such as?

We're also talking half a year versus four
- Sabresfan-365

Let’s try it this way: name any move made by Botterill that improved the Buffalo Sabres.

The simple truth is there were several moves that could have -
But didn’t - Make the team much better. It’s also true despite all the finger pointing at Murray, that he made many more moves that improved this team than JBotts.

We vilify Darcy STIL for siting on his hands. Well ...
- Der Kaiser

Can’t compare GMTM & Botts just yet
Botts has been here like 6 months
I’m interested to see what he does at the deadline & this offseason

If we ignore defense in the first 2 rounds again, my head might explode

You also have to lace your skates and stand forthe Anthem. Why not track those?
- Der Kaiser

because entries and exits actually have an effect the outcome game and anthems don't?

This is just dense

Let’s try it this way: name any move made by Botterill that improved the Buffalo Sabres.
- Der Kaiser

Let's try it this way: is 6 months enough time to undo a complete debacle of a team?

He clearly wants to be more patient and shed some salary+add draft picks before making those moves

Let’s try it this way: name any move made by Botterill that improved the Buffalo Sabres.
- Der Kaiser

Ppl like Pouliot, but I think he’s meh

If his plan really was to “stealth tank” then whoever we get in this draft will help

Keeping the kids in Rochester this year doesn’t help the Sabres NOW,
but could very well benefit us in the future

I do think winning in Rochester matters,
and obviously developing players correctly will be a major help

Idk how we can really evaluate Botts year though? He just got here man

Can’t compare GMTM & Botts just yet
Botts has been here like 6 months
I’m interested to see what he does at the deadline & this offseason

If we ignore defense in the first 2 rounds again, my head might explode
- jdfitz77

I’ll lay my cards on the table: I’m trying to suggest if we can be patient for Botterill while he addresses all the team’s shortcomings, that we can be patient during that process with certain players that have come under indictment here in the last 45 or 60 Days.

How are these generated? Isn't there a pool of data that are available for them evaluate the same metrics for the whole season?

I'm particularly curious about this here because that means those stats capture almost exclusively what has been arguably the Sabres worst stretch of the season. Also, sample size
- JetpackJesus

I think these are human tracked though so I don't believe there's a pool of data. I agree but thats why i thought the kane-reinhart one was interesting. One is a "must have" the other is a must get rid of

he wasn't going to be able to fix the D any other way than the draft, that's why the timing is off.
- Sabresfan-365

That’s not true
If Bogo & Kulikov were good top4 guys then that would’ve helped A LOT

Instead,
they were terrible for the most part

because entries and exits actually have an effect the outcome game and anthems don't?

This is just dense
- Sabresfan-365

Entries and exits are very attenuated in their relation to the outcome determining stat : goals.

I’ll lay my cards on the table: I’m trying to suggest if we can be patient for Botterill while he addresses all the team’s shortcomings, that we can be patient during that process with certain players that have come under indictment here in the last 45 or 60 Days.
- Der Kaiser

These guys have been under indictment for far longer than that

These guys have been under indictment for far longer than that
- Sabresfan-365

You rarely argue the main thrust of an argument. You choose to quibble over loose change.

- Sabresfan-365

This is what I don't like about analytics

One is on pace for 30 goals this season

One isn't even on pace for 30 points this season

Entries and exits are very attenuated in their relation to the outcome determining stat : goals.
- Der Kaiser

Except they're not. The forward that gains the opposing blueline (aka jack eichel is a puck carrying phenom) is much more likely to create sustained possession, playmaking and goals than the guy who's chipping and chasing.

Same with the defender who can prevent the opposition from gaining the blue line. prevents the other team from spending time in the o-zone and generating chances.

This is what I don't like about analytics

One is on pace for 30 goals this season

One isn't even on pace for 30 points this season
- Stripes77

this was tracked over the last 11 games, where kane hasn't done much of anything

Do possession and zone entries go on the scoreboard?
- Der Kaiser

Mike Tolbert gets 2 TD’s from the 1 yard line
Lesean McCoy gets 150 all purpose yards and no TD’s

I’ll take Tolbert because he got on the score board.

Good lord

You rarely argue the main thrust of an argument. You choose to quibble over loose change.
- Der Kaiser

was the main thrust of your argument not patience? it's not as if people just suddenly soured on these guys, it's been a while now.

Mike Tolbert gets 2 TD’s from the 1 yard line
Lesean McCoy gets 150 all purpose yards and no TD’s

I’ll take Tolbert because he got on the score board.

Good lord
- sbroads24

Let me just understand what your saying - Now Reinhart is GOOD??

I’ll lay my cards on the table: I’m trying to suggest if we can be patient for Botterill while he addresses all the team’s shortcomings, that we can be patient during that process with certain players that have come under indictment here in the last 45 or 60 Days.
- Der Kaiser

What players are u talking about though?
I’ve been a Reinhart supporter,
but idk wtf has happened to him this year?

Okposo has been MUCH better since about game 15

O’Reilly is overly criticized imo

This is all the kind of stuff that happens when you’re as bad as we are for as long as we’ve been

I think we all thought we’d be contending for the playoffs by now

So it’s only natural that we are overly critical of individual players

Not that it’s good...
but I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems either
I don’t think we need to blow it up
And I think we are pretty close to turning it around

this was tracked over the last 11 games, where kane hasn't done much of anything
- Sabresfan-365

Last 11 games

Kane 5 points
Reinhart 2 points

Again this is my issue with analytics

Mike Tolbert gets 2 TD’s from the 1 yard line
Lesean McCoy gets 150 all purpose yards and no TD’s

I’ll take Tolbert because he got on the score board.

Good lord
- sbroads24

Because comparing football to hockey is the same...

Mike Tolbert gets 2 TD’s from the 1 yard line
Lesean McCoy gets 150 all purpose yards and no TD’s

I’ll take Tolbert because he got on the score board.

Good lord
- sbroads24

Bad analogy. One game, small sample size.

Let me just understand what your saying - Now Reinhart is GOOD??
- Der Kaiser

No. It was an 11 game sample.

I think these are human tracked though so I don't believe there's a pool of data. I agree but thats why i thought the kane-reinhart one was interesting. One is a "must have" the other is a must get rid of
- Sabresfan-365

That’s why a lot of these stats are bogus to a degree

How much value do you put in one stat compared to another?
That’s also an issue

Not that they aren’t helpful...
but I’ll always say the eye test is best

Because comparing football to hockey is the same...
- Stripes77

The statements about “does this get on the scoreboard” irks me.

Yes, they do. They lead you to the scoreboard of you consistently do them well.

Ignoring the process is dumb

was the main thrust of your argument not patience? it's not as if people just suddenly soured on these guys, it's been a while now.
- Sabresfan-365

When did people sour on ROR, Reinhart and Okposo?

A TSN article was written in AUGUST 2017 recognizing Risto as the walking debate between analytics types and eye test types and now this year he’s “a whiff”

So yeah, we should be as patient with them in the disaster as we are with the GM.