Weiss, Montreal has the pick. Maybe Stan can trade Duclair to Montreal to get that 2nd back.
- DarthKane

Bergy is one of the few GM's arguably worse at trading than Stan. But then again, Bergy learned the game from Stan...
And Montreal has a thing for french canadian players

Who are all the "old guys" the Hawks "have to move out"???

For years people cried Q doesn't like/doesn't play young guys. Well, this is what you get with a young team. Inconsistency even in game, let alone the season.

Keith and Seabrook are the only "old guys" in the team. And news flash, their still the best 2 Dmen on the team and the only ones that consistently make outlet passes take to tape.

So Keith only has 1g this year. So what. What should he have? 5? 7? He never was Brett Burns.

This is a lot like the team the year before Q got there, and then his first year. And he helped make that team into the dynasty they were. Can he do it again? We'll see. They are very young and need to learn to play together.

People don't like Q's system. The system that has him team (when they have continuity) able to play a speed game (Tampa in the Cup finals), a physical team (ANA the round before) or any style a team wants to bring - Q's "horrible system" had answers for everything. AND he owned other coaches/matchup.

Give this build another year. I am not a "corsi guy". At all. But numbers are numbers and there have been positives without the results. Losing Crawford killed this team, without a backup. Foreskin and Joe Glass shouldn't be a backup. Not impressed with either.

The only 2 d worth anything are the ones people want to move? Move them and I'm sure Q will gladly accept "being fired". And I'm sure Kane would follow right out the door.

The biggest things they need to add are 2 skill/puck moving defenceman that can put a pass on the tape consistently. Find that and a backup goalie and they may not be far off as some think.

OEL would be am intriguing puck up, IMO

If they wanted Sikura, Forsling, Fortin, Hartman, pick (not all but some combo)...he would be a very nice addition

It's going to be an interesting deadline. Even if they don't make a move, but to begin the ground work for the off season additions

Bergy is one of the few GM's arguably worse at trading than Stan. But then again, Bergy learned the game from Stan...
And Montreal has a thing for french canadian players
- Slofire94

Exactly. I mean, he got fleeced when he picked up Leddy for Cam Barker. Oduya was a bum pick up. Vermette. What about when he traded for those slugs Handzus and Desjardins?

Alright, I'll give this a shot. Although, I would like to reiterate that Duncan Keith is my favorite player from the outset. Keith in another jersey would be tough to see.

My logic for trading him is simple:
-Keith is great now; he provides value in excess of the monetary cost of his contract.

-Unfortunately, today's Blackhawks are not. I think they need a season or two of high picks that will play on entry-level contracts.

-This team also has more holes than one player can solve.

-Trading Keith will likely yield those high picks. Given a sufficiently attractive package, Keith may be a player the Hawks should consider moving.

-Keith is 34 now; he will be 36 in two seasons. At which point, his play will decline due to aging.

-Furthermore, under the current CBA, I do not think that contracts can be LTIR'ed between seasons. Therefore, the Hawks will be unable to capitalize on Hossa money during free agency.

-This limits the ways that the Blackhawks can improve their team to only the draft

-This LTIR situation will become a further problem if Crawford actually did suffer a career-ending injury.

Conclusion:
Collecting picks would appear to be at least a somewhat reasonable strategy. Moving old players, who will not be great for the Hawks next playoff run, would be a place to start.

Not my favorite strategy, but it is at least a potentially justifiable one. So please, take your "fair-weather-fan" accusations elsewhere. I will be here in two years even if the Hawks are coyote-level cursed until then.
- TexasHawk

Absolutely 100% Agreement. ..Well put.

Exactly. I mean, he got fleeced when he picked up Leddy for Cam Barker. Oduya was a bum pick up. Vermette. What about when he traded for those slugs Handzus and Desjardins?
- PatShart

Given his two latest failures in Panarin/Hjallmarsson, his negative trades outweigh his positives. All of us here are Hawks fans, and want the Hawks to succeed. You cannot argue with the results on the ice from the team he has assembled. Someone needs to be held accountable for this complete and embarrassing failure and rapid fall from Elite, to Dumpster Fire.

Who are all the "old guys" the Hawks "have to move out"???

For years people cried Q doesn't like/doesn't play young guys. Well, this is what you get with a young team. Inconsistency even in game, let alone the season.

Keith and Seabrook are the only "old guys" in the team. And news flash, their still the best 2 Dmen on the team and the only ones that consistently make outlet passes take to tape.

