But on the stat sheet, those plays still register as turnovers if the ball is turned over in the process.

If I take the puck away from someone, that player was doing something to have allowed that takeaway. I see no instance where the stripped player shouldn't also be hit with a giveaway.

It's not like I'm walking down the street with a 10$ bill and someone grabs it from me and he "took it away". That's theft. Or if I leave my bike unlocked outside of a store and it gets stolen. It was dumb, yeah, but I didn't give it away.

But in a team sport? How can I NOT have given the puck away if someone took it from the blade of my stick or stole possession from me? It's like, if I unintentionally block a shot, it's still a shot block, right? Or a goalie doesn't see a puck but still saves it, it's still a save, right? It's just kind of absurd.
- BeadyEyedDouche

Idk, I keep looking back to a giveaway being an unforced error. A giveaway is your fault for giving away the puck without direct cause. On a take away, the puck carrier didn't do anything wrong, per se, the other player just made a nice play. I get what you're saying though

Idk, I keep looking back to a giveaway being an unforced error. A giveaway is your fault for giving away the puck without direct cause. On a take away, the puck carrier didn't do anything wrong, per se, the other player just made a nice play. I get what you're saying though
- jcragcrumple

It's just silly that it's like the only stat where you have a grey area.

I mean, a puck bounces off a player's face and goes in the goal, they give him the goal and the shooter the assist but if it weren't for even the slightest re-directions, most of these deflected shots wouldn't go in to begin with.

Is there any other stat in hockey that has a grey area like takeaway vs. giveaway? I really can't think of one off the top of my head. Maybe hits being registered as hits or not?

It's just silly that it's like the only stat where you have a grey area.

I mean, a puck bounces off a player's face and goes in the goal, they give him the goal and the shooter the assist but if it weren't for even the slightest re-directions, most of these deflected shots wouldn't go in to begin with.

Is there any other stat in hockey that has a grey area like takeaway vs. giveaway? I really can't think of one off the top of my head. Maybe hits being registered as hits or not?
- BeadyEyedDouche

Hits and scoring chances maybe. Zone entries and exits? Is this coming from fantasy hockey? Why are you worried about it?

Hits and scoring chances maybe. Zone entries and exits? Is this coming from fantasy hockey? Why are you worried about it?
- TheHank

Because I am of the belief that ROR gives the puck away 5 or 6 times a game and "the stats don't lie" so everyone thinks I'm crayzee

Because I am of the belief that ROR gives the puck away 5 or 6 times a game and "the stats don't lie" so everyone thinks I'm crayzee
- BeadyEyedDouche

Gotcha. I wouldnt have scored that play with the en as a giveaway myself. Bad play, yes. Giveaway, meh, no.
Edit: assuming that was the play that prompted this.

Gotcha. I wouldnt have scored that play with the en as a giveaway myself. Bad play, yes. Giveaway, meh, no.
- TheHank

Clayton keller dropped some dimes tonight. Damn them for not taking nylander.

- BeadyEyedDouche

You’re right Beady. You’ve persuaded me that Factor is a mitch. Not. Wasn’t a good play though. Funny because on Tuesday NHL tonight crew were talking about a shot at the empty net is statistically proven to be a better play than chipping it out with 30 seconds or less left in regulation. Even mentioned teams are often out of place when opposing team re-enters the zone.

You’re right Beady. You’ve persuaded me that Factor is a mitch. Not. Wasn’t a good play though. Funny because on Tuesday NHL tonight crew were talking about a shot at the empty net is statistically proven to be a better play than chipping it out with 30 seconds or less left in regulation. Even mentioned teams are often out of place when opposing team re-enters the zone.
- Hatboro_Swords

seriously what

Colin white is going to shut up Kaiser roll tonight (e5) or
- GERBE!!!75PTS

8:46TOI 0g0a0pts 2PIM 2SOG

Colin “Blowtorch” White

I guess it’s that “or” you didn’t finish.

8:46TOI 0g0a0pts 2PIM 2SOG

Colin “Blowtorch” White

I guess it’s that “or” you didn’t finish.
- Der Kaiser

Or

Clayton keller dropped some dimes tonight. Damn them for not taking nylander.
- TheHank

I should have never started the Keller train maybe he would be ours 😶

I should have never started the Keller train maybe he would be ours 😶
- GERBE!!!75PTS

I need you for my baseball league

I should have never started the Keller train maybe he would be ours 😶
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Yeah... because that's how that works...

Yeah... because that's how that works...
- Wetbandit1

In his mind it might

Perfect night for the Sabres.
Played a competitive game
Lost the 4 pointer, could be very valuable at seasons end
Future 4th liners ERod and Scott (frank)ing Wilson scored...we just need Josefson to come back and net some...Could be a nice line next year.
Coyotes won.

Only disappointment was the Oil losing.

Come on Botts, Team did what it needed to...Jack did what was needed, now hold up your end and get some of these players out of here...solidify the stealthy tank..deal ROR (kidding actually) , Kaner, and I wouldn’t mind selling high on Reinhart....playing well for last 15 games after taking a 3 month vacation early on...not my kinda player.

Edit: while it could have been a 4 point swing, it was only 1

Watching overtime last night, Kane has no idea how to play creative.

