.

The year before? Drew Doughty won the Norris with a -87 turnover margin.

Last year Brent Burns had a -100 on the turnover margin, Erik Karlsson had a -47. Brent Burns won the Norris last year.

The year before? Drew Doughty won the Norris with a -87 turnover margin.
- j.boyd919

But but... Letang is done. Don’t you watch? He’s clealry expendable and the Pens won the cup without him!

"There's no logical basis for it. His value to the team far outweighs his market value, which is probably at an all-time low. The fact the Penguins won the Stanley Cup last year without Letang should not play into this either. The Penguins won because they were incredibly lucky."

Right RW, the Pens won 16 playoff games last year because they were LUCKY. Great analysis.
- stevens87

Yeah, sometimes I think Ryan doesn't like the fact that the Pens won because what they did flew in face face of all the advanced stats that he hangs his hat on. Timely goals and great goaltending can still trump corsi, even in a tournament as long as the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Anyone who watched the Pens skate rings around the Rangers a few years ago but lose because Henrik stood on his head should know that. Possession is great, but scoring and denying goals is better.

Last year Brent Burns had a -100 on the turnover margin, Erik Karlsson had a -47. Brent Burns won the Norris last year.

The year before? Drew Doughty won the Norris with a -87 turnover margin.
- j.boyd919

Great, maybe they will give it to Letang this year, lol

Great, maybe they will give it to Letang this year, lol
- Emperor Filonius

My point was more that the turnovers aren't really a big deal. If you look at guys with high giveaways... it's almost always guys who ALWAYS have the puck on their twig. Karlsson, Burns, Letang, Subban, Doughty, etc. Usually the guys people consider the top Dmen in the league, it's because these guys try to make passes more often than just chipping it off the board and out. Yes some are REALLY bad and as RW pointed out, that's what most people remember, but as with most high skilled players, they are going to try to make plays more often than not.

Yeah, sometimes I think Ryan doesn't like the fact that the Pens won because what they did flew in face face of all the advanced stats that he hangs his hat on. Timely goals and great goaltending can still trump corsi, even in a tournament as long as the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Anyone who watched the Pens skate rings around the Rangers a few years ago but lose because Henrik stood on his head should know that. Possession is great, but scoring and denying goals is better.
- Emperor Filonius

While true that analytics doesn’t properly account for Star power, it’s a lot to expect the stars to shoot at like 30% on a consistent, year long basis. Last year our team had a very serious flaw that should have sunk us by round two if it wasn’t for Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Guentzel all going into hero mode at the same time and our goalies being rock solid. It’s very seldom that all of our big guns click at the same time and we were very fortunate it happened during he playoffs.

the pens have the 2nd most expensive d core in the league. i have no issue with letang or anyone else being traded away. but i cant see anyone taking on $7.5M for the next few years. i think the pens will keep letang for a lack of trading partner. he has a modified NTC. He has to supply a list of 18 teams he would accept a trade to.

no matter what, what is happening this year is not working. whether its because of the amount of games played in the last 2 years or not, the results are not there.

Yeah, sometimes I think Ryan doesn't like the fact that the Pens won because what they did flew in face face of all the advanced stats that he hangs his hat on. Timely goals and great goaltending can still trump corsi, even in a tournament as long as the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Anyone who watched the Pens skate rings around the Rangers a few years ago but lose because Henrik stood on his head should know that. Possession is great, but scoring and denying goals is better.

I think you've missed his point completely, he's saying that relying on the things you mentioned is not a good way for SUSTAINED success. In your example Henrik stopped everything, but look what happens to the Rangers team when Henrik has a rough stretch or doesn't stop everything. His point is that to rely on timely goals and godly goaltending all the time is not the best way to build a team. The Penguins currently suck.

