Is this the same obsession the coaching staff had with playing Vandevelde?
- MJL

yes, it is

Wasn't yesterday national pie day?
- FlyersGrace

No idea. One part I despise about adulting is the lack of easy access to baked goods. All these modern girls know how to make is cookies. I failed on a self attempt at brownies.


As for scoob's q : Plain, strore bought. Out of the foil like container it came in.

I read those quotes as he has some off the ice issues. Maturity comes at different ages. I personally detest the sense of entitlement I have to deal with on a daily basis sometimes. So yeah I can understand the coach's view to sit your ass if they don't like your attitude and the GM backing that.
- FlyersGrace

maturity is a bit of a loaded word. not really sure what hak was saying there exactly. could be off ice, as you say...but nothing about him strikes me as an immature/entitled person. just my very remote observation.

maturity is a bit of a loaded word. not really sure what hak was saying there exactly. could be off ice, as you say...but nothing about him strikes me as an immature/entitled person. just my very remote observation.
- hammarby31

what i gather is Sanheim is in his own head, mentally it sounds like he needed a reset.

I read those quotes as he has some off the ice issues. Maturity comes at different ages. I personally detest the sense of entitlement I have to deal with on a daily basis sometimes. So yeah I can understand the coach's view to sit your ass if they don't like your attitude and the GM backing that.
- FlyersGrace

Entitlement.

Damn those young kids for being angry at the state you damn boomers left the world in.

Housing costs and everything else for that matter out of control. Employees treated like expendable trash. Wages stagnant since what the 80's?

(frank) you old people. No mercy.

I honestly don't give a poop if Sanheim is scratched for a few games or if he is sent to the AHL because the coach doesn't play him. I do give a poop when people try to tell me that it is because Brandon Manning is better than Travis Sanheim. That defies just about every logical way of evaluating hockey players.

The Flyers got a positive result last night despite a poor process. Over time, the process will lead to results, whether they are good or bad. If you play a poopty game and end just okay with it because you won, that is going to lead to poor results later on. Everything about Manning being better right now is about results and ignores that despite Sanheim doing a lot of things right, it has led to subpar results. It won't stay that way. Great hockey players understand that the process is what matters.

The process is what was preached when the Flyers lost 10 in a row, and now when they win it is about result.
- YuenglingJagr

I do not value Manning more than Sanheim but I do think he's been a better fit in the #6 role this season. Hes been overused at times but isn't as bad as his haters think & crucify him for every mistake while creating all the excuses in the world for Sanheim.

Yeungling is awful by the way. By far the worst beer I drank in Philadelphia.

maturity is a bit of a loaded word. not really sure what hak was saying there exactly. could be off ice, as you say...but nothing about him strikes me as an immature/entitled person. just my very remote observation.
- hammarby31

the actual interview was like a circle jerk to hockey speak...but I got no hint of a maturity issue. he seems to be taking the demotion fine

I do not value Manning more than Sanheim but I do think he's been a better fit in the #6 role this season. Hes been overused at times but isn't as bad as his haters think & crucify him for every mistake while creating all the excuses in the world for Sanheim.

Yeungling is awful by the way. By far the worst beer I drank in Philadelphia.
- Baxter27

I dont think Manning is bad, he is what we should think he is, a 6th-7th D. I do agree statistically you can make a case that Sanheim has played as well or better but has had bad puck luck. All that said, i believe it is a mental thing with Sanheim and he needed to go to the AHL to reset.

I dont think Manning is bad, he is what we should think he is, a 6th-7th D. I do agree statistically you can make a case that Sanheim has played as well or better but has had bad puck luck. All that said, i believe it is a mental thing with Sanheim and he needed to go to the AHL to reset.
- wcorvette

I'll bite for real.

I think Sanheim should have been allowed to stay up and play. Its not totally crazy to label Manning as the "safer" player at present time. Or to say players like that might get you more short terms wins.

On a club thats rebuilding, player development and in turn long term success should have priority. I think after that 10 game losing skid, Hakstol started really focusing at winning - at all cost.

Crazy thoughts from nutter. Sanheim will be back, hopefully soon. They talk about confidence, well the kid is going to have a hard time with that being benched or having his ice time cut after every mistake.

Y'all are to quiet, we must need to talk about Manning vs Sanheim

here is a cut and paste from another board, maybe this will wake up the natives.