So Keith only has 1g this year. So what. What should he have? 5? 7? He never was Brett Burns.

This is a lot like the team the year before Q got there, and then his first year. And he helped make that team into the dynasty they were. Can he do it again? We'll see. They are very young and need to learn to play together.

People don't like Q's system. The system that has him team (when they have continuity) able to play a speed game (Tampa in the Cup finals), a physical team (ANA the round before) or any style a team wants to bring - Q's "horrible system" had answers for everything. AND he owned other coaches/matchup.

Give this build another year. I am not a "corsi guy". At all. But numbers are numbers and there have been positives without the results. Losing Crawford killed this team, without a backup. Foreskin and Joe Glass shouldn't be a backup. Not impressed with either.

The only 2 d worth anything are the ones people want to move? Move them and I'm sure Q will gladly accept "being fired". And I'm sure Kane would follow right out the door.

The biggest things they need to add are 2 skill/puck moving defenceman that can put a pass on the tape consistently. Find that and a backup goalie and they may not be far off as some think.

OEL would be am intriguing puck up, IMO

If they wanted Sikura, Forsling, Fortin, Hartman, pick (not all but some combo)...he would be a very nice addition

It's going to be an interesting deadline. Even if they don't make a move, but to begin the ground work for the off season additions
- PatShart

Have you watched Seabrook play this year? The only thing he has been consistent at is turnovers.

Given his two latest failures in Panarin/Hjallmarsson, his negative trades outweigh his positives. All of us here are Hawks fans, and want the Hawks to succeed. You cannot argue with the results on the ice from the team he has assembled. Someone needs to be held accountable for this complete and embarrassing failure and rapid fall from Elite, to Dumpster Fire.
- EnzoD

Well sure, I know you had the exact moment in time the Core would experience their fall from grace pinpointed on your calendar so why shouldn't Stan?

You've accurately been calling out the Captain for the last few years, but let's be honest, would you have predicted him losing his mojo at 27?

Pretty sure you were one of many who was on board when those trades (4, 72) were consummated. You gave me grief for claiming you and others were employing 20/20 hindsight when looking at trades and you're certainly employing it now.

I still like those trades in the log run but time may prove me wrong just like it did you in 2015 when you were calling the team a first round out.

Have you watched Seabrook play this year? The only thing he has been consistent at is turnovers.
- Dieselhead

Not only more turnovers (from both 2 + 7) than we have seen throughout their entire careers, but both 2 and especially 7 are getting beat with speed every game. Seabrook's inability to stay with his check cause issues for the 5 man defense group. It would be pretty sweet if someone like Toronto or Vegas took Seabrook off our hands. He will only get worse, as will Keith.

Also, the comparisons to 2012 need to stop. 2012 was SIX YEARS ago. The "Core" was six years younger and expecting some massive reawakening from 19 or 7 or 2 next season as they age into their 30s is just naive IMO. Father Time is undefeated.

People want to call Nick Leddy trash bc of his +/- rating, fine. If Nick Leddy is trash, OEL is a burning bag of dog poop on your front door with his -500 this year and less offensive production than Leddy. Where do the Hawks get the cap space to add OEL anyway?

Rapid decline in Keith and Seabrook....or xould it be they are playing with 3 AHL dmen in the lineup?

And Hjarllmarsson is broken down. Essentially they got Murphy and Duclair for Nik and Panik...which shaved about 1-2mil off the cap, and got younger - which "everybody wants"

And Saad has had a down year, no doubt. But us panarin in the top 30 in scoring either? What's he got..15g and he's gonna want more money? Is Columbus even in the playoffs?

With that trade, they got younger and a guy that goes to the net, as well as cost certainty.

If this team had panarin instead of Saad, would they be in the playoffs? If so, how would they resign him to the 7-8mil he's gonna want/get?

Well sure, I know you had the exact moment in time the Core would experience their fall from grace pinpointed on your calendar so why shouldn't Stan?

You've accurately been calling out the Captain for the last few years, but let's be honest, would you have predicted him losing his mojo at 27?

Pretty sure you were one of many who was on board when those trades (4, 72) were consummated. You gave me grief for claiming you and others were employing 20/20 hindsight when looking at trades and you're certainly employing it now.

