belcherbd
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Nanaimo Joined: 02.16.2007
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My issue with them coming back is management. Management will feel that they owe the twins an opportunity to compete, and we’ll see more Gagne, more Vanek, more Sutter etc.
As far as who can replace those points? If you stuck with it Baertschi could be a 50 point player, and make us just as angry about his play. Gagne is another guy who makes terrible decisions in his own end, but could thrive on PP1. Would the team be better? No, probably not. But is being better the most important goal for next season? - 1970vintage
I agree with the bolded but don't think Sven can hit 50 if not playing with Bo or Boeser. |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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Okay so if Boeser and Horvat replace the Sedins 100 points who replaces Horvat and Boeser's 120 points?
I'm torn on whether I want to see the Sedins back but that wasn't the conversation, it was center on the argument "who is going to replace their points". - belcherbd
The argument is that Bo/Brock put up even more points with those zone starts and also allow less goals than the Sedins. That means you dont need as much production from the “Bo/Brock replacements” to break even. And you get younger.
Or
Brock/Bo play the same zone starts and young guys who are less established like EP or Guadette paired with one dimensional vets like Gagner get the soft Sedin zone starts like what AV did with Hodgson. |
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Eldebrink
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Port Compton, BC Joined: 08.18.2016
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I think it's time for the team to form a new identity. That's not going to be possible as long as the twins are on this team. I also think there needs to be a conversation with Eriksson on how he will/won't fit in over the next two years before he can be moved. Move Tanev at the draft, trade Edler at next years TDL. Sign a couple of reasonable stop-gaps. Start the rebuild. - VanHockeyGuy
Call me crazy but maybe LE and EP develope great chemistry next year and LE gets back to past projected point totals.
#FantasyMondays |
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dbot
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Auckland -Burn it all down Joined: 10.22.2008
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Call me crazy but maybe LE and EP develope great chemistry next year and LE gets back to past projected point totals.
#FantasyMondays - Eldebrink
#respectyourelders. |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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I have a difficult time assuming any players on this roster would allow as many 5v5 goals as the Sedins do with their zone starts. So even if their “replacements” score less with similar usage, they can make up for it by not being atrocious defensively. |
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belcherbd
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Nanaimo Joined: 02.16.2007
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Loui Eriksson and Elias Petterson?
*ducks for cover. - dbot
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belcherbd
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Nanaimo Joined: 02.16.2007
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The argument is that Bo/Brock put up even more points with those zone starts and also allow less goals than the Sedins. That means you dont need as much production from the “Bo/Brock replacements” to break even. And you get younger.
Or
Brock/Bo play the same zone starts and young guys who are less established like EP or Guadette paired with one dimensional vets like Gagner get the soft Sedin zone starts like what AV did with Hodgson. - Nucker101
Even with the zone starts, I don't see any of the current players hitting 50. I hope I'm wrong.
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dbot
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Auckland -Burn it all down Joined: 10.22.2008
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Poll question (full disclosure - not a real poll)
Assuming Demko is not slotted in as a backup next year, because our defence is suspect and will likely be just as suspect next year.
Assuming we somehow get rid of either of the current Swedish meatballs.
Who would you go for as a UFA goalie??
Bernier?
Lehner?
Ward?
Hellebuyck??
Raanta??
Other smart azz answer? |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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Even with the zone starts, I don't see any of the current players hitting 50. I hope I'm wrong. - belcherbd
That’s the thing though.
If Sven puts up 45 points with 70% o-zone starts + PP1 time with Brock/Bo, he just needs to allow 5 less goals to meet the Sedins production.
It’s almlst impossible not to be better than the Sedins defensively so you don’t have to be as good offensively to meet their value. |
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chompsey
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Cody Hodgson can walk on water Joined: 10.04.2005
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Yeah, I think it's a case for him underrating him last year and now trying to convince himself that he wasn't wrong lol. I'd have more respect for him if he ranked him where he should've been ranked and admitted it. I don't think he hates the Canucks. He liked the Juolevi pick and I remember him saying the Lockwood pick was solid.
He says that Backstrom is the last comparable player due to age.
