I don't think so. Mario Lemieux was the most athletically-gifted hockey player ever, hands down. Wayne Gretzky was the smartest ever (not that Lemieux wasn't smart as well). Mario Lemieux could skate around 2 players and drag one on his back to score. Wayne Gretzky would pull up at the blue line, have 3 defenders drawn to him and find a teammate for an easy goal, and then score a goal on the next shift when they gave his space.

Gretzky could use his teammates, whether they be Kurri, Robitaille, Sandstrom, etc. better than anyone ever because he read the play better than anyone, and that is why he has more assists than any other player has points. So while Mario was arguably the better individual player, Gretzky was the better team (as in on-ice team) player.

That's how I look at it. If I had to do a top-3 players ever, Orr is #1 and Gretzky and Lemieux are 2 and 3, mostly due to Lemieux's health issues.
- jmatchett383

I respectfully disagree with a lot of that and at the end of the day there's no real way of knowing the hypothetical situations I proposed for sure. Ive been in too many whos better debates in my life haha.

I read somewhere that teams are apprehensive about Brassard because of his shoulder and OTT isn't budging on his price tag even with his issue.
- Rinosaur

Pierre LeBrun
@PierreVLeBrun
3m3 minutes ago
Senators talking to teams about Derick Brassard; price is believed to be a 1st RD pick, top prospect plus 3rd piece. Brassard has another year left on his deal next season at $5 M aav although it's $3.5 M in real cash

well there ya have it.... there should be some way to make it work and keep Sprong....some combination of these assets: Sheary, 1st, Gustavsson, Hunwick

So I only got to watch the 1st period before going to play hockey yesterday. I was in the dressing room with all my gear on and there was still 5 mins before our slot started so I said F it, took out my phone, opened up the Game Centre Live app and turned on the game...I actually turned it on 15 seconds before he got his 400th and got to see it live haha. I was very pleased with that.

I don't think so. Mario Lemieux was the most athletically-gifted hockey player ever, hands down. Wayne Gretzky was the smartest ever (not that Lemieux wasn't smart as well). Mario Lemieux could skate around 2 players and drag one on his back to score. Wayne Gretzky would pull up at the blue line, have 3 defenders drawn to him and find a teammate for an easy goal, and then score a goal on the next shift when they gave his space.

Gretzky could use his teammates, whether they be Kurri, Robitaille, Sandstrom, etc. better than anyone ever because he read the play better than anyone, and that is why he has more assists than any other player has points. So while Mario was arguably the better individual player, Gretzky was the better team (as in on-ice team) player.

That's how I look at it. If I had to do a top-3 players ever, Orr is #1 and Gretzky and Lemieux are 2 and 3, mostly due to Lemieux's health issues.
- jmatchett383

Wayne had a 1.92 PPG while Mario had a 1.88 PPG, they'd be pretty damn close lol

Pierre LeBrun
@PierreVLeBrun
3m3 minutes ago
Senators talking to teams about Derick Brassard; price is believed to be a 1st RD pick, top prospect plus 3rd piece. Brassard has another year left on his deal next season at $5 M aav although it's $3.5 M in real cash

well there ya have it.... there should be some way to make it work and keep Sprong....some combination of these assets: Sheary, 1st, Gustavsson, Hunwick
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Would you do it? Seems a little high to me.

Wayne had a 1.92 PPG while Mario had a 1.88 PPG, they'd be pretty damn close lol
- j.boyd919

Exactly and Wayne had 4 our 5 years of very open ice hockey before Mario came in...then add all the injuries Mario battled back from....

Would you do it? Seems a little high to me.
- MattStrat

Not all of that, a combination of some sorts. I'm not really interested in trading Sheary, or any roster player for that much. Also take Hunwick out lol he doesn't count.

Not all of that, a combination of some sorts. I'm not really interested in trading Sheary, or any roster player for that much. Also take Hunwick out lol he doesn't count.
- j.boyd919

Yea I was thinking like 1st, Gustavsson, and Hunwick just for cap reasons....(OTT may not take Hunwick due to contract length). But if we could get Brassard without losing any real roster players or Sprong, that would be a coup.

Maybe Sheary and a 1st is more realistic. I think I could live with that too cause I've really soured on Sheary.

Not all of that, a combination of some sorts. I'm not really interested in trading Sheary, or any roster player for that much. Also take Hunwick out lol he doesn't count.
- j.boyd919

Yeah I hear ya on the roster players.

I think we see some player movement(s) around the league this week.