I still like those trades in the log run but time may prove me wrong just like it did you in 2015 when you were calling the team a first round out.
- HawkintheD

I've admitted to liking the Saad trade both over the summer and the first week of the season. I've posted as much in recent weeks. The Hjallmarsson trade I didn't really have any opinion on as I had never watched Murphy play. After watching him this season, it's fair to say that was a big loss in talent. You want to point to "cost certainty" with both players acquired (Saad and Murphy). I'd say with certainty that the Hawks received significantly lesser players in Saad and Murphy, and that certainly has been a factor in this disastrous season. What good is "cost certainty" if both players do not perform nearly well enough in replacing Elite level players in Panarin + Hjallmarsson? It's looking like a Lottery Pick is a near certainty as a result.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you or I thought about either trade, or the contracts given out, or the no-trade clauses or the draft picks Bowman has made, or the movement of young talented players for no return. What matters is what Rocky Wirtz and John McDonagh think about this dogpoop roster Bowman has assembled and the insanely fast fall from the Top to the Bottom of the NHL.

You want to hold Bowman in high regard as some genius for adding a few depth players over the years or the 2 draft picks in 10 years that he's hit on, that is your right. I'd argue that there is a much stronger case to be made that his drafting, contract extensions, trading, and overall management of the roster has been fair at best up until this season where it has completely imploded into miserable failure. There are 30 games left and we are cheering for them to lose as they near the bottom on the NHL on an 8 game losing streak. Stan Bowman is the guy who created this roster, and this roster is a piece of trash that appears to be trending in the wrong direction with a bunch of 30+ guys with big cap hits, underproduction, and no trade clauses. There needs to be accountability for this mess, and you can't fire the entire team. Bowman needs to go IMO, and you can agree or disagree with me, as that is your right and the reason we come here to talk hockey....debate and discussion.

Have you watched Seabrook play this year? The only thing he has been consistent at is turnovers.
- Dieselhead

He's the best outlet passer on their blue line.

A big reason the offense looks like it does is because the triple threat of idiots Kempny, Gustafsson and Oesterle can't hit an outlet pass consistently an/or pinch at the absolute most asinine times.

So yeah, Seabrook has to dp a lot more chasing this year. No doubt hes lost a step which makes it look even worse

He's the best outlet passer on their blue line.

A big reason the offense looks like it does is because the triple threat of idiots Kempny, Gustafsson and Oesterle can't hit an outlet pass consistently an/or pinch at the absolute most asinine times.

So yeah, Seabrook has to dp a lot more chasing this year. No doubt hes lost a step which makes it look even worse
- PatShart

Who's fault is it that the Hawks have 3 NHL caliber defenseman on the roster? I'll wait StanBo apologists.....

Lol...savior panarin has 1 more goal than bad year Saad

Must not have any escalators in his contract this year

Trades cannot be looked at in a vacuum

This season, we traded:
2 years of Hammer @4.1M
2 years of Panarin@6M
2 years of Panik @2.8M
Tyler Mott (ELC)

For:
4 years of Saad@6M
5 years of [email protected]
Duclair 1.2M (RFA)
Clendening (AHL)
Forsberg (ELC)
~1.75M cap space
Top 10 lottery pick

If we strike gold with the top 10 lottery pick,
Toews regains his form
Seabrook hits the gym
etc etc
We might be able to extend our contender window. Might.

QUIT talking about getting OEL. The guy is a UFA after next year and is 5.5 against the Cap and will probably be banking 8 per in two years. The Hawks are already over maxed on the cap. Move on.

Who's fault is it that the Hawks have 3 NHL caliber defenseman on the roster? I'll wait StanBo apologists.....
- EnzoD

8-9years of being the best team in the league, 3 cups, draft low, deadline trades...yeah...the cupboard is a bit bare on the blue line

8-9years of being the best team in the league, 3 cups, draft low, deadline trades...yeah...the cupboard is a bit bare on the blue line
- PatShart

It never was full to begin with horrible drafting of defenseman and goalies and developing them forwards aren't much better only 3 top smaltz dcat and saad all other forwards with the exception of fortin not drafted invite to camp and. Skikar excuse the spelling, are projected bottom six forwards or ahl lifers. And who makes the final decision when drafting bowman so who is to blame bowman and scouting staff.

Who are all the "old guys" the Hawks "have to move out"???

For years people cried Q doesn't like/doesn't play young guys. Well, this is what you get with a young team. Inconsistency even in game, let alone the season.

