I think there is a difference.
Tankers want to be bad to get high picks for best possible players.
Draftists want as many picks as possible(not necessarily high picks) so better chane to get a good player.

Imagine is we had like 3 or 4 20-22 y/o players that were on the cusp of being ready that we could call up and send down instead of Chaput and company. Players that would be able to step in and replace a current bottom 6 and eventually a top 6 player that could then be sold for more picks after their spot gets taken.

It is wishful thinking, but that is what a Draftist wants. The ability to sell players for picks without weakening the team.

Tankers just want to sell players for picks no matter what.
- Retinalz

Nice take. Well stated. Like to add that want to be bad you mention is not innocent desire or hope they lose enough to get high picks. But purposeful execution. The principle core value to tanking is planning that outcome. Doing it on purpose not by result. The design of a team to flush a season or several seasons. Why they used the word tank for flushing. Literally emptying the toilet bowl.

But within the mythos and to seek cover not only have they grabbed draftist methods as their own, but put a symbol of a military vehicle a Tank. All to cover in myth that their strategy not only noble but powerful. It’s to dispel the anti-compete part of development within draftist allowances.

Oh well symatics eh? Like saying tanking is a tool not a methodology of strategy to follow. Tankers know building through the draft in the cap world is important. But the modern lotto has thrown a huge blow to their method to get that reward of the top pick. So high pick of 4-6 is considered now worth the risk of scuttling development. A reality no owner let alone team managers will actually follow through with anymore.

Anyway, they are too invested in the mythos and made up false symbol to yield. They hide the fact you can build through the draft without tanking. What a true draftist would acknowledge.

Gaudette tied for the lead in NCAA scoring

Gaudette tied for the lead in NCAA scoring
- Bettmanhatesus

Future 2LC

it gives you better odds of getting the top pick, but also guarantees the team a higher draft position in rounds 2-7. Drafting 34th is better than 43rd (and carries more value if you want to trade down and accumulate more picks)
- WhiteLie

Yes it’s always nice to have the higher pick throughout rounds to have more control of choice. But as we have seen there are tiers or groupings of talent and whatever the choice is what matters is the result. That result for each team only comes out by development and sometimes luck. So does it really make a huge difference within the tiers?

Haven’t we debunked the odds thing? As in more likely to drop then hold or climb in lotto results? The percentage weight on lotto position from 1-15 are so small that the reward isn’t worth flushing development. So why design to fail? How about a pure draftist approach on accumulating picks. Then, just concentrate on developing your team finish wherever that takes you and take your chances the lotto will reward you.

While we are talking NCAA:


GP G A PTS PIM +/-

27 Brady Tkachuk C 20 4 10 14 18 9
17 Dante Fabbro D 18 4 8 12 10 0

He's still young I guess. But 4 G in 20 GP.

Lol always saw you as a draftist from what you have posted. But you seem to be looking for cover twisting into conflating notions. You can build through the draft without tanking and there lies the rub of the difference. Even though the claim of the goals are the same one methodology isn’t necessary to reach it.

Oh well hope you get to watch the game it sounded like a dandy....
- Nuck4U

Of course you can build through the draft without tanking, every team does it every year in June. Some just do it better than others.

Tanking is a tool to get the best odds at the first overall pick, it's not a "method". A method is an overall process, to me, in rebuilding.

I have never been a proponent of expansion, but this time I am making an exception.
Hopefully we have a pretty good cupboard of players on roster and in Utica, so we can pay a draft pick or whatever to the new expansion team to take Loui off our hands.

lol my bad, yeah, what i meant was that the goal should be to try and be as competitive as possible each and every year.
- Nucker101

Seriously Mr. Positivity, that should be the objective of every team every bloody year, the difference is the talent of the players, some teams have it, some don’t, and the Canucks don’t. They have two good players, two aging vets, and a team of AHL talent.

Of course you can build through the draft without tanking, every team does it every year in June. Some just do it better than others.

Tanking is a tool to get the best odds at the first overall pick, it's not a "method". A method is an overall process, to me, in rebuilding.
- LeftCoaster

Good to conceede that and some have better scouting. But a draftist wouldn’t trade picks away. So those teams that trade their picks how are they building through the draft?

Also if tanking is just a tool why take the name? As for odds I refer you to the above posts on modern lotto.

I’ll say I get why you like tanking. It used to work and was worth the risk to development, business, and team identity. But the purposeful design to use now causes way too much harm for a likely missed reward. At the very least when executed for an entire season.

Good to conceede that and some have better scouting. But a draftist wouldn’t trade picks away. So those teams that trade their picks how are they building through the draft?

Also if tanking is just a tool why take the name? As for odds I refer you to the above posts on modern lotto.

I’ll say I get why you like it. It used to work and was worth the risk to development, business, and team identity. But the purposeful design to use now causes way too much harm for a likely missed reward.
- Nuck4U

I have been calling myself a draftist for 25 years now and never have I said that you can't or don't trade away a pick.
When necessary picks will be included in a trade, just not consecutive picks or year In year out losing picks.
It all depends on where you are in your chance at a cup.