Backstrom put up 40 points in 45 games
Pettersson put up 56 points in 44 games
Backstrom played on a worse team, but I don't think that makes up for those 16 points in one less game lol. And even if EP becomes Backstrom 2.0, that's a #1 C lol.
He really has no argument for not ranking EP higher. - Nucker101
Pronman is an idiot - Peter Forsberg was 4 months OLDER when he scored 48 pts in 39 games and Kent Nilsson was 2.5 months OLDER when scored his 53 pts in an era when hockey was more wide open.
EP was only 11 days OLDER than Backstrom - Pronman can suck it - his hating is pathetic.... |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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Pronman is an idiot - Peter Forsberg was 4 months OLDER when he scored 48 pts in 39 games and Kent Nilsson was 2.5 months OLDER when scored his 53 pts in an era when hockey was more wide open.
EP was only 11 days OLDER than Backstrom - Pronman can suck it - his hating is pathetic.... - chompsey
Yeah, his pre-draft evaluation was wrong and now he’s resorting to straw man arguments.
He’s had some good calls in the past as well so I think it’s unfair to write him off completely but his stubbornness is something to keep in mind when viewing his rankings in the future.
I do think it’s fair to have concerns about EP transitioning to the N/A game, but his production this season was insane so even with those concerns, you have to rank him higher than where Pronman has. |
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belcherbd
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Nanaimo Joined: 02.16.2007
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That’s the thing though.
If Sven puts up 45 points with 70% o-zone starts + PP1 time with Brock/Bo, he just needs to allow 5 less goals to meet the Sedins production.
It’s almlst impossible not to be better than the Sedins defensively so you don’t have to be as good offensively to meet their value. - Nucker101
Sven would have to put up 90 points to replace Danny's contribution. He was already putting up 40. |
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chompsey
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Cody Hodgson can walk on water Joined: 10.04.2005
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Yeah, his pre-draft evaluation was wrong and now he’s resorting to straw man arguments.
He’s had some good calls in the past as well so I think it’s unfair to write him off completely but his stubbornness is something to keep in mind when viewing his rankings in the future. - Nucker101
No kidding. I'm to put my Canuck-colored glasses aside but damn, EP's season is nothing short of AMAZING. He carried that team. Without him, I doubt that they are as good as they are.
Sad to see the stubbornness.... |
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neem55
Vancouver Canucks |
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Joined: 02.02.2012
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Sven would have to put up 90 points to replace Danny's contribution. He was already putting up 40. - belcherbd
That's not quite how replacement works. |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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Sven would have to put up 90 points to replace Danny's contribution. He was already putting up 40. - belcherbd
weird way to look at it lol
A player is going to get Sven’s spot no? Sven got 2nd line minutes for most of this season + 2nd unit PP time. I’d assume his replacement will put up more than 0 points lol.
And again, the Sedins are atrocious defensively at 5v5. Just by them leaving this team is already better defensively by default. Assuming they won’t be replaced by a guy like Vanek.
I feel like we’re going in circles here, my point is that the Canucks don’t have to match the offense lost by the Sedins leaving in order to replace their value due to their terrible defensive play.
Also, almost any somewhat decent player will score points with top 6 5v5 mins + 70% O Zone Starts + PP1 with Bo/Brock
It’d be hard not to put up points in those minutes |
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CanuckDon
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Las Vegas Joined: 08.05.2014
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I have a difficult time assuming any players on this roster would allow as many 5v5 goals as the Sedins do with their zone starts. So even if their “replacements” score less with similar usage, they can make up for it by not being atrocious defensively. - Nucker101
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Retinalz
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 01.31.2015
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Poll question (full disclosure - not a real poll)
Assuming Demko is not slotted in as a backup next year, because our defence is suspect and will likely be just as suspect next year.
Assuming we somehow get rid of either of the current Swedish meatballs.
Who would you go for as a UFA goalie??
Bernier?
Lehner?
Ward?
Hellebuyck??
Raanta??