His +/- is good for two reasons (BTW, they cannot be directly contributed to him).
(1) He is getting great goaltending. Flyers Goalies have a save% of 94.47 at
5-on-5 with him on the ice. That has very little to do with his defensive ability. It has more to do with the fact that goalies just happen to make more saves when he’s out there.
(2) The team’s shooting % with him on the ice is high too. Again, this isn’t indicative of any world beating talent on Manning’s part. Players just happen to score when he’s out there.

Those two stats combine to form a stat called PDO. It’s referred to as the “luck” stat. His PDO was one of the highest on the team a week and a half ago but he has been playing poorly for 5-6 straight games now and his PDO has plummeted because of it. League average is 100 and he was around 102-104 throughout the season. Now, it’s down 98.87. His season has been the polar opposite to Sanheim’s when taking a look at PDO. In fact, Sanheim’s season was remarkably similar to Ghost’s last year (team can’t score or make saves with him out there). Sanheim does need some work on getting his stick on pucks, improving his gap control, and positioning. Even with his rookie learning curve that he’s been on, the team was conceding the second fewest scoring chances/high danger scoring chances and shots. Unfortunately, for him and the Flyers, teams were able to convert on quite a few of their opportunities for a myriad of reasons. I’m glad Sanheim will be getting to play in all-situations now.
- wcorvette

For full disclosure I didn't read all of this. I stopped when the nonsense got too much.

Based on what I did read when Manning's PDO was high, it had nothing to do with Manning's play, which they offered no proof of. However when his PDO plummeted, that was completely due to Manning's poor play!

I dont think Manning is bad, he is what we should think he is, a 6th-7th D. I do agree statistically you can make a case that Sanheim has played as well or better but has had bad puck luck. All that said, i believe it is a mental thing with Sanheim and he needed to go to the AHL to reset.
- wcorvette

I'd be happy to see Sanheim in the line up tomorrow but can understand the coaching staff making judgement calls on experience & results vs fancy stats and luck.

No doubt Sanheim has the tools to be a great NHL defenseman. He's shown a strong mental make up since his draft year as well. Not worried about him at all.

For full disclosure I didn't read all of this. I stopped when the nonsense got too much.

Based on what I did read when Manning's PDO was high, it had nothing to do with Manning's play, which they offered no proof of. However when his PDO plummeted, that was completely due to Manning's poor play!
- MJL

Trashes really any negative viewpoint of the organization.

More importantly offers up no viewpoints of his own. The more things change. Just give us some humor man, something original. What did you have for lunch today? My god.

I honestly don't give a poop if Sanheim is scratched for a few games or if he is sent to the AHL because the coach doesn't play him. I do give a poop when people try to tell me that it is because Brandon Manning is better than Travis Sanheim. That defies just about every logical way of evaluating hockey players.

The Flyers got a positive result last night despite a poor process. Over time, the process will lead to results, whether they are good or bad. If you play a poopty game and end just okay with it because you won, that is going to lead to poor results later on. Everything about Manning being better right now is about results and ignores that despite Sanheim doing a lot of things right, it has led to subpar results. It won't stay that way. Great hockey players understand that the process is what matters.

The process is what was preached when the Flyers lost 10 in a row, and now when they win it is about result.
- YuenglingJagr

That's all an opinion which everyone is entitled to have. The idea that Manning simply being a better player defies just about every logical way of evaluating hockey players is really silly considering that right now Manning simply is a better player. The issue there is really the evaluation process of the source making that statement.

Trashes really any negative viewpoint of the organization.

More importantly offers up no viewpoints of his own. The more things change. Just give us some humor man, something original. What did you have for lunch today? My god.
- flyer_nutter

In order to have any credibility whatsoever you actually have to discuss the sport and if there is something you disagree with make a reasonable retort. I'll be waiting.

Well I tried.

yes, it is
- YuenglingJagr

As it turned out that same obsession was blown out of proportion completely in the same manner as it this season with different players. It's really funny.

I'll bite for real.

I think Sanheim should have been allowed to stay up and play. Its not totally crazy to label Manning as the "safer" player at present time. Or to say players like that might get you more short terms wins.

On a club thats rebuilding, player development and in turn long term success should have priority. I think after that 10 game losing skid, Hakstol started really focusing at winning - at all cost.

