Next person to support trading Keith can take the Alexander Steen dong out of their mouth. Unbelievable fair weather fans in here sometimes. The guy is our greatest defenseman of all-time, on the league's best deal (Tavares ends this year).

One more person says they support trading him I will find you and knock you out and tattoo BARRET JACKMAN on your forehead.
- ObeseOprah

There is no place for that in this forum.

Nice to see Anton Forsberg start again tomorrow.

I know he hasn't been "amazing" but just let the kid play to see what you truly have in him.

I remember a former 6'6 goaltender who had to find his way early on as an NHL goalie with the Blackhawks. He let in some real bad goals during this time as well. However, in time (and with patience from the coaching staff), he became one of the best backups in the league.

#justsayin
- Justin Lowe

Agreed. 100%. We're at the point in the season where the team needs to see what they have with these kids and that should start with Forsberg. Q should support him and not sit him after every loss (his fault or not).

This is depressing when your team is a seller and doesn’t make the list:

Frank Seravalli of TSN: Top 40 players that could be traded by the deadline.

1. Rick Nash – New York Rangers – Left wing
2. Mike Green – Detroit Red Wings – Right defense
3. Mike Hoffman – Ottawa Senators – Left wing
4. Derick Brassard – Ottawa Senators – Center
5. Patrick Maroon – Edmonton Oilers – Left wing
6. Evander Kane – Buffalo Sabres – Left wing
7. Michael Grabner – New York Rangers – Left wing
8. Mark Letestu – Edmonton Oilers – Center
9. Jack Johnson – Columbus Blue Jackets – Left defense
10. Max Pacioretty – Montreal Canadiens – Left wing
11. Max Domi – Arizona Coyotes – Center/Left wing
12. Thomas Vanek – Vancouver Canucks – Left wing
13. Zack Smith – Ottawa Senators – Center/Left wing
14. Nick Holden – New York Rangers – Left defense
15. Ryan McDonagh – New York Rangers – Left defense
16. Tomas Plekanec – Montreal Canadiens – Center
17. Derek Ryan – Carolina Hurricanes – Center
18. Jeff Skinner – Carolina Hurricanes – Left wing
19. Alex Galchenyuk – Montreal Canadiens – Left wing
20. Jean-Gabriel Pageau – Ottawa Senators – Center
21. Boone Jenner – Columbus Blue Jackets – Center
22. Andrew Shaw – Montreal Canadiens – Center/Right Wing
23. Jordan Kyrou – St. Louis Blues – Center/Right Wing
24. Petr Mrazek – Detroit Red Wings – Goaltender
25. Johnny Oduya – Ottawa Senators – Left defense
26. Antoine Vermette – Anaheim Ducks – Center
27. Gustav Nyquist – Detroit Red Wings – Right wing
28. Aaron Dell – San Jose Sharks – Goaltender
29. Jon Gillies – Calgary Flames – Goaltender
30. Erik Gudbranson – Vancouver Canucks – Right defense
31. Ian Cole – Pittsburgh Penguins – Left defense
32. Josh Leivo – Toronto Maple Leafs – Left wing
33. Blake Comeau – Colorado Avalanche – Right wing
34. Ben Hutton – Vancouver Canucks – Left defense
35. Matt Cullen – Minnesota Wild – Center
36. Nic Petan – Winnipeg Jets – Center
37. Robin Lehner – Buffalo Sabres – Goaltender
38. Frank Vatrano – Boston Bruins – Left wing
39. Bobby Ryan – Ottawa Senators – Right wing
40. Tyson Barrie – Colorado Avalanche – Right defense

Absolutely Enzo!!!, somebody’s got to get to someone above Stan Bowman and put that thought in their minds! Because if you leave it up to Bowman, repeating myself again, he will draft a small European perimeter player, a small defensemen that Duncan Keith is taller then, or another Chicago feel good story with that high pick.
I sound like a broken record, but schmaltz And/or DeBrincat , Should not be untouchable if you have a chance to land a young shut down defenseman in a trade. And while I laud him for his hustle, boys, Vincent Hinostroza would be An AHL player in about 27 other teams systems , I just hope our illustrious GM is not putting that kid in the untouchable column. Same with Ryan Hartman, he’s probably at best a fourth line player maybe even a third line player in a well-stocked system.
So it’s all on Stan Bowman, here is one that I hope John McDonough is meddling in.
- wonthecup10

1st rounders Hayes (you know the story), McNeil and Danault, Hartman, Teuvo, Schmaltz, Jokiharju.

