Interesting nhl.com doesn't have Gudreau with the goal, official scorer at the United center credited Gudreau with the goal, hmmm

That puck changed directions off of Johnnys stick, power enforcer may be onto something
- BetweenTheDots

The only conspiracy that would make sense at all would be that the league wants it to look good when the Hawks get the #1 pick. They would NOT want one of the biggest draws to the sport missing the playoffs.

Totally agree. 2, 7, 10, 19, 20, 38 are all underperforming to expectations. Maybe even 88. 15 and 50 have been injured. The young D is, well, young and inexperienced and it shows. 8 and 12 have generally been good. 48, 64, and 91 showing promise. Not enough talent in their primes on this team.
- matt_ahrens

They get a few more of these guys playing the way they still can and it will go a long way. 88 is still a sold offensive player, but I can't ignore some of the lazy D or the fact that the PP has been a flop. He is the engine that drives the PP and on some nights like tonight, he was just shooting pucks into shin pads (something Keith would be blasted for) and not really doing much. Don't get me wrong, he contributes, but for a guy who's entire game is centered on offensive production, he can't be 29th in PP scoring. They need more from everyone at this point, no matter what the salary. This season is likely lost, but I hope they make some smart moves for next year. I assume some guys are playing banged up because they honestly don't have replacements for them in the system, but maybe they need to start putting more of them on IR and get them ready for next season.

It is just painful to watch the Hawks now - painful! Need a goalie to make a key save? - not going to happen. Need a veteran to get a key goal? - also not going to happen. Need a D-Man to protect a lead or tie? - not going to happen.

I have been ranting about the Hawks’ D-Men getting caught up ice for 2 on 1s. So with the Hawks up 1-0 Oesterle, who has no business being in a Hawks’ uniform, gets caught against the boards at centre ice. How far he was out of the play was measurable in freakin’ miles! Keith does nothing to stop the 2 on 1 and the Flames score the easiest 2 on 1 of the season.

This is the 3rd game in a row where the Hawks were up 1-0, 2-0 and 1-0 where the idiotic Ulf system gave up 2 on 1s for insanely key goals. It is one thing if this team can’t compete but this is coaching. It does not help that Oesterle does not have the slightest clue how to play defence. He should have been sent to the Indy Fuel ages ago. What are his team-mates thinking? Murphy, who was so happy to be a Hawk must hate it now. Murphy is treated with no respect as Oesterle plays and Rutta plays. Rutta is the weakest D-Man in the NHL, which is absolutely pathetic with his size. He also has no idea what he is going.

It has been a sickening season but one player who is not responsible is Murphy. As he seems to have no ability to get out of the Q/Ulf doghouse, we might as well send him to the Penguins where he can win a Cup. Remember the absolutely idiotic Daley fiasco?

Why is AA playing in Panarin’s spot? We have a new Panarin - DeBrincat. Why is it a sin to play him with Kane? Why is AA on the first PP? He is useless there.

Q is ultimately responsible as he is the man in charge and Q has been terrible. TERRIBLE! The systems are ultimately his systems and the personnel decisions are also ultimately his. The team is an embarrassing and total MESS right now.

An AA trade is just a contract drop at this point. He brings nothing to the table. When he is injured the Hawks are a better team. I begged for his trade this summer. Why doesn’t AA get sat out?

Very hard to watch this team which is so dysfunctional.

Rough loss tonight. Honestly, 7 points and 4 teams to leap frog is possible but appears unlikely with the way this team is going right now.

I want these guys to win but I also want these guys to get a top 5-7 pick.... can't have it both ways... which way are you leaning?
- Justin Lowe

i stated with out BTB wins in regulation vs the flames; they be DONE!

with 1 pt and the upcoming schedule = THEY BE DONE...

i thought they played a pretty good team game...(frank) they blocked over 25 shots...glass was good...defensively pretty good...

phantom goalie INT hurt...

what hurts more is watching 19 and 20...did 20 break a sweat tonight...