He is a bull in a china shop

Housley and his dumbo ears

The official tank list is growing by the day:

Rangers
Canucks
Oilers
Canadians
Senators
Coyotes
Sabres
Detroit

They all are trying to rid their roster of older players

I see a Kane trade and MAYBE a Lehner trade, but that’s it. Too many teams with to many similar players, all trying to dump them into the market.

Rodrigues is legit.

Watching overtime last night, Kane has no idea how to play creative.

He is a bull in a china shop

Housley and his dumbo ears

The official tank list is growing by the day:

Rangers
Canucks
Oilers
Canadians
Senators
Coyotes
Sabres
Detroit

They all are trying to rid their roster of older players

I see a Kane trade and MAYBE a Lehner trade, but that’s it. Too many teams with to many similar players, all trying to dump them into the market.
- washedup20

too
Edit: am I doing this bumhole thing properly

Perfect night for the Sabres.
Played a competitive game
Lost the 4 pointer, could be very valuable at seasons end
Future 4th liners ERod and Scott (frank)ing Wilson scored...we just need Josefson to come back and net some...Could be a nice line next year.
Coyotes won.

Only disappointment was the Oil losing.

Come on Botts, Team did what it needed to...Jack did what was needed, now hold up your end and get some of these players out of here...solidify the stealthy tank..deal ROR (kidding actually) , Kaner, and I wouldn’t mind selling high on Reinhart....playing well for last 15 games after taking a 3 month vacation early on...not my kinda player.

Edit: while it could have been a 4 point swing, it was only 1
- IonSabres

Ror played just as bad as 23 but he’s ok?

7.5 million vs an entry level contract?

A veteran with 9 seasons under his belt and playoff experience. I do respect that he held out for high end cash, but he also added leadership to that asking price and has failed miserably.

Gaustad won face offs, he was our 4th line center. That’s not a skill you over pay for.

This board underestimates 23 while embracing a mediocre “grizzled” vet.

We have moved players, coaches, GM’s, one hockey “czar”, and none of it has changed anything. We said the tank would bring youth and speed, but then the GM overlays for older slower guys:

Bogo
Moulson
Gorges
O’rielly
Fasching (not old but slow)

I know he’s fired but f**k me he was BRUTAL

too
Edit: am I doing this bumhole thing properly
- IonSabres

Ha yeah, Good morning

Ror played just as bad as 23 but he’s ok?

7.5 million vs an entry level contract?

A veteran with 9 seasons under his belt and playoff experience. I do respect that he held out for high end cash, but he also added leadership to that asking price and has failed miserably.

Gaustad won face offs, he was our 4th line center. That’s not a skill you over pay for.

This board underestimates 23 while embracing a mediocre “grizzled” vet.

We have moved players, coaches, GM’s, one hockey “czar”, and none of it has changed anything. We said the tank would bring youth and speed, but then the GM overlays for older slower guys:

Bogo
Moulson
Gorges
O’rielly
Fasching (not old but slow)

I know he’s fired but f**k me he was BRUTAL
- washedup20

You are NOT wrong on any of this.
My logic in trading Reinhart is heavily influenced by past Sabres and teams that had highly skilled players with no heart, low compete...I’m done with them. So rather than keep Sam, spin him off now while he is cheep and playing significantly better...he could be an attractive trade bait...package him with another chip and try to secure a D prospect for him. His 40 game absence this year speaks volumes about his fortitude. Sell high.

ROR, squeeze one more year out of him, then trade him...likely in the offseason of 2019 when teams can better plan to fit his salary (bonus) into their Cap. Waiting another year buys us time to see what Asplund and Mittlestadt bring.

It is time to hold players accountable and stop being the country club for players who want to get paid and float. (I don’t think O’Reilly float btw, just his contract is a bit too high and we will eventually need a lower cost player on the 3rd line if Mittlestadt takes the 2C)

Reinhart was absolutely brutal on the Sen's last 2 goals. He needs a lot of work defensively. What's that guy's deal? I wouldn't mind seeing him go. He's way too inconsistent, and although he's playing way better recently, he still loses most one-on-one battles, cannot deke nor skate around anybody, and I still don't think he's ever actually beaten a goalie with a shot. He's good in front of the net but his all around game is suspect at best.

You are NOT wrong on any of this.
My logic in trading Reinhart is heavily influenced by past Sabres and teams that had highly skilled players with no heart, low compete...I’m done with them. So rather than keep Sam, spin him off now while he is cheep and playing significantly better...he could be an attractive trade bait...package him with another chip and try to secure a D prospect for him. His 40 game absence this year speaks volumes about his fortitude. Sell high.

ROR, squeeze one more year out of him, then trade him...likely in the offseason of 2019 when teams can better plan to fit his salary (bonus) into their Cap. Waiting another year buys us time to see what Asplund and Mittlestadt bring.

It is time to hold players accountable and stop being the country club for players who want to get paid and float. (I don’t think O’Reilly float btw, just his contract is a bit too high and we will eventually need a lower cost player on the 3rd line if Mittlestadt takes the 2C)
- IonSabres

I understand your logic, and I agree that this organization needs passionate players.

I think the argument that a young NHL player doesn’t have passion, is a difficult sell. Young, talented, rich, if their is a personal issue...we’ll ok.

My money is on the Sabres organization is a mess. The players see it and switch into endurance mode until they are out of here.

Is it alarming that Dahlin has been a healthy scratch for the 1st two Olympic Games?