2nd Rounders when they didn't have a 1st Knott and Dinky.

Since they've never picked higher than 15 or 16 since Bowman's been GM, show me where the precedent's been set you keep talking about.

Hinostroza was a 6th rounder and he's a decent bottom 6 player. Perhaps Stan would have been better served picking more of a body type, big behemothy guy who'd never skate in the NHL, no?

Also, not that it matters, but you guys noticed Brent Seabrook had 10 SOGs last night right?

Anyone know / care to do some digging to see who the last dman was to get that many in 1 game?

I'm thinking Byfuglien around 2007-09... just a guess though.
- Justin Lowe

How many counted as goals?

Corsi, SAT, SOG, SC, HDSC - all well and good - second in the league in CF% - then why have the failed to get 3 goals in 33 games out of 58 played?

Next person to support trading Keith can take the Alexander Steen dong out of their mouth. Unbelievable fair weather fans in here sometimes. The guy is our greatest defenseman of all-time, on the league's best deal (Tavares ends this year).

One more person says they support trading him I will find you and knock you out and tattoo BARRET JACKMAN on your forehead.
- ObeseOprah

Alright, I'll give this a shot. Although, I would like to reiterate that Duncan Keith is my favorite player from the outset. Keith in another jersey would be tough to see.

My logic for trading him is simple:
-Keith is great now; he provides value in excess of the monetary cost of his contract.

-Unfortunately, today's Blackhawks are not. I think they need a season or two of high picks that will play on entry-level contracts.

-This team also has more holes than one player can solve.

-Trading Keith will likely yield those high picks. Given a sufficiently attractive package, Keith may be a player the Hawks should consider moving.

-Keith is 34 now; he will be 36 in two seasons. At which point, his play will decline due to aging.

-Furthermore, under the current CBA, I do not think that contracts can be LTIR'ed between seasons. Therefore, the Hawks will be unable to capitalize on Hossa money during free agency.

-This limits the ways that the Blackhawks can improve their team to only the draft

-This LTIR situation will become a further problem if Crawford actually did suffer a career-ending injury.

Conclusion:
Collecting picks would appear to be at least a somewhat reasonable strategy. Moving old players, who will not be great for the Hawks next playoff run, would be a place to start.

Not my favorite strategy, but it is at least a potentially justifiable one. So please, take your "fair-weather-fan" accusations elsewhere. I will be here in two years even if the Hawks are coyote-level cursed until then.

Alright, I'll give this a shot. Although, I would like to reiterate that Duncan Keith is my favorite player from the outset. Keith in another jersey would be tough to see.

My logic for trading him is simple:
-Keith is great now; he provides value in excess of the monetary cost of his contract.

-Unfortunately, today's Blackhawks are not. I think they need a season or two of high picks that will play on entry-level contracts.

-This team also has more holes than one player can solve.

-Trading Keith will likely yield those high picks. Given a sufficiently attractive package, Keith may be a player the Hawks should consider moving.

-Keith is 34 now; he will be 36 in two seasons. At which point, his play will decline due to aging.

-Furthermore, under the current CBA, I do not think that contracts can be LTIR'ed between seasons. Therefore, the Hawks will be unable to capitalize on Hossa money during free agency.

-This limits the ways that the Blackhawks can improve their team to only the draft

-This LTIR situation will become a further problem if Crawford actually did suffer a career-ending injury.

Conclusion:
Collecting picks would appear to be at least a somewhat reasonable strategy. Moving old players, who will not be great for the Hawks next playoff run, would be a place to start.

Not my favorite strategy, but it is at least a potentially justifiable one. So please, take your "fair-weather-fan" accusations elsewhere. I will be here in two years even if the Hawks are coyote-level cursed until then.
- TexasHawk

Outstanding post.

If the hawks pick between 8 and 15 Stan will pick Bode Wilde Dmen out of USNTDP. Take it to the bank he will reach and take a Mission kid. He knows him and many of the Mission coaches have Blackhawk connections . It will be a reach at 8-12.

While it is true that Forwards have responsibilities constant odd-man breaks are caused by over-aggressive Defenceman. Being over-aggressive does not just mean pinching deep and getting caught. It can occur at the opposing blue-line when a D-Men applies too much pressure to keep the puck in. This causes errors which happened with Murphy and Kempny last night. Go to the area of the ice that allows for the easy and safe control of the puck - if that results in the puck going outside the blue-line that’s the way it is. Better to be controlling the puck outside the blue-line to play another day rather than having it in your own net. Two totally and easily avoidable goals.