Of course you can build through the draft without tanking, every team does it every year in June. Some just do it better than others.

Tanking is a tool to get the best odds at the first overall pick, it's not a "method". A method is an overall process, to me, in rebuilding.
- LeftCoaster

It really surprises me how people get caught up in labels, a few years back we used to come up with labels as a joke, and then it got a bit more serious, remember the circle jerkers .

The best outcome for the Canucks is to finish as low as they possibly can and reap the benefits of drafting higher. Yes we all know that there is a lottery, big fcuking deal, the higher the pick the better the chances, and in the subsequent rounds you get the better picks, fcuking no brainer.

well articulated

- Nucker101

Seriously Mr. Positivity, that should be the objective of every team every bloody year, the difference is the talent of the players, some teams have it, some don’t, and the Canucks don’t. They have two good players, two aging vets, and a team of AHL talent.
- Makita

Agree until last sentence. But if I break down the difference you may take it as parcing words so will just give the thumbs up.

Good to conceede that and some have better scouting. But a draftist wouldn’t trade picks away. So those teams that trade their picks how are they building through the draft?

Also if tanking is just a tool why take the name? As for odds I refer you to the above posts on modern lotto.

I’ll say I get why you like tanking. It used to work and was worth the risk to development, business, and team identity. But the purposeful design to use now causes way too much harm for a likely missed reward. At the very least when executed for an entire season.
- Nuck4U

You can build through the draft and compete at the same time. Tampa is building through the draft every year but they're still competing for a Cup.

I think you, and others, get muddled up in the lingo, the reality is you can be all things at the same time. Steve Yzerman believes in building through the draft, he's a draftist by definition, but he's also competing for a Cup because he's a good drafter, doesn't mean he stops being a draftist because he's now competing.

Tanking to me simply refers to going after the first overall pick.

Tanking does work, it gets you nearer to the first overall pick despite the new odds in play. Tanking at the TDL last year resulted in a second last finish, which meant we drafted no worse than 5th overall. Which meant we had better odds of selecting the best kids on earth before 26 other teams...guaranteed.

I have been calling myself a draftist for 25 years now and never have I said that you can't or don't trade away a pick.
When necessary picks will be included in a trade, just not consecutive picks or year In year out losing picks.
It all depends on where you are in your chance at a cup.
- Reubenkincade

That’s fine you seem flexible to employ different methodologies given the circumstances.

It really surprises me how people get caught up in labels, a few years back we used to come up with labels as a joke, and then it got a bit more serious, remember the circle jerkers .

The best outcome for the Canucks is to finish as low as they possibly can and reap the benefits of drafting higher. Yes we all know that there is a lottery, big fcuking deal, the higher the pick the better the chances, and in the subsequent rounds you get the better picks, fcuking no brainer.
- Makita

It is no different than when you are competing for a cup you sell picks òr prospects for the now, whereas a bad team sells the now for picks or prospects and the cycle continues.

It really surprises me how people get caught up in labels, a few years back we used to come up with labels as a joke, and then it got a bit more serious, remember the circle jerkers .

The best outcome for the Canucks is to finish as low as they possibly can and reap the benefits of drafting higher. Yes we all know that there is a lottery, big fcuking deal, the higher the pick the better the chances, and in the subsequent rounds you get the better picks, fcuking no brainer.
- Makita

Some people get it, some don't, it's really not that complicated.

Nice take. Well stated. Like to add that want to be bad you mention is not innocent desire or hope they lose enough to get high picks. But purposeful execution. The principle core value to tanking is planning that outcome. Doing it on purpose not by result. The design of a team to flush a season or several seasons. Why they used the word tank for flushing. Literally emptying the toilet bowl.

But within the mythos and to seek cover not only have they grabbed draftist methods as their own, but put a symbol of a military vehicle a Tank. All to cover in myth that their strategy not only noble but powerful. It’s to dispel the anti-compete part of development within draftist allowances.

Oh well symatics eh? Like saying tanking is a tool not a methodology of strategy to follow. Tankers know building through the draft in the cap world is important. But the modern lotto has thrown a huge blow to their method to get that reward of the top pick. So high pick of 4-6 is considered now worth the risk of scuttling development. A reality no owner let alone team managers will actually follow through with anymore.

Anyway, they are too invested in the mythos and made up false symbol to yield. They hide the fact you can build through the draft without tanking. What a true draftist would acknowledge.
- Nuck4U

You can build through the draft and compete at the same time. Tampa is building through the draft every year but they're still competing for a Cup.

I think you, and others, get muddled up in the lingo, the reality is you can be all things at the same time. Steve Yzerman believes in building through the draft, he's a draftist by definition, but he's also competing for a Cup because he's a good drafter, doesn't mean he stops being a draftist because he's now competing.