Keith and Seabrook are the only "old guys" in the team. And news flash, their still the best 2 Dmen on the team and the only ones that consistently make outlet passes take to tape.

So Keith only has 1g this year. So what. What should he have? 5? 7? He never was Brett Burns.

This is a lot like the team the year before Q got there, and then his first year. And he helped make that team into the dynasty they were. Can he do it again? We'll see. They are very young and need to learn to play together.

People don't like Q's system. The system that has him team (when they have continuity) able to play a speed game (Tampa in the Cup finals), a physical team (ANA the round before) or any style a team wants to bring - Q's "horrible system" had answers for everything. AND he owned other coaches/matchup.

Give this build another year. I am not a "corsi guy". At all. But numbers are numbers and there have been positives without the results. Losing Crawford killed this team, without a backup. Foreskin and Joe Glass shouldn't be a backup. Not impressed with either.

The only 2 d worth anything are the ones people want to move? Move them and I'm sure Q will gladly accept "being fired". And I'm sure Kane would follow right out the door.

The biggest things they need to add are 2 skill/puck moving defenceman that can put a pass on the tape consistently. Find that and a backup goalie and they may not be far off as some think.

OEL would be am intriguing puck up, IMO

If they wanted Sikura, Forsling, Fortin, Hartman, pick (not all but some combo)...he would be a very nice addition

It's going to be an interesting deadline. Even if they don't make a move, but to begin the ground work for the off season additions
- PatShart

Agree with you that the Hawks’ two best D are still Keith and Seabrook. It is neither of their faults that they are forced to partner with everyone but each other. Each has to constantly cover for their partners. Makes no sense as Keith needs a “protector” so he can play his rover role.

Where I differ with you is with respect to the system in place this year. This is not the system that Q ever played. Q has always played a good defence first system which leads to good offence. D joined the rush/pinched/offensively pressured only when it made sense to do so, when it was safe to do so. D attempted to chip in offensively in an opportunistic way.

This year’s system which is Ulf’s system calls for offensive pressure all the time. It is why the D are always pinching and offensively pressuring, This system is ludicrous. It is directly responsible for scores of blown leads and losses due to the insane amount of odd-man breaks and goals against. The D are constantly out of position and it is by freakin’ design. Other teams scouting the Hawks just say play safe and wait for the Hawks to make mistakes. Happens game after game after game.

I've admitted to liking the Saad trade both over the summer and the first week of the season. I've posted as much in recent weeks. The Hjallmarsson trade I didn't really have any opinion on as I had never watched Murphy play. After watching him this season, it's fair to say that was a big loss in talent. You want to point to "cost certainty" with both players acquired (Saad and Murphy). I'd say with certainty that the Hawks received significantly lesser players in Saad and Murphy, and that certainly has been a factor in this disastrous season. What good is "cost certainty" if both players do not perform nearly well enough in replacing Elite level players in Panarin + Hjallmarsson? It's looking like a Lottery Pick is a near certainty as a result.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you or I thought about either trade, or the contracts given out, or the no-trade clauses or the draft picks Bowman has made, or the movement of young talented players for no return. What matters is what Rocky Wirtz and John McDonagh think about this dogpoop roster Bowman has assembled and the insanely fast fall from the Top to the Bottom of the NHL.

You want to hold Bowman in high regard as some genius for adding a few depth players over the years or the 2 draft picks in 10 years that he's hit on, that is your right. I'd argue that there is a much stronger case to be made that his drafting, contract extensions, trading, and overall management of the roster has been fair at best up until this season where it has completely imploded into miserable failure. There are 30 games left and we are cheering for them to lose as they near the bottom on the NHL on an 8 game losing streak. Stan Bowman is the guy who created this roster, and this roster is a piece of trash that appears to be trending in the wrong direction with a bunch of 30+ guys with big cap hits, underproduction, and no trade clauses. There needs to be accountability for this mess, and you can't fire the entire team. Bowman needs to go IMO, and you can agree or disagree with me, as that is your right and the reason we come here to talk hockey....debate and discussion.
- EnzoD

Which is what I've done. Fire Q. It's a team game, but apparently rounding out a team is yeoman's work and anyone can do it.

Yes the Core was in place but he could have easily decided to blow it all up after the first round failures in 2011 and 2012 like many of the board geniuses here were in favor of (to some extent myself included).

He identified the Core and filled in a lot of the missing pieces around it. They won two Cups. You don't want to give him any credit that's your prerogative. This whole thing was predicated on the Core being the Core. I'm not sure Nostradamus could have called 60-80% of them falling into the crapper collectively.