In spite of the fact that 2 over-aggressive goals had been scored against Ulf indicated in the intermission that he wanted his D-Men to be even more offensively aggressive. This is ridiculous. D-Men should be worried about defence first no matter where they are on the ice. Act offensively when it makes sense to do so and when it is safe to do so - pick your moments.

Compounding the over-aggressive play is weak non-physical play. The 3rd Ducks’ goal was also avoidable. Kempny was not hard enough on the puck behind and to the side of the net. You simply have to win these battles. Sad to say but many Hawks’ D-Men play as if there is a “no hitting” rule like there is in Women’s hockey.
- Z3Hawk

You have an over emphasis dislike and blame on Ulfie. When the other team scored or has a good opportunity, a good look you seemingly trace this always to Ulfie's system

That is pure folly. Players in any system whom do not execute are going to be shelved with the blame game. Young guys without enough NHL experience any system look bad and are scored upon at a much higher rate than anyone would care to see. Justin mentioned how Q has final say; .moreover, Justin breaks down the lack of congruence involved in merging two different tactical approaches.

Regular readers here should understand that until the defensemen perform better, it is the quality in the performance of the defenseman which is the greater issue. How soon/reasonable expectation do we hold for some of the highly rated prospects if they learn and practice more in the AHL? Rick mentioned 1-2 years as a guideline and try to pair a young guy with a veteran.

What I notice about your posts is that you observe keenly but just cannot get past your Ulfie distaste. I therefore just want to point out that many around the NHL and even in junior you see a determined effort to play with the quick react, mobile defense. And you might have noticed NHL playoff rosters last few years included late adds for an extra mail carrier or puck mover even knowing the said dman is really never known to be, overall, good OR several green dmen straight from junior or collegiate are employed.

Ottawa and Boston both sent their first round dmen with no NHL experience into the playoff trenches. McAvoy and Chabot represented the fast quick dmen style Ulfie preaches. I can offer up Matheson from Florida, another first round late season add but I am not as familiar how offensive capable he has proven to be.

Tell you what, Z3Hawk, why don't you think about and rank whom you prefer to see here next year in third pair and depth roles among these guys (admittingly aware that one or more will be jettisoned before the puck drops next season and that Snuggerud may join the ranks of third pair competition):

Kempny, Gustafsson, Oesterle, Dahlstrom, Rutta.

I omit Murphy from your list as he is the one third pair fixture in my mind to pair with a quick puck mover offensive type.

I am not going to debate or challenge your preference. Snce you are a keen observer, let's see whom you like and whom you dislike even more.

If the hawks pick between 8 and 15 Stan will pick Bode Wilde Dmen out of USNTDP. Take it to the bank he will reach and take a Mission kid. He knows him and many of the Mission coaches have Blackhawk connections . It will be a reach at 8-12.
- Rayipsd

I'm optimistic that Stanley Bowman is working as a Shift Manager at Walmart by Draft Day. His 3 year track record is atrocious, and a direct causation for the Hawks going from First to Worst in a hurry. He should be held accountable for his extremely poor job performance. From contracts at high $$ AND No Trade Clauses, to bad trades sending away high end young talent (Danault, Johns, Tuevo, Leddy), and now the ultimate bombs of trades with Panarin and Hjallmarsson for Saad, Forsberg and Murphy. Watch the Yotes trade Hjallmarsson for King's ransom in the next week and make StanBo look even more incompetent.

Q is not a miracle worker. There is a strong argument that the lack of execution and cohesion from the Hawks this year falls on Q and the coaching staff, but I'd argue that he has 5 dmen playing over their head and 2 AHL goalies....that makes it tough to win.

There is no place for that in this forum.
- riozzo

Chill out, i'm joking

Alright, I'll give this a shot. Although, I would like to reiterate that Duncan Keith is my favorite player from the outset. Keith in another jersey would be tough to see.

My logic for trading him is simple:
-Keith is great now; he provides value in excess of the monetary cost of his contract.

-Unfortunately, today's Blackhawks are not. I think they need a season or two of high picks that will play on entry-level contracts.

-This team also has more holes than one player can solve.

-Trading Keith will likely yield those high picks. Given a sufficiently attractive package, Keith may be a player the Hawks should consider moving.

-Keith is 34 now; he will be 36 in two seasons. At which point, his play will decline due to aging.