Comparison between this year's 3C/last year's 3C at even's:

Sheahan:
1.8 points/60
55.9 shot attempts against/60
26.2 scoring chances against/60
49.67% possession

Bonino:
1.44 points/60
60.23 shot attempts against/60
27.8 scoring chances against/60
46.3% possession

Per Jesse Marshall

Comparison between this year's 3C/last year's 3C at even's:

Sheahan:
1.8 points/60
55.9 shot attempts against/60
26.2 scoring chances against/60
49.67% possession

Bonino:
1.44 points/60
60.23 shot attempts against/60
27.8 scoring chances against/60
46.3% possession

Per Jesse Marshall
- j.boyd919

More taste, less filling

Comparison between this year's 3C/last year's 3C at even's:

Sheahan:
1.8 points/60
55.9 shot attempts against/60
26.2 scoring chances against/60
49.67% possession

Bonino:
1.44 points/60
60.23 shot attempts against/60
27.8 scoring chances against/60
46.3% possession

Per Jesse Marshall
- j.boyd919

I'm not sold yet on Sheahan with Kessel. I think thats the most important thing if we want 3 scoring lines.

Comparison between this year's 3C/last year's 3C at even's:

Sheahan:
1.8 points/60
55.9 shot attempts against/60
26.2 scoring chances against/60
49.67% possession

Bonino:
1.44 points/60
60.23 shot attempts against/60
27.8 scoring chances against/60
46.3% possession

Per Jesse Marshall
- j.boyd919

My eyes were right. The HBK line was straight fire in 2016 but Bonino wasnt very good last year and that goes for both regular season and playoffs.

EDIT: If you took away Sheahan's fist 7 to 10 games out of those numbers, how would they look? Even better.

Pierre LeBrun
@PierreVLeBrun
3m3 minutes ago
Senators talking to teams about Derick Brassard; price is believed to be a 1st RD pick, top prospect plus 3rd piece. Brassard has another year left on his deal next season at $5 M aav although it's $3.5 M in real cash

well there ya have it.... there should be some way to make it work and keep Sprong....some combination of these assets: Sheary, 1st, Gustavsson, Hunwick
- YouMeAndDupuis9

The Pens moving Hunwick at this point is a pipedream.

I like Brassard a lot and have talked plenty about how much I'd love to have him here, but I'm not giving up a 1st, especially if there's any truth to his shoulder issues.

I'd send Gustavsson, a 2nd + ZAR for Brassard.

I'm beating the dead horse, but with so many good options at 3C available next season I hate the idea of getting rid of a 1st.

Now, someone mentioned Backlund earlier and I scoffed, but it was a gut reaction. That's a move I'd give a 1st for if an extension was pre-negotiated. No way CGY moves him right now since they will likely be fighting for 3rd place till the end of the season, but a player like that is only way I think the Pens should move their 1st.

Sheahan > Nick "4M" Bonino

I honestly think the only move the Pens should make this year is package up a 4th and someone like Rowney for a Letestu level player to come play the bottom six.

I'd even entertain bringing back Winnik on a return engagement. I think he was grossly misused when he was here last. Him playing the 4C would be a massive upgrade, not to mention him and Reaves on a line together would drive teams nuts.

Sheahan > Nick "4M" Bonino
- DeflatedPucks

Sheahan is definitely getting better. He's engaging more offensively.

I don't know why though, but I'm still not sold completely. That being said, I'm fine with the Pens bringing in an upgrade at 4C and riding the season out that way instead of auctioning things off.

The Pens moving Hunwick at this point is a pipedream.

I like Brassard a lot and have talked plenty about how much I'd love to have him here, but I'm not giving up a 1st, especially if there's any truth to his shoulder issues.

I'd send Gustavsson, a 2nd + ZAR for Brassard.

I'm beating the dead horse, but with so many good options at 3C available next season I hate the idea of getting rid of a 1st.

Now, someone mentioned Backlund earlier and I scoffed, but it was a gut reaction. That's a move I'd give a 1st for if an extension was pre-negotiated. No way CGY moves him right now since they will likely be fighting for 3rd place till the end of the season, but a player like that is only way I think the Pens should move their 1st.
- Rinosaur

A 1st wouldn't be my issue at all. I dont care about any of the Pens picks the next few years. As Boyd mentioned earlier, its roster players that shouldnt be lost.

Crosby and Malkin are not old crotchety players running on fumes. We keep hearing about this window the Pens have, but I just don't think it's as short as people think. Yes, Sid isn't having a banner year, but I bet you he still winds up over a point-a-game with 30 goals. Both players are still so dominant on the ice.

Would it be nice to win three in a row? Of course! Does allowing one year where you don't go "all in" at the deadline sacrifice a year of Sid and Geno? No, they're not close to showing signs of REAL decline.

The Pens are in such a prime position to spend nicely this off-season and really build a fairly stacked team while still planning for the future. There's no reason to auction off serious futures this year. The Pens can make minor moves to attempt a real run.