I wouldn't say the Penguins won last year only because they were lucky. Luck is a large factor but I think it really came down to determination. Seemed like the game plan last year was that they were ok giving up a ton of shot attempts as long as they were from the outside. If anything I think it was a determined, persistent effort to play a really odd style of hockey. We had a lot of depth guys last year who most of the time wouldn't get beat 1 on 1. They would keep guys on the perimeter and wait for the opportunity to strike
The determination that we once had took a ton of effort and we just flat out aren't seeing it this year. I think we could overcome it with a 5v5 point driver like Kane

I think you've missed his point completely, he's saying that relying on the things you mentioned is not a good way for SUSTAINED success. In your example Henrik stopped everything, but look what happens to the Rangers team when Henrik has a rough stretch or doesn't stop everything. His point is that to rely on timely goals and godly goaltending all the time is not the best way to build a team. The Penguins currently suck.
- danktrees

I actually wholeheartedly agree with all of this. On a sustained basis, it is preferable to have the 2015-2016 model Penguins.

My point was mostly that I don't care for what the team last year accomplished as being basically dismissed as luck. That's borderline insulting to the guys that lifted the cup, as far as I'm concerned. What they did last year was remarkable. Each and every round felt like it was a genuine struggle, but they persevered and got it done. That should be acknowledged as more than luck.

And yes, for a lot of reasons, they aren't very good right now.

I'm afraid we've already seen Letang's best hockey, if we can trade him for young talent at position of need then you do the deal.

Letang was on pace for the 2nd most giveaways in league history
- Thorny

Yeah, I don't think it's entirely fair to point out that Letang has alot of ghastly turnovers and then complain about the goalies having a low on ice save percentage.

Is great goaltending now luck?

Does that mean poop goaltending is 'un'lucky?

Nièmi must have broken a few mirrors while moving house, poor bastard!

I'm afraid we've already seen Letang's best hockey, if we can trade him for young talent at position of need then you do the deal.
- Murphy_Dump

Said about Sidney Crosby in 2015.

I think you've missed his point completely, he's saying that relying on the things you mentioned is not a good way for SUSTAINED success. In your example Henrik stopped everything, but look what happens to the Rangers team when Henrik has a rough stretch or doesn't stop everything. His point is that to rely on timely goals and godly goaltending all the time is not the best way to build a team. The Penguins currently suck.
- danktrees

He said the win last season was luck, which isn't a recipe for sustained success. That is bull poop - the luck part about winning. These analytical followers just cannot accept kaos as it has no pattern or source, things happen because players make it happen. Extra effort is a factor - has analytics got data on effort? Speed of play with multiple options available - analytics? So they throw it all down to 'luck'. A player scores a lot through a period, then that dries up? That's luck - PDO, more goals on shots. Why is that lucky if a player (or team), is scoring more? It's an easy out on stats. Same with Corsi - just because a player is on the ice when a goal is scored he has either a positive or negative data point. But it all evens out after a long period if that player had no part in the play that scored? Now that's bull poop at its smelliest!

What's happened to the micro stats?

If we are talking about good goaltending as being luck - nearly every team this season has been lucky against the Pens. So if last seasons win was luck, this season must just be unlucky. The players should just 'trust the process'. The PDO or luck will return to its natural habitat. We shouldn't need trades because Reaves has just been unlucky, he WILL score his 10 goals this season!

Said about Sidney Crosby in 2015.
- Victoro311

As Ryan pointed out a couple of blogs ago, Tanger has been better recently. That link I posted last blog had a lot more stats (youre a stats guy ), on Letangs play, & they weren't all that bad, some were pretty good to be honest. The article was a show of support for him. Also has Shultz as the only positive player for a stat (can't remember which 1), sort of implying he's the only player that's going ok.

Now you know a lot better than me, but what are the most serious things Tanger needs to get right straight away? If he gets things going will that get the team going - which is the bigger question?

I'm afraid we've already seen Letang's best hockey, if we can trade him for young talent at position of need then you do the deal.
- Murphy_Dump

No