I’d say that’s a fairly close interpretation
Disagree with some stuff here & there,
but nothing major
- jdfitz77

I'd leave kane out since hes likely gone

He’s not a guy who “dominated”
Really good 2way player who put up similar numbers to ROR I’d guess
At least scoring
Idk about the fancy stats

Hossa was never like PK88 though
- jdfitz77

Hossa had a 77 point season the one year they won a cup, and was pretty great in a few of their playoff series.

He’s light years better than Ryan O’Reilly his first 3/4 years in Chicago

Im talking about the numbers we typically associate with 2 way centres(i.e shot suppression.) Is he specifically what's wrong with this team? No but in the time he's been here its not like he actually shut down opposition scoring (granted the blueline doesnt help)
- Sabresfan-365

It’s not just that the blue line hasn’t helped
It’s pretty much been a disaster

How much better do u think O’Reilly’s numbers would be if our defense was good instead of sh!tty?

For example:
Dahlin-Carlson
Scandella-Ristolainen
Guhle-McCabe
Antipin

I think we’d all agree that’s roughly what we need our defense to look like to be really good

Don’t ya think RORs number would be MUCH better?
I do

Hossa had a 77 point season the one year they won a cup, and was pretty great in a few of their playoff series.

He’s light years better than Ryan O’Reilly his first 3/4 years in Chicago
- sbroads24

I’m not really trying to compare him to ROR
I’m trying to compare him to your definition
Hossa doesn’t meet it imo

Which is my problem with your definition
Bc obviously he was important to the Hawks

But moving on...
I’d say the same about Hjarlmsson & even Seabrook (then, not now)
Those guys don’t come close to meeting your definition
I don’t think anyone would say they weren’t important players to the Hawks success though

How are you so sure there will be a lockout?
- washedup20

History?

It’s not just that the blue line hasn’t helped
It’s pretty much been a disaster

How much better do u think O’Reilly’s numbers would be if our defense was good instead of sh!tty?

For example:
Dahlin-Carlson
Scandella-Ristolainen
Guhle-McCabe
Antipin

I think we’d all agree that’s roughly what we need our defense to look like to be really good

Don’t ya think RORs number would be MUCH better?
I do
- jdfitz77

In theory, yes. But we say this year after year with risto as well. Reinhart has a better expected goals against this year and maybe even last year too

I'd leave kane out since hes likely gone
- Sabresfan-365

True (unfortunately)
So even if Mittelstadt “replaces” Kane,
we still need to fill another hole

Nylander hopefully?

I’m not really trying to compare him to ROR
I’m trying to compare him to your definition
Hossa doesn’t meet it imo

Which is my problem with your definition
Bc obviously he was important to the Hawks

But moving on...
I’d say the same about Hjarlmsson & even Seabrook (then, not now)
Those guys don’t come close to meeting your definition
I don’t think anyone would say they weren’t important players to the Hawks success though
- jdfitz77

I can’t disagree with that enough. He was a monster for their first two cup runs.

He slowed down for the last 3 years or so

Nah, its just discussion i dont win. IMO those two guys give you more of the same of whats already been here. Personally, Id rather they wait it out and find a game changer.
- Sabresfan-365

You never answered my question. Is there an "attempted break up" stat? I keep hearing how Risto is the worst at breaking up plays at the blueline, but if he never attempts to break up plays because the coach says "collapse" which is what I see during games, the Sabres just give up the blueline because they're already halfway to the goalie, then that's quite the misleading stat isn't it?

In theory, yes. But we say this year after year with risto as well. Reinhart has a better expected goals against this year and maybe even last year too
- Sabresfan-365

But I think it’s a valid point

To use the Blackhawks again...

Why aren’t they Cup contenders this year?
Is it bc Kane & Toews aren’t as good anymore...
or is it bc the team around them isn’t what it used to be?

I’m not saying Eichel & ROR are Toews & Kane
What I’m saying is that EVERY team (good or bad) has success dependent on more than just a couple of players

Even Toews, Pk88, Keith & Crawford need help

So do our good players

You never answered my question. Is there an "attempted break up" stat? I keep hearing how Risto is the worst at breaking up plays at the blueline, but if he never attempts to break up plays because the coach says "collapse" which is what I see during games, the Sabres just give up the blueline because they're already halfway to the goalie, then that's quite the misleading stat isn't it?
- Wetbandit1

Not that ive seen, but if it helps during the first few weeks when housley wasn't collapsing Ristolainen was still the worst at giving up the blueline.


It's entirely possible they're asking ristolainen to collapse because he doesnt have the stick work or foot speed to really challenge guys on entry

But I think it’s a valid point

To use the Blackhawks again...