They get a few more of these guys playing the way they still can and it will go a long way. 88 is still a sold offensive player, but I can't ignore some of the lazy D or the fact that the PP has been a flop. He is the engine that drives the PP and on some nights like tonight, he was just shooting pucks into shin pads (something Keith would be blasted for) and not really doing much. Don't get me wrong, he contributes, but for a guy who's entire game is centered on offensive production, he can't be 29th in PP scoring. They need more from everyone at this point, no matter what the salary. This season is likely lost, but I hope they make some smart moves for next year. I assume some guys are playing banged up because they honestly don't have replacements for them in the system, but maybe they need to start putting more of them on IR and get them ready for next season.
- breadbag

Agree with putting some guys on IR

Start with 50-7-19

Sharp retire

No more Wingels or Bouma

Let kids play & see what they got

It is just painful to watch the Hawks now - painful! Need a goalie to make a key save? - not going to happen. Need a veteran to get a key goal? - also not going to happen. Need a D-Man to protect a lead or tie? - not going to happen.

I have been ranting about the Hawks’ D-Men getting caught up ice for 2 on 1s. So with the Hawks up 1-0 Oesterle, who has no business being in a Hawks’ uniform, gets caught against the boards at centre ice. How far he was out of the play was measurable in freakin’ miles! Keith does nothing to stop the 3 on 1 and the Flames score the easiest 2 on 1 of the season.

This is the 3rd game in a row where the Hawks were up 1-0, 2-0 and 1-0 where the idiotic Ulf system gave up 2 on 1s for insanely key goals. It is one thing if this team can’t compete but this is coaching. It does not help that Oesterle does not have the slightest clue how to play defence. He should have been sent to the Indy Fuel ages ago. What are his team-mates thinking? Murphy, who was so happy to be a Hawk must hate it now. Murphy is treated with no respect as Oesterle plays and Rutta plays. Rutta is the weakest D-Man in the NHL, which is absolutely pathetic with his size. He also has no idea what he is going.

It has been a sickening season but one player who is not responsible is Murphy. As he seems to have no ability to get out of the Q/Ulf doghouse, we might as well send him to the Penguins where he can win a Cup. Remember the absolutely idiotic Daley fiasco?

Why is AA playing in Panarin’s spot? We have a new Panarin - DeBrincat. Why is it a sin to play him with Kane? Why is AA on the first PP? He is useless there.

Q is ultimately responsible as he is the man in charge and Q has been terrible. TERRIBLE! The systems are ultimately his systems and the personnel decisions are also ultimately his. The team is an embarrassing and total MESS right now.

An AA trade is just a contract drop at this point. He brings nothing to the table. When he is injured the Hawks are a better team. I begged for his trade this summer. Why doesn’t AA get sat out?

Very hard to watch this team which is so dysfunctional.
- Z3Hawk

you can add another "D" word: denial

From Lazerus: Asked Q if it's troubling that the kids are leading, not the veteran core. "I still think our veteran core are playing fine." Said shot selection and finish was the problem.

Anyone that still thinks this team should be doing anything other than tanking and trying to get as many top picks and prospects for a complete tear down and rebuild......is FOOLING themselves.

This coming from me, should tell you how bad it really is.

We've reached the point of no return. The era is done. Time to see what we can get for Kane, fire the coach/GM, and start from scratch.

Not making any excuse, just point out how similar it is. Toews isn't having a good year, but this season isn't all on him. Not one vet is playing up to their usual standard this season. You want to put it all on Toews, okay, go ahead. No offense, but ignoring the short comings and mistakes of the other players is wearing blinders. Even the Hawks terrible PP, hasn't really been any better when Toews is on the other unit. Toews isn't going to overpower players like you expect, that has never really been his thing most of the time, but he needs to start actually scoring when he gets a chance. He is young enough to get back on track like he was before the world cup of hockey. Whatever injury he took there seems to have been a turning point.

This team needs to improve on the blueline first and foremost and they need to seal up the defensive leaks. You can't win giving up the chances they do and the volume of attempts against. It is problem #1, because they won't outscore the weak defensive play.
- breadbag

The best way of looking at the Hawks this season is to just concede that there are at least 6 teams in the Central that are better than them. They aren't good enough on the blue line and the forwards can't outscore that flaw, in fact they can't score at all. Both Glass and Forsberg have given them solid enough goaltending most nights, but the team in front of them just isn't consistently capable of beating teams with more depth of talent.

Missing a playoff spot one year isn't the worst thing that can happen if their best young players gain needed experience and the team can draft a top player in June. Its happened to Tampa & LAK in the last couple of years and is about to happen to the Hawks and Rangers.