Tanking to me simply refers to going after the first overall pick.

Tanking does work, it gets you nearer to the first overall pick despite the new odds in play. Tanking at the TDL last year resulted in a second last finish, which meant we drafted no worse than 5th overall. Which meant we had better odds of selecting the best kids on earth before 26 other teams.
- LeftCoaster

So you need to explain how this is possible, I mean you can’t be competitive and still want to build through the draft.

And why wouldn’t you want your team that is terrible by all accounts except a possible Calder trophy winner get a better draft position.

So you need to explain how this is possible, I mean you can’t be competitive and still want to build through the draft.

And why wouldn’t you want your team that is terrible by all accounts except a possible Calder trophy winner get a better draft position.
- Makita

- Pres.cup

You can build through the draft and compete at the same time. Tampa is building through the draft every year but they're still competing for a Cup.

I think you, and others, get muddled up in the lingo, the reality is you can be all things at the same time. Steve Yzerman believes in building through the draft, he's a draftist by definition, but he's also competing for a Cup because he's a good drafter, doesn't mean he stops being a draftist because he's now competing.

Tanking to me simply refers to going after the first overall pick.

Tanking does work, it gets you nearer to the first overall pick despite the new odds in play. Tanking at the TDL last year resulted in a second last finish, which meant we drafted no worse than 5th overall. Which meant we had better odds of selecting the best kids on earth before 26 other teams.
- LeftCoaster

Yes can see the problem of identifying to a particular method. I think we all understand but differ on when and how to use these different approaches. Which is why GM’s don’t employ only one method as you pointed out. When it comes down to it they are all about building and competing making choices between which method to lean on in each part defines their success.

On Canuck finishes on a talent starved team injuries and lack of depth contributed to that as well as misplaced coaching. Don’t think it was by design but we have fun calling it a stealth tank. Just reality as Makita likes not mincing words the team sucked.

As for the methodology tanking( I know you called it a tool) working now (not just merely sucking and finishing low) will agree to disagree, high picks aside, on risk reward terms only. (believe you will appreciate the nuance of difference stated)

The true fans want the team to win games and do the best the team can with whatever draft picks they end up with. If Benning’s scouting eye is keen on a good young player available via trade then I’m 100% on board with trading away a draft pick for that young player. Maybe trade away a vet or 2 who won’t be re-signed after this season but other than that, just do your best to make due with whatever draft picks you end up with.

Benning being our best drafting GM ever means that we can still find success with less draft picks and lower draft position. It allows us to go out and make trades for guys like Sutter, Gudbranson, Baertschi, Dorsett, Vey, Prust, Clendening, Pouliot, etc.

It’s also important to bring in UFA’s with term like Eriksson and Gagner to insulate the youth. These guys along with Sutter provide more than just points. They provide leadership, they take pressure off of the youth, and they can show the youth what it means to be a Canuck and establish a culture as the youth follows in their footsteps. They’ll form the new leadership group for the next generation Canucks. Their personalities on and off the ice will hopefully rub off on every prospect in future training camps.

Some people just don’t understand this

The true fans want the team to win games and do the best the team can with whatever draft picks they end up with. If Benning’s scouting eye is keen on a good young player available via trade then I’m 100% on board with trading away a draft pick for that young player. Maybe trade away a vet or 2 who won’t be re-signed after this season but other than that, just do your best to make due with whatever draft picks you end up with.

Benning being our best drafting GM ever means that we can still find success with less draft picks and lower draft position. It allows us to go out and make trades for guys like Sutter, Gudbranson, Baertschi, Dorsett, Vey, Prust, Clendening, Pouliot, etc.

It’s also important to bring in UFA’s with term like Eriksson and Gagner to insulate the youth. These guys provide more than just points. They provide leadership, they take pressure off of the youth, and they can show the youth what it means to be a Canuck and establish a culture as the youth follows in their footsteps.

Some people just don’t understand this
- Nucker101

You're a good poster.

You can build through the draft and compete at the same time. Tampa is building through the draft every year but they're still competing for a Cup.

I think you, and others, get muddled up in the lingo, the reality is you can be all things at the same time. Steve Yzerman believes in building through the draft, he's a draftist by definition, but he's also competing for a Cup because he's a good drafter, doesn't mean he stops being a draftist because he's now competing.

Tanking to me simply refers to going after the first overall pick.

Tanking does work, it gets you nearer to the first overall pick despite the new odds in play. Tanking at the TDL last year resulted in a second last finish, which meant we drafted no worse than 5th overall. Which meant we had better odds of selecting the best kids on earth before 26 other teams...guaranteed.
- LeftCoaster

Yzerman❤

I would say even Yzerman performed a bit of tanking last year. After knowing they were done, he made zero panic moves and even managed to dump some cap to the Flyers.
I believe tanking is more about getting into best possible position at the bottom of standings. Some teams may not get a chance to start the tank process until a couple weeks left in season.