-Furthermore, under the current CBA, I do not think that contracts can be LTIR'ed between seasons. Therefore, the Hawks will be unable to capitalize on Hossa money during free agency.

-This limits the ways that the Blackhawks can improve their team to only the draft

-This LTIR situation will become a further problem if Crawford actually did suffer a career-ending injury.

Conclusion:
Collecting picks would appear to be at least a somewhat reasonable strategy. Moving old players, who will not be great for the Hawks next playoff run, would be a place to start.

Not my favorite strategy, but it is at least a potentially ing in a fantady lesgue is one. So please, take your "fair-weather-fan" accusations elsewhere. I will be here in two years even if the Hawks are coyote-level cursed until then.
- TexasHawk

The defense without Keith would be too much like an under water mortgage. I too wish we could move him but doing so is analogous to gutting the team at minimum the defense. Just not plausible when you have fans and a business enterprise to see remainig profitable. But in theory all gutting is fine for fantasy management.

I'm optimistic that Stanley Bowman is working as a Shift Manager at Walmart by Draft Day. His 3 year track record is atrocious, and a direct causation for the Hawks going from First to Worst in a hurry. He should be held accountable for his extremely poor job performance. From contracts at high $$ AND No Trade Clauses, to bad trades sending away high end young talent (Danault, Johns, Tuevo, Leddy), and now the ultimate bombs of trades with Panarin and Hjallmarsson for Saad, Forsberg and Murphy. Watch the Yotes trade Hjallmarsson for King's ransom in the next week and make StanBo look even more incompetent.

Q is not a miracle worker. There is a strong argument that the lack of execution and cohesion from the Hawks this year falls on Q and the coaching staff, but I'd argue that he has 5 dmen playing over their head and 2 AHL goalies....that makes it tough to win.
- EnzoD

Agree with everything you just said Hjallmarsson trade to me was worst than the saad for panrin trade bowman trades a top 3 d man for a 5 maybe 4th d man in league where mobility and skating are essential attributes needed in a d man and we got a statue that does not skate very well and at times makes poor decisions pinching in when should be staying in position plus sending hammer to ARZ was slap in the face to him should've went to a contender. Would you do saad for trouba straight up or d man like trouba young top 3 potential can skate hit shoot etc.. Any other d man come to mind if trading saad for one?

Chill out, i'm joking
- ObeseOprah

There is no place for that in this forum.

While it is true that Forwards have responsibilities constant odd-man breaks are caused by over-aggressive Defenceman. Being over-aggressive does not just mean pinching deep and getting caught. It can occur at the opposing blue-line when a D-Men applies too much pressure to keep the puck in. This causes errors which happened with Murphy and Kempny last night. Go to the area of the ice that allows for the easy and safe control of the puck - if that results in the puck going outside the blue-line that’s the way it is. Better to be controlling the puck outside the blue-line to play another day rather than having it in your own net. Two totally and easily avoidable goals.

In spite of the fact that 2 over-aggressive goals had been scored against Ulf indicated in the intermission that he wanted his D-Men to be even more offensively aggressive. This is ridiculous. D-Men should be worried about defence first no matter where they are on the ice. Act offensively when it makes sense to do so and when it is safe to do so - pick your moments.

Compounding the over-aggressive play is weak non-physical play. The 3rd Ducks’ goal was also avoidable. Kempny was not hard enough on the puck behind and to the side of the net. You simply have to win these battles. Sad to say but many Hawks’ D-Men play as if there is a “no hitting” rule like there is in Women’s hockey.
- Z3Hawk

Agreed - seen it time and again (even at my own really low level of play) ... even had a goalie on a team I was on threaten to quit in the middle of a game because of this ... to wit one of our D men complained the forwards were not getting back to backcheck...

which to me sounded like he wanted to not only be beat by guys from the other team but also by our own forwards as well... :D

Agree with everything you just said Hjallmarsson trade to me was worst than the saad for panrin trade bowman trades a top 3 d man for a 5 maybe 4th d man in league where mobility and skating are essential attributes needed in a d man and we got a statue that does not skate very well and at times makes poor decisions pinching in when should be staying in position plus sending hammer to ARZ was slap in the face to him should've went to a contender. Would you do saad for trouba straight up or d man like trouba young top 3 potential can skate hit shoot etc.. Any other d man come to mind if trading saad for one?
- Scott1977

With the way Saad has played this season, I don't think anyone wants that contract......

1st rounders Hayes (you know the story), McNeil and Danault, Hartman, Teuvo, Schmaltz, Jokiharju.