Not making any excuse, just point out how similar it is. Toews isn't having a good year, but this season isn't all on him. Not one vet is playing up to their usual standard this season. You want to put it all on Toews, okay, go ahead. No offense, but ignoring the short comings and mistakes of the other players is wearing blinders. Even the Hawks terrible PP, hasn't really been any better when Toews is on the other unit. Toews isn't going to overpower players like you expect, that has never really been his thing most of the time, but he needs to start actually scoring when he gets a chance. He is young enough to get back on track like he was before the world cup of hockey. Whatever injury he took there seems to have been a turning point.

This team needs to improve on the blueline first and foremost and they need to seal up the defensive leaks. You can't win giving up the chances they do and the volume of attempts against. It is problem #1, because they won't outscore the weak defensive play.
- breadbag

You should probably talk to your Coach. The below is one reason why I think most of us suggest a change there, and it's not because he has forgotten how to coach, not because he didn't win us multiple championships, and not because he's not going to the HHOF. It's because, over time, either a blind loyalty or complacency or both settles in between leader and led and the performance and decision-making often falls off from that that brought you to the top.

@MarkLazerus

Asked Q if it's troubling that the kids are leading, not the veteran core. "I still think our veteran core are playing fine." Said shot selection and finish was the problem.

Toews, Saad and Duclair combined for ONE SHOT on goal.

How in the hell does 10.5 million dollar Toews produce so little? Brandon Saad at 6 million played 9 minutes tonight.

Players who DID play well...Vinnie, Cat, and freaking Jurco.

Sorry not seeing much out of Duclair. Fast skater, but that's about it. Maybe Toews is dragging him down. LOL

Rough loss tonight. Honestly, 7 points and 4 teams to leap frog is possible but appears unlikely with the way this team is going right now.

I want these guys to win but I also want these guys to get a top 5-7 pick.... can't have it both ways... which way are you leaning?
- Justin Lowe

I am leaning for a lottery pick. This team as it is now is done. There has to be something physically wrong with Toews. His play is half of what it was 3 years ago. I would retire if I was him... And the same holds true for Seabrook.

the NHL has really become comedic amateur hour with:

1. refs who miss and blow calls far to much...don't give me poop about speed of the game, these guys are trained and experienced with the speed

2. video replay is a mess

3. goalie int is subjective guesswork: no one knows what is or what it isn't

4. assinine offside replay reversals after capturing the zone for 30 seconds...

Toews, Saad and Duclair combined for ONE SHOT on goal.

How in the hell does 10.5 million dollar Toews produce so little? Brandon Saad at 6 million played 9 minutes tonight.

Players who DID play well...Vinnie, Cat, and freaking Jurco.

Sorry not seeing much out of Duclair. Fast skater, but that's about it. Maybe Toews is dragging him down. LOL
- kwolf68

Again I think 19 is done & he looks lost but he did hit crossbar & set up 12 who hit crossbar was 18--8 on draws & killed alot of 5 on 3 but he does have to produce for his salary

But he has different role than others & they need to produce as well on "both ends of the ice"

It is time to blow it up & sell high before it gets worse in years to come

Toews, Saad and Duclair combined for ONE SHOT on goal.

How in the hell does 10.5 million dollar Toews produce so little? Brandon Saad at 6 million played 9 minutes tonight.

Players who DID play well...Vinnie, Cat, and freaking Jurco.

Sorry not seeing much out of Duclair. Fast skater, but that's about it. Maybe Toews is dragging him down. LOL
- kwolf68

On merit, that was about 4 minutes more than he deserved.

On merit, that was about 4 minutes more than he deserved.
- RickJ

Panarin played 22:44 for Torts tonight

Why Bowman still has a job is biggest question

the NHL has really become comedic amateur hour with:

1. refs who miss and blow calls far to watch...don't give me poop about speed of the game, these guys are trained and experienced with the speed

2. video replay is a mess

3. goalie int is subjective guesswork: no one knows what is or what it isn't

4. assinine offside replay reversals after capturing the zone for 30 seconds...
- bogiedoc

What gets me about the offside challenge is the 2 minute penalty if you fail. The league is so inconsistent with getting the review right. So teams are literally penalized for their incompetence on reviews at times, on top of the goal standing.