Other smart azz answer? - dbot
Lehner is an RFA so i doubt they let him go for nothing. He is not as bad as he has been on a terrible Buffalo team. I would either go for Raanta if he is not re-signed, or I would trade Marky for Lehner and a small +. |
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Retinalz
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 01.31.2015
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weird way to look at it lol
A player is going to get Sven’s spot no? Sven got 2nd line minutes for most of this season + 2nd unit PP time. I’d assume his replacement will put up more than 0 points lol.
And again, the Sedins are atrocious defensively at 5v5. Just by them leaving this team is already better defensively by default. Assuming they won’t be replaced by a guy like Vanek.
I feel like we’re going in circles here, my point is that the Canucks don’t have to match the offense lost by the Sedins leaving in order to replace their value due to their terrible defensive play.
Also, almost any somewhat decent player will score points with top 6 5v5 mins + 70% O Zone Starts + PP1 with Bo/Brock
It’d be hard not to put up points in those minutes - Nucker101
I think you could get a UFA or two on one year deals(witht he idea to trade them) that will have better numbers than the twins. As long as they have speed and a good defensive game they will get a good return at the TDL. |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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Lehner is an RFA so i doubt they let him go for nothing. He is not as bad as he has been on a terrible Buffalo team. I would either go for Raanta if he is not re-signed, or I would trade Marky for Lehner and a small +. - Retinalz
Lehner and Mrazek need expensive qualifying offers(4M+) to retain RFA status, likely more $ than what they’d get as UFA’s so either of them could hit the open market. Potentially both unless they re-sign for cheaper before July 1st.
I like the idea of giving Raanta a shot, he’s not bad but he’s injury prone. Demko can potentially play a couple of games when Raanta gets injured as well.
I don’t think Nilsson will generate much interest this summer so unless Markstrom is traded, I’m not expecting a goalie to be signed. |
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Retinalz
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 01.31.2015
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SNet just showed Hank has a 51 game goal drought
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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SNet just showed Hank has a 51 game goal drought - Retinalz
That’s amazing.
I think Thornton had one like that last year as well. It was definitely at least 30+ games.
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belcherbd
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Nanaimo Joined: 02.16.2007
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weird way to look at it lol
A player is going to get Sven’s spot no? Sven got 2nd line minutes for most of this season + 2nd unit PP time. I’d assume his replacement will put up more than 0 points lol.
And again, the Sedins are atrocious defensively at 5v5. Just by them leaving this team is already better defensively by default. Assuming they won’t be replaced by a guy like Vanek.
I feel like we’re going in circles here, my point is that the Canucks don’t have to match the offense lost by the Sedins leaving in order to replace their value due to their terrible defensive play. - Nucker101
Sven's replacement will get points, absolutely but whoever is going to create that offence won't be playing with Horvat or Boeser or the Sedins.
I understand what you are saying about the defensive play and while they are some of the worst on the team, the rest of the team isn't that much better. Their replacement might only move the needle a bit in net goals.
Anyways definitely going around in circles.
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CanuckDon
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Las Vegas Joined: 08.05.2014
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Poll question (full disclosure - not a real poll)
Assuming Demko is not slotted in as a backup next year, because our defence is suspect and will likely be just as suspect next year.
Assuming we somehow get rid of either of the current Swedish meatballs.
Who would you go for as a UFA goalie??
Bernier?
Lehner?
Ward?
Hellebuyck??
Raanta??
Other smart azz answer? - dbot
why sign anyone? The team will suck again so they mine as well stick with the current tandem as they are both signed. Dump Nilsson at the TDL for anything and bring up Demko then. |
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Nucker101
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 09.26.2010
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why sign anyone? The team will suck again so they mine as well stick with the current tandem as they are both signed. Dump Nilsson at the TDL for anything and bring up Demko then. - CanuckDon
Agreed |
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Okay so if Boeser and Horvat replace the Sedins 100 points who replaces Horvat and Boeser's 120 points?
I'm torn on whether I want to see the Sedins back but that wasn't the conversation, it was center on the argument "who is going to replace their points". - belcherbd
What about the 100 pts they give up? How do you know someone else can't put up numbers if you don't try something else? Make a couple of trades find better players than the current roster.
We have finished bottom of the league 4 of 5 years. Try something new. What's the worst that can happen |
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