So he's only hit on two draft picks? Whether they are in Hawk uniforms or not his draft record has been pretty solid in the first round without a pick higher than 15. McNeil is really the only one the team whiffed on. But whatever, you've got your opinion which like mine you're welcome too. I don't deny he's whiffed on some trades and contracts but at least try to provide some context as opposed to some of the over the top reactionary garbage I read here on occasion.

It never was full to begin with horrible drafting of defenseman and goalies and developing them forwards aren't much better only 3 top smaltz dcat and saad all other forwards with the exception of fortin not drafted invite to camp and. Skikar excuse the spelling, are projected bottom six forwards or ahl lifers. And who makes the final decision when drafting bowman so who is to blame bowman and scouting staff.
- Scott1977

I have no idea what I just read

Trades cannot be looked at in a vacuum

This season, we traded:
2 years of Hammer @4.1M
2 years of Panarin@6M
2 years of Panik @2.8M
Tyler Mott (ELC)

For:
4 years of Saad@6M
5 years of [email protected]
Duclair 1.2M (RFA)
Clendening (AHL)
Forsberg (ELC)
~1.75M cap space
Top 10 lottery pick

If we strike gold with the top 10 lottery pick,
Toews regains his form
Seabrook hits the gym
etc etc
We might be able to extend our contender window. Might.
- Slofire94

Seabrook hits the gym?

You're better off going to his house and assembling a Bo-Flex for him and dangle a Big Mac in front of him for every 10 reps.

Lol...savior panarin has 1 more goal than bad year Saad

Must not have any escalators in his contract this year
- PatShart

hawks history.

Trading Panarin was the second worst trade in Blackhawks history.
Panarin has 46 points in 57 games. Saad has 25 points in 58 games. Panarin is very close to doubling what Saad has done. That is the standard of how players production is measured on this planet not just goals alone. If you think the Hawks don't need those extra points this season you have a singularly poor understanding of how NHL hockey works. Not only that but with Panarin we were in first place and without Panarin we are in last place and that is a stone cold fact buddy. Live with it.

hawks history.

Trading Panarin was the second worst trade in Blackhawks history.
Panarin has 46 points in 57 games. Saad has 25 points in 58 games. Panarin is very close to doubling what Saad has done. That is the standard of how players production is measured on this planet not just goals alone. If you think the Hawks don't need those extra points this season you have a singularly poor understanding of how NHL hockey works. Not only that but with Panarin we were in first place and without Panarin we are in last place and that is a stone cold fact buddy. Live with it.
- Savoy

Just curious. In your opinion what was the first? I have a few that qualify as worse but JMO.

Also, say your guy elevated the Hawks to a playoff caliber team, do you think the result would have been different than last year? I mean clearly, he showed he was a difference maker in the playoffs, no?

hawks history.

Trading Panarin was the second worst trade in Blackhawks history.
Panarin has 46 points in 57 games. Saad has 25 points in 58 games. Panarin is very close to doubling what Saad has done. That is the standard of how players production is measured on this planet not just goals alone. If you think the Hawks don't need those extra points this season you have a singularly poor understanding of how NHL hockey works. Not only that but with Panarin we were in first place and without Panarin we are in last place and that is a stone cold fact buddy. Live with it.
- Savoy

And in what playoff spot does Wayne Panarin have the blue jackets in?

I can’t believe how lucky the Ducks were that Manson/ Cogs / Kes all didn’t get at least 2 each & Josh didn’t get 10 along with it ... and how did Hartman get 2 exactly for a perfect hit .... then Ritchie obliterated Brandon along the boards & Hawks go offside ?? 4 on 2 ...

Kase / Rico- what a trade by Murray / Gibson
Thank goodness for them...
- dozerD10

"ace" ref wes Mcaully....aledgedly the the best ref in the league...he misses..

cogs coming in high with his stick...and this jerk is just coming off a suspension...

this is why nhl game and officials get the deservedly bad reputation...all 3 should have gotten unsportsmanlike minors with manson getting getting a 5 or 10...

league has stop this poop...esp 2 or 3 guys mugging another...

there is no team i continue to despise more over the last 5-6 years than the anaheim "punks" from asshat perry to the worthless thug female doga..

i am thrilled to see them lose year after year and gag on those contracts of perry, getzlaf and kesler...