On merit, that was about 4 minutes more than he deserved.
- RickJ

On merit, that was about 4 minutes more than he deserved.
- RickJ

He isn't likely to find his game again playing 4th line. I think at some point, they have to give him a chance to play in the top 6 and show that he can do better.

Panarin played 22:44 for Torts tonight

Why Bowman still has a job is biggest question
- Goalie-33

Same result - a loss and as usual nothing out of him in an important game to the Jackets. Torts will find out more about this guy as the going gets tougher and tougher.

Same result - a loss and as usual nothing out of him in an important game to the Jackets. Torts will find out more about this guy as the going gets tougher and tougher.
- RickJ

Saad?

He isn't likely to find his game again playing 4th line. I think at some point, they have to give him a chance to play in the top 6 and show that he can do better.
- breadbag

On what basis - he's done f$ck all out there for months now. Hits nobody, doesn't go to the front of the net, can't score. Kills some penalties that's about it.

- bogiedoc

Interesting that now we have all of the game time and post game chatter by the main Hawks play-by-play guys, commentators, and media related to the "what has happened to them?" core, when in the past you could get nary a negative word from them lest they lose their position or access.

Methinks Mr. PR et al are starting the process of softening the fanbase up for the trade of a very popular core player.

Anyone that still thinks this team should be doing anything other than tanking and trying to get as many top picks and prospects for a complete tear down and rebuild......is FOOLING themselves.

This coming from me, should tell you how bad it really is.

We've reached the point of no return. The era is done. Time to see what we can get for Kane, fire the coach/GM, and start from scratch.
- SimpleJack

Kane is the one player that absolutely cannot be moved under any circumstance. He is the TRUE face of the franchise, and it would be a BIGGER marketing disaster (IMO) to move him than it would be to move Toews (who most fans by now realize has been a shell of his former self). On top of that, Kane's style of play will allow him to play another decade in this league. He's still right in the sweet spot of his career. He's got multiple "elite" years left in him. The 'Hawks - if rebuilt properly - will be contending again sooner rather than later, and he'll be the veteran this team will depend on (which is also when he'll get the C on his sweater).

But the concept is right. Liquidation sale. Everything else can go. The new core this team must focus on building around - Kane, 'Cat, Schmaltz. Crawford only gets moved in a vast overpay. Funny how he's missed ~20 starts and he's still statistically among the best goalies in the league. He's a proven winner, and a team like Vegas would make a lot of sense. But again, unless we get a haul, we keep him. He's an elite goalie, and a sure-fire top-5 at the least. He's got multiple good years left ahead of him.

Accumulate draft picks, stock-pile the system with centers and defense-men, trade the dead weight, and within two years this team could be back in the swing of things.

The last thing this team needs is to follow the Detroit model of being "just good enough", only to completely collapse once the vets you depended on for so long (Dats, Zett, Lidstrom, etc.) are no longer able to do their jobs/retire, and your farm system doesn't have much to show for it.

Rough loss tonight. Honestly, 7 points and 4 teams to leap frog is possible but appears unlikely with the way this team is going right now.

I want these guys to win but I also want these guys to get a top 5-7 pick.... can't have it both ways... which way are you leaning?
- Justin Lowe

It is not possible this year. They’ve played more than half the season. This team is what it is. To expect any dramatic change is short sighted. When rookies and second year players are the ones generating the majority of the quality chances, and you have significant stretches of the game where you can barely complete a pass is embarrassing.

I freely admit I was never able to play hockey, but here is what I see:
-Toews can’t generate anything on his own.
-Keith looks tentative and very unsure of where to go with the puck (and I won’t even get into his comical shot inaccuracy).
-Kampf line is easily the hardest working, and causes the most problems for opponents, they just don’t quite have the finishing skills.
-KAne looks like he isn’t just frustrated beyond belief (and rightfully so), and ends up making some half-efforts or trying to make passes that have no business in the game.
-Seems to be a big disconnect between the forwards and defense (see CAL first goal tonight).

I’m not sure if it is the right idea, but I’m ready for a new coach. I know the argument is “who do you replace him with”, but we need a pretty drastic change. It’s 53 games in and we are still making the same mistakes.