Why aren’t they Cup contenders this year?
Is it bc Kane & Toews aren’t as good anymore...
or is it bc the team around them isn’t what it used to be?

I’m not saying Eichel & ROR are Toews & Kane
What I’m saying is that EVERY team (good or bad) has success dependent on more than just a couple of players

Even Toews, Pk88, Keith & Crawford need help

So do our good players
- jdfitz77

I actually think it's because their core guys aren't as good anymore. Toews ain't the same guy by a long shot. ditto seabrook.

I actually think it's because their core guys aren't as good anymore. Toews ain't the same guy by a long shot. ditto seabrook.
- Sabresfan-365

Plus no Hossa.

They haven’t been that great in a few years

I can’t disagree with that enough. He was a monster for their first two cup runs.

He slowed down for the last 3 years or so
- sbroads24

Well I guess we aren’t gonna agree
Surprise, surprise (haha)
But Hossa did not dominate or control games on his own
Again though... moving on...

Hjarlmsson & Seabrook then
I’d say they were “core” guys who were important to the Hawks winning
Mtheres no way they meet the standards of your definition though

Not that few.

Pittsburgh has like 4 of them.

Toronto has a few

Washington has 3 or 4

Boston has a few

It’s not a knock on O’Reilly as much as I’m saying we need another guy to be better than him
- sbroads24

Who is the 4th on the Penguins?

Who beyond OV and Backstrom consistently takes over games?

I don't watch enough of the Leafs to even hazard a guess at who the few are aside from Matthews.

Plus no Hossa.

They haven’t been that great in a few years
- sbroads24

Weren’t they like #2 in points last year
I know they were up there

Who is the 4th on the Penguins?

Who beyond OV and Backstrom consistently takes over games?

I don't watch enough of the Leafs to even hazard a guess at who the few are aside from Matthews.
- kingcong39

Kadri, Gardiner, Nylander. People love Reilly but he's basically just risto producing more offensively


Kuznetsov for the caps seems like an obvious #3 choice

Who is the 4th on the Penguins?

Who beyond OV and Backstrom consistently takes over games?

I don't watch enough of the Leafs to even hazard a guess at who the few are aside from Matthews.
- kingcong39

Kessel, Malkin, Sid and Letang. You could throw Murray in there as well.

Weren’t they like #2 in points last year
I know they were up there
- jdfitz77

Yeah, they were bound to come down this year though.

They shot at a high %, and got better than normal goaltending.

They weren’t dominating teams like they used to 3-4 years ago

ESPN is right there too...its too bad that sports networks have taken up this kind of bullpoop.

I know a lot of people don't like Kane. But he is 20x the player Myers is and way more tough.
- feetontheair22

He was just part of it it was Myers(21 minutes), Armia(11 goals), and Jack "oh my God he's (frank)ing awesome" Roslovic. for Kane and Bogosian.

Hossa had a 77 point season the one year they won a cup, and was pretty great in a few of their playoff series.

He’s light years better than Ryan O’Reilly his first 3/4 years in Chicago
- sbroads24

Really? A lead pipe lock HOFer is light years better than ROR? Come on!

Yeah, they were bound to come down this year though.

They shot at a high %, and got better than normal goaltending.

They weren’t dominating teams like they used to 3-4 years ago
- sbroads24

I mostly agree
I think it’s bc they lost all their depth though
Not bc Kane & Toews aren’t as good

Not that ive seen, but if it helps during the first few weeks when housley wasn't collapsing Ristolainen was still the worst at giving up the blueline.


It's entirely possible they're asking ristolainen to collapse because he doesnt have the stick work or foot speed to really challenge guys on entry
- Sabresfan-365

It is, and it's entirely possible for all the reasons I've pointed out. My point is there's next to no context for any of these stats. And some shaky logic for others.

We'll never know unless we're inside the room. So round and round we go. No one being right, no one being wrong.

I mostly agree
I think it’s bc they lost all their depth though
Not bc Kane & Toews aren’t as good
- jdfitz77

I think depth is their biggest issue. But I agree that Toews and Seabrook aren’t nearly the same players. Kane still is.

I think the Sabres have a star power + depth issue

Well I guess we aren’t gonna agree
Surprise, surprise (haha)
But Hossa did not dominate or control games on his own
Again though... moving on...

Hjarlmsson & Seabrook then
I’d say they were “core” guys who were important to the Hawks winning
Mtheres no way they meet the standards of your definition though
- jdfitz77

He really did. He did it in the way that Jack does and people say he doesn't. It's the little plays he makes.