2nd Rounders when they didn't have a 1st Knott and Dinky.

Since they've never picked higher than 15 or 16 since Bowman's been GM, show me where the precedent's been set you keep talking about.

Hinostroza was a 6th rounder and he's a decent bottom 6 player. Perhaps Stan would have been better served picking more of a body type, big behemothy guy who'd never skate in the NHL, no?
- HawkintheD

I know he hasn't played an NHL game yet, but Sikura is also a 6th rounder yet he's arguably the Hawks most highly touted prospect.

The defense without Keith would be too much like an underwater mortgage. I too wish we could move him but doing so is analogous to gutting the team at minimum the defense. Just not plausible when you have fans and a business enterprise to see remaining profitable. But in theory all gutting is fine for fantasy management.
- jhawk59

Oh yes, taking the best player off of one of the league's worst defenses is a recipe for disaster. My only point was that suggesting the trade (pending the right return) was somewhat grounded in logic. If disaster is the goal, in order to retool with top picks, then you accept the disaster.

You are correct that it is a risk; I do not think it is at all ideal. If we had a GM who spoke frankly with the fans, maybe the fans would tolerate that a few bad years are part of the plan. The Hawks as an organization are surely well enough capitalized to handle a few down years. Additionally, the Hawks get TV money regardless of whether there are butts in the seats.

I agree with EnzoD. I have been calling for Stan to get the axe. Just think of the Timonen trade. Who give away two second round pick for a guy who is cooked. Stan does. Who trades Danualt and a 2nd round pick and gets Nothing back in return? Stan does. Look back at Stans trades and 75% of the time he has gotten toasted. Other GM's love him. The only way to breath life in this team for NEXT YEAR is for the hawks to get a top 4 pick. And Stan might screw that up. This team is going to be mediocre to bad for the next 6 years with Stan and MCego. And Mcego should be fired. He is a fraud. He approved all those contracts. He ran Dale out of town. And if anyone believes Dale could not have won a cup or 2 with the group he assembled think again. And if you believe Dale did not get the qualifying contract offers in in 2010. Think again. It was all Mcego. Just wait, in a hard cap league this organization is in trouble and the 31 other teams are looking forward to it. Because the hawks front office ( Stan and MCego are arrogant) So 6 years of mediocrity. Her it comes

I agree with EnzoD. I have been calling for Stan to get the axe. Just think of the Timonen trade. Who give away two second round pick for a guy who is cooked. Stan does. Who trades Danualt and a 2nd round pick and gets Nothing back in return? Stan does. Look back at Stans trades and 75% of the time he has gotten toasted. Other GM's love him. The only way to breath life in this team for NEXT YEAR is for the hawks to get a top 4 pick. And Stan might screw that up. This team is going to be mediocre to bad for the next 6 years with Stan and MCego. And Mcego should be fired. He is a fraud. He approved all those contracts. He ran Dale out of town. And if anyone believes Dale could not have won a cup or 2 with the group he assembled think again. And if you believe Dale did not get the qualifying contract offers in in 2010. Think again. It was all Mcego. Just wait, in a hard cap league this organization is in trouble and the 31 other teams are looking forward to it. Because the hawks front office ( Stan and MCego are arrogant) So 6 years of mediocrity. Her it comes
- Rayipsd

But I didn't want a cup or two, I wanted three (and hopefully more)

Now that we know Arizona is shopping OEL, anyone care to make an offer?

How about Saad and this year's 2nd? Stan won't feel like he lost the Panarin trade if he can land OEL when the dust settles.

Now that we know Arizona is shopping OEL, anyone care to make an offer?

How about Saad and this year's 2nd? Stan won't feel like he lost the Panarin trade if he can land OEL when the dust settles.
- Dieselhead

The Hawks don't have a second this year. I'd still pass, no need to sell Saad when his value is low.

The Hawks don't have a second this year. I'd still pass, no need to sell Saad when his value is low.
- DarthKane

Damn, did we give up that 2nd for Timmonen or Weiss?

He'd be a good fit on the Hawks, a solid centre to relieve some of the defensive pressure off Toews.

#TradeDeadline: #RedWings depth C Luke Glendening generating interest on market.

— NHL EXPERT PICKS (@NHLexpertpicks) February 16, 2018

Damn, did we give up that 2nd for Timmonen or Weiss?
- Dieselhead

Weiss, Montreal has the pick. Maybe Stan can trade Duclair to Montreal to get that 2nd back.