Crazy thoughts from nutter. Sanheim will be back, hopefully soon. They talk about confidence, well the kid is going to have a hard time with that being benched or having his ice time cut after every mistake.
- flyer_nutter

Thing is, despite certain fans wanting them to do so..The Flyers aren't rebuilding. They've restocked while remaining competitive. Exactly what Hextall said they were going to do.

In regards to Sanheim, the NHL is not a development league and letting a player make mistakes can have both positive and negative effects on their development.

Well I tried.
- flyer_nutter

That's trying? No it isn't.

Who is this mystery 4th liner?
- jmatchett383

Chimera would fit the bill. I'll pass on bringing in any 4th liners though let the farm system fill the lower ranks. I would like to see weal being a fringe guy next season appose to Lehtera-Weise this season.

I'll bite for real.

I think Sanheim should have been allowed to stay up and play. Its not totally crazy to label Manning as the "safer" player at present time. Or to say players like that might get you more short terms wins.

On a club thats rebuilding, player development and in turn long term success should have priority. I think after that 10 game losing skid, Hakstol started really focusing at winning - at all cost.

Crazy thoughts from nutter. Sanheim will be back, hopefully soon. They talk about confidence, well the kid is going to have a hard time with that being benched or having his ice time cut after every mistake.
- flyer_nutter

This is pure assumption but if you were to play 30 games with a"safe" player and you knew you would go 15-15 because they weren't affecting the outcome of a game most nights

or you took a "riskier" player who had the potential to affect the team when he is hot, but with the risker player you first go 5-10 until he adjusts and becomes better then you go 10-5.

You have the same result, but which player would you take? I would much rather have the riskier player who you hope can become better that will make the team better in the long run.

I understand at this point Sanheim needs a reset in the AHL, but if this was debated before he was benched I would much rather have had Sanheim continuing to play

I'll bite for real.

I think Sanheim should have been allowed to stay up and play. Its not totally crazy to label Manning as the "safer" player at present time. Or to say players like that might get you more short terms wins.

On a club thats rebuilding, player development and in turn long term success should have priority. I think after that 10 game losing skid, Hakstol started really focusing at winning - at all cost.

Crazy thoughts from nutter. Sanheim will be back, hopefully soon. They talk about confidence, well the kid is going to have a hard time with that being benched or having his ice time cut after every mistake.
- flyer_nutter

I too would have preferred he was allowed to play and work it out in the NHL. We argue on this board Manning vs Sanheim, who knows who is right but we should know it is not clear cut. yes they win and Manning is in but is it puck luck and are the advanced stats really the true indicator or is Mannings experience just giving him the edge on some plays. I would rather let Sanheim learn here and it does give me pause how being sent down will affect him, but if he cant take it, well we all know what that would say about him long term.

IF they make the playoffs, Manning backers will reference that he is tougher, correct. In the playoffs it is usually one big play that separates a win from a lose, Manning doesnt have that in his skill set, Sanheim does. Here is to Sanheim getting back in about 10 games.

maturity is a bit of a loaded word. not really sure what hak was saying there exactly. could be off ice, as you say...but nothing about him strikes me as an immature/entitled person. just my very remote observation.
- hammarby31

I think it's referring to maturity as a hockey player, not maturity as it applies to off ice behavior or character.

Thing is, despite certain fans wanting them to do so..The Flyers aren't rebuilding. They've restocked while remaining competitive. Exactly what Hextall said they were going to do.

In regards to Sanheim, the NHL is not a development league and letting a player make mistakes can have both positive and negative effects on their development.
- Baxter27

Thats actually a pretty fun point to think about. I wouldn't say its a development league but a lot more than some other sports. I do think its becomore a bit more of that since the salary cap.

That's all an opinion which everyone is entitled to have. The idea that Manning simply being a better player defies just about every logical way of evaluating hockey players is really silly considering that right now Manning simply is a better player. The issue there is really the evaluation process of the source making that statement.
- MJL

Using something I said in every reply is a nice personal touch, but simply saying Manning is better doesn't make it true

I suspect you will come around on the topic once the coaches do. Not sure what kind of evaluation process that is, but I don't expect you to change.

Well I tried.
- flyer_nutter

He’s not done with you yet.