Pierre LeBrun
@PierreVLeBrun
3m3 minutes ago
Senators talking to teams about Derick Brassard; price is believed to be a 1st RD pick, top prospect plus 3rd piece. Brassard has another year left on his deal next season at $5 M aav although it's $3.5 M in real cash

well there ya have it.... there should be some way to make it work and keep Sprong....some combination of these assets: Sheary, 1st, Gustavsson, Hunwick
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Besides Sprong, does anyone on our team really qualify as a top prospect? Now if they want Sheary and a 1st I'd do that.

Simon has made Sheary expendable in my eyes. We could call up Sprong to fill Sheary's 3rd line role. We'd still have Kessel, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Hags, Simon, Sprong, Rust, ZAR (8) all as options, plus Kuhnhackl, Reaves, Rowney to fill in. That's plenty of wings when we'd have Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan down the middle.

My doubt is Ottawa trading with us though. If there is 1 owner who hates us enough not to trade here, it's probably Melnyk.

Sheahan is definitely getting better. He's engaging more offensively.

I don't know why though, but I'm still not sold completely. That being said, I'm fine with the Pens bringing in an upgrade at 4C and riding the season out that way instead of auctioning things off.
- Rinosaur

Its also interesting that Sheahan isnèt being sheltered either. His ozone% at EVS is only 32%.

The only area Bonino has him out to lunch is that there will never be announcer saying “Sheahan, Sheahan, Sheahan..SHEA-HAN!“

In regards to the 4C pro9blem, I suspect Jimmy will trade for Letestu in exchange for a pick from dem Oilers. (although it would be great if they could just give up on Strome)

Its also interesting that Sheahan isnèt being sheltered either. His ozone% at EVS is only 32%.

The only area Bonino has him out to lunch is that there will never be announcer saying “Sheahan, Sheahan, Sheahan..SHEA-HAN!“

In regards to the 4C pro9blem, I suspect Jimmy will trade for Letestu in exchange for a pick from dem Oilers. (although it would be great if they could just give up on Strome)
- DeflatedPucks

Who the heck knows what Chia will do next lol.

I just don't want the Pens overpaying for Letestu. Last I remember reading was they wanted a 2nd which is way too much IMO. IMO a 4th plus someone like Rowney or a mid-level prospect would suffice.

The Pens moving Hunwick at this point is a pipedream.

I like Brassard a lot and have talked plenty about how much I'd love to have him here, but I'm not giving up a 1st, especially if there's any truth to his shoulder issues.

I'd send Gustavsson, a 2nd + ZAR for Brassard.

I'm beating the dead horse, but with so many good options at 3C available next season I hate the idea of getting rid of a 1st.

Now, someone mentioned Backlund earlier and I scoffed, but it was a gut reaction. That's a move I'd give a 1st for if an extension was pre-negotiated. No way CGY moves him right now since they will likely be fighting for 3rd place till the end of the season, but a player like that is only way I think the Pens should move their 1st.
- Rinosaur

I mentioned Backlund the other day. I think he'd be an amazing fit but yeah, dont see CGY moving him.

There is a growing consensus that people are ok with Sheahan and just getting a small upgrade at 4C. I think you need more 87/71 insurance than just Sheahan.

I will say this...I think GMJR should go all in for a difference maker even if we go the 4C route. A 4c upgrade + try like hell to get Pacioretty/Kane/Nash/Hoffman.

Besides Sprong, does anyone on our team really qualify as a top prospect? Now if they want Sheary and a 1st I'd do that.

Simon has made Sheary expendable in my eyes. We could call up Sprong to fill Sheary's 3rd line role. We'd still have Kessel, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Hags, Simon, Sprong, Rust, ZAR (8) all as options, plus Kuhnhackl, Reaves, Rowney to fill in. That's plenty of wings when we'd have Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan down the middle.

My doubt is Ottawa trading with us though. If there is 1 owner who hates us enougg bot to trade here, it's probably Melnyk.
- Tojo.

That's a great point I never thought of. He absolutely despises the Pens for a few reasons.

I mentioned Backlund the other day. I think he'd be an amazing fit but yeah, dont see CGY moving him.

There is a growing consensus that people are ok with Sheahan and just getting a small upgrade at 4C. I think you need more 87/71 insurance than just Sheahan.

I will say this...I think GMJR should go all in for a difference maker even if we go the 4C route. A 4c upgrade + try like hell to get Pacioretty/Kane/Nash/Hoffman.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Agree with all of this. Its why I like E Staal (but know theres no way Pens are getting him). He could be a 1C or 2C if need be...and that cap hit is just ridiculous for what he brings.

If Sheahan, and the way he's been playing for a month or so, becomes your 4C due to bringing in someone even better, then you know your centre depth is